carolyn

THERE IS NOT UNDENIABLE PROOF THAT BUSH KEPT INFORMATION FROM ANYONE. This is simply BS that was started by the same Democrats that tried to impeach him when they found out that too many people were against going into Iraq after they had v**ed for this action. They simply tried to get out of a sticky situation by their usual tried and true method...LYING.

3jack

Speaking of lying....There was never any effort to impeach Bush.

carolyn

Oh, there was an attempt to impeach Bush, but when the Atty. General informed them they could not legally do so without implicating themselves, they dropped the idea like a hot potato because it would have been brought out that they had indeed v**ed to go into Iraq. Then when they tried to say that he withheld information from them concerning the lack of WMD, they also ran into a brick wall because it was proven that they had had the same CIA information that Bush had been going by, so the charges were never filed.

This all boils down to the fact that they were going to try and pass the buck to Bush and get back in favor with their constituents. But isn't this a typical Democrat maneuver?

poppabear42

Carolyn;
If you can't bring yourself to accept the fact that bush, and his cronies have committed treasonous acts.
I really can't believe that you would know treason if you saw it, so if you are just a bush lover, all I have for you is sympathy.
The very last thing a bush supporter should bring up is the word treason.
All it does for me is bring back a flood of memories, like him telling congress, that if they did not give him the money for the war, that they were not really supporting the "The troops."
If nobody supported his war, but his dog, and his wife, he didn't give a damn, because he was going to invade Iraq.
And his most sickening act was when he stood on that aircraft carrier declaring "Mission accomplished."
That was definite proof to me, that he didn't have a clue as to the severity of kicking the lid off of the "Pandora's box" that he had created.
Did he care, hell no, because he didn't, as he had said, give a damn.
Well I wish, as the saying goes, that was the end of the story.
But even you know better than that, because shortly thereafter, the body bags started flowing in, and the horror stories started being told, they weren't pretty stories, but they were real.
By now everybody, but bush, and people like you, started to wake up to the fact that they had been totally, and with malice, and knowingly lied to.
As you know, they tore up that country looking for WMD's, that certain people knew for a fact were never there in the firs place.
Thousands of lives were lost, and people maimed on both sides. Looking for "WMD's that were going to cause the big "Mushroom Cloud" that was going to destroy us, and a lot of other B/S.
Anyway, leave the president and his family alone, because he is still, to this very day, trying to clean up bush's mess.
And people are now trying blame President Obama. Be real, and face the t***h, bush created this mess.
And him, and that snake cheney did steal the money too.

carolyn

I am not saying that Bush did not commit treasonous acts. He did, especially when he met secretly, some 18 or 19 times, with the leaders of Canada and Mexico concerning the establishment of the NAU. This was illegal because the constitution states that a president has to have the v**e from 2/3 of the Senate to do this. And I want you to know that my husband and I signed petitions to impeach him on these charges.

But I never blamed him for going into Iraq because he was going by the same CIA info that the Senate was going by when he asked for their v**e and got it. If he had not tried to play by the crooked UN rules, he would have found the WMD too. But when they (the UN) ruled to give Saddam time and more time to get "ready" to accept the UN weapons inspectors, then would not allow them into certain areas for several more days, it all started to look "fishy" to us. Then later when the UN leader and several higher officials were caught up in the Oil for Food scandal, it was plain to my husband and I why the UN wanted to give Saddam time to hide his WMD.

It seems too many people have selective memories when they argue that he knew there were no WMD. They never seem to want to remember the satellite pictures shown on TV where the road to Syria was bumper to bumper with closed van trucks that the media said were people fleeing the possibility of war. But would an iota of common sense accept this as fact? Just how many of these poor people would drive a covered van truck to flee an impending war with? But how many covered van trucks would Saddam have at his disposal to take evidence to Syria, especially when some of the charges levied against him stated that he had mobile chemical labs in van trucks. And did they not finally accept that he did actually spirit his WMD into Syria? And have they not finally found these WMD in Syria?

Sheesh! Can't anyone put two and two together anymore? Is this not the common sense that I have been writing about all this time? Has the ability to use one's head a completely lost function anymore? Or is it just the fact that political parties would willingly sacrifice their country and freedom for the sake of their party?

