Zemirah wrote:
jay-are, Pardon me for interrupting this spiel from which you are deriving such deep and abiding pleasure, but you just unraveled your entire hypothesis with this one line of scripture which you inadvertently included: "The highway to hell is broad, and its gate is wide for the many who choose that way."
That was the point that refutes your continual drumbeat that man is a powerless dummy, a puppet, who has no say, no choice, man being powerless to accept or reject God, the "truth" you have so steadfastly insisted was true.
Do you see it, Jay-are? God, in His infinite wisdom, said: The highway to hell is broad