poppabear42

Carolyn;
Wow! The only other time I was ever accused of having selective hearing, was when my wife accused me of being blessed with that ability.
Did you know that bush started the "Fast & furious" for guns program that went South on him too. You would have to ask issa why he tried to hang that on President Obama. And why was it an impeaching offense where the president was concerned, but not for bush?
Got a question for you...
Do you really think that if anyone on earth had found even remnants of WMD's, anyplace on this earth, or even the moon, that the news of the discovery would not have been plastered on every flat surface in the world? And fox news would have had airplanes with banners still flying overhead, bands playing, and angels would have been tooting their horns too.
Because bush would be able to say...See there, I told you!!!
Hell, he would have spent every dime of that money that he had conned out of congress, paying for news like that.
I do believe, that you totally think he was justified in invading Iraq, even when he had been told he was wrong.
That is why he made the remark that... did not give a damn whether anyone else agreed with him, or not, but his wife, and his dog...He was going to attack Iraq.
Even his own daddy told him not to do it, because it was not worth it. But that snake cheney kept cheering him on.
Also Colin Powell, the guy he put up to telling that lie in front of congress, and the world, he is a stone to the bone soldier, and bush knew he would do it, because his determination to follow orders is what made him such an exceptional soldier.
But when Powell finally learned the t***h, he dropped bush like the bad habit that he is.
But before he resigned, he told bush that we were not battle ready enough to take on a mission like that, and that much more training was needed to prepare our troops to handle the heat, and the sand.
So there were at least two people that had been there, and done that, when they were in Kuwait, he should have listened because there were a multitude of other warnings that he totally ignored. One of the warnings had to do with, being able to identify their enemy. But bush, and cheney did not care, because they knew that bush, and cheney did not have that to worry about anyway.
So, those are the things that I have heard over the years pertaining to that debacle. Nothing has happened that has changed my mind.
If someone would have drug at least one WMD out of Iraq. not now, but back then, some of those lies might have merit, but as of now, I just ain't buying it.
But, I definitely believe what you say is true, my views, and the angle that see things are different.
Oh yea, if Hussein had gotten rid of the WMD's, is that not what he was told to do?
Wh**ever, nothing that I have seen, or heard convinces me, that the terrible results that bush caused are worth the price that was paid, and he doggone, positively does not deserve the praise that is given to him.

carolyn

This is from www.the blaze.com/stories/2012/06/26/the-5-biggest-... But here are many more that has primarily the same information in case anyone wants to take the time to check.

Wide Receiver, the Bush era operation, was a gun smuggling interdiction effort that involved Phoenix based ATF agents working in conjunction WITH Mexican law enforcement. It was a Phoenix border operation only. They were trying to build a case against a violent group of Mexican drug smugglers and the Mexican drug cartel to discover who they were. Wide Receiver began in 2005, involved 400 weapons, and all the weapons had RFID trackers installed in them. The Mexican government was actively involved. The program ENDED in 2007 when the drug dealers discovered the trackers. NO LIVES WERE LOST!

Fast and Furious was begun in 2009 by the Obama administration and was an UNCONSTITUTIONAL effort to build a case against American gun dealers, American private gun owners, and the Second Amendment. The Mexican government WAS NOT INVOLVED IN FAST AND FURIOUS. Over 300 people were k**led, including two Americans. WIDE RECEIVER NO LONGER EXISTED. It had been shut down for two years. Fast and Furious involved over two thousand guns. The Obama administration did not care where these guns ended up. There were no tracking devices and no effort was made to track them. There was NO on-the-ground surveillance of the straw purchases. The guns were sold and then was allowed to walk across the border, and that was it. Four federal agencies were involved in as many as ten cities in five states. Fast and Furious was Obama's effort to gain false information to be used to introduce his gun control bill. He was thwarted once again by people in his organization whose conscience outweighed his crooked scheming.

So you see, when the candy-asses such as Carney that make up the Obama administration's propaganda force got up and lied about the F&F being an ongoing Wide Receiver operation, they also lied through their teeth. And I would not believe anything you say to defend your crook Obama because he has been proven to be a chronic liar that cannot help but lie. He would rather lie than tell the t***h when the t***h would help him more.

poppabear42

Carolyn;
I will check your check, because what sense would it make for Obama to try something that had already been a failure?
Obama does not want to take your gun, he just wants to be sure that you have the sense it takes to use the damned thing, and where to use it.
And if you need a fifty round clip to hunt with, you should take up the game of marbles, and use the gun for a paper weight.
I will get back with you on that border issue, as soon as I re-check my facts.

carolyn

It was not Obama's intention to even try and make Fast and Furious work to find the drug cartels. It was all but proven that his intention was to get more people behind his attempt to float his gun control bill. And it would have been proven if our great crooked AG had not covered his ass and thwarted any attempt at investigating this crooked scheme. Don't you remember the whistle blower and how he was so afraid for his life after he told all about Fast and Furious? And he did not come forward until the Border Patrolman was k**led by one of the guns used in Fast and Furious. At least we can say there was one involved in the scheme that had a conscience, can't we?

You are actually saying that Obama does not want to take our guns? That we do not need a multiple round clip for hunting? There I will agree with you. Even when I used to hunt with my husband, I did not need a clip that held 10 or more shells. But let me tell you something , Mr. Obama fan. The Second Amendment was not written about hunting. It was written to thwart Tyranny within our government and keep our freedom intact. And this is exactly what is happening right now. We are so close to losing our freedom that most people that have common sense enough can see the rust on the iron curtain already.

So if you no longer believe that freedom is sacred, then I advise you to move to Cuba or some other country where there is no individual freedom whatsoever.

Now you are even saying that Fast and Furious never happened? Because if you are you have to be the most brainwashed liberal on this website. Where were you when the media was blasting it all over the world? And where were you when investigators found that the way this plot was carried out there was no way they could possibly have kept track of these guns once they crossed the border. So you go ahead and believe that your man is honest and only has the good of the people at heart. I would rather be in a den of rattlesnakes that trust this crook as far as I could throw his Muslim ass.

Hungry Freaks

Actually, Fast & Furious was a bad idea when the Bush II adminitration started it in the mid-2000s. And Holder lost control of it shortly after being named AG.

Whoever came up with the lame brained idea of tracking firearms back through the cartels should have been fired. And whoever lost control of the weapons should also be fired, although what was one to expect.

Again, carrollyn, get your facts straight. Holder screwed up F&F, he didn't start it. And it was a dumb idea to begin with. Did they think he drug cartels were going to play mubbely peg with the weapons? No, they were going to use them to shot people.

You are right about high-capacity clips and so-called "assault" weapons, the word itself a figment of the Brady Bunch's imagination.

Why do I ned one? Because. I don't need anyone to understand why I need it, I want one because it's my right. Hunting? Not the point. Protection against tyranny-so we agree on something.

But i don't think that tyranny is here yet. And that matters little. The simple threat is reason enough.

During the Second World War, the Japanese mulled over an invasion of the US mainland. One general, who had gone to college here, said "NO! There will be a rifle behind every blade of grass."

carolyn

You really need to start all over again and read my original post. Bush's operation WAS NOT fast and Furious. It was "Operation Wide Receiver, was run in conjunction with Mexican Law Enforcement, and was a Phoenix border operation only. Operation Wide Receiver was started in 2005, involved 400 weapons, and had RFID trackers installed in them. Operation Wide Receiver ENDED, ENDED ENDED in 2007 when the drug dealers discovered the trackers. NO LIVES WERE LOST.

So you see, fast and Furious WAS NOT a continuation of Operation Wide Receiver. It was a plot dreamed up entirely by the OBAMA CARTEL to gain support for his gun control scheme that failed.

Now go back and re-read the post I made on the Fast and Furious snafu and you can, if you do so with an unclouded and open mind, see just how this plot was planned with intentions to blame President Bush in case of it's inevitable failure.

And did they not do just that? They would sell their own mothers to sex merchants to protect their own sorry asses.

rumitoid

Try re-reading everything you wrote, carolyn, from the opposite belief. Test it!

rhomin57 Loc: Far Northern CA.

I am one of President and Mrs. Bush's biggest Fans, believe me!
However, when the drug cartels found those chips, or wh**ever tracking devices that were in those guns, did they then give the guns back to the US?? Or did they just destroy the device and keep the guns.
Is that what you were referring to rumi?

Hungry Freaks

And they all fall under the supervision of "Project Gunrunner" operated by the AFT between 2006 and 2012. "Fast and Furious" wasn't even called that until a year after it started.

I know it hurts you brain, but try looking into how government para-military agencies do things. "Project Gunrunner" was the overall project that spawned names like "Operation Linebacker" or wh**ever until some point where they determined the people they were trying to catch were members of a car club, hence the name "Fast and Furious" after the car movies.

But it's still the same exact project as Project Gunrunner."

In Vietnam, we were always going out on "Operation Dewy Canyon" "Operation Dewy Canyon II" etc. It was all the same clusters crew, one blended into the other, no difference. The only one I could actually remember the name of his stated above. It made no difference.

That someone in the ATF screwed up is irrefutable. That you think this is some conspiracy to confiscate firearms from citizens here in the US directed from the highest levels of government is just part of your flaming paranoia. Just like everything else you post (Chief Muslim, ties to terrorism, etc.) Simply bulls**t.

carolyn

Officially, no. Unofficially, yes. When the one's that had signed the petition to impeach him found out through the AG that they could not do it because they had willingly signed off on the war, they then tried to come up with the BS that he lied to them to get to go to war, but this also proved to be BS because they had the same CIA information that Bush had, so once again they had to call in their alligators. But that was not a reason to stop them from blaming him for the war. If they had any proof whatsoever that he had lied to them, do you believe they would not have impeached him immediately? They were so adamant to blame him for starting the war and appeasing their constituents they would have grasped at any straw, no matter how small or flimsy, to get back into the good graces of their stupid constituents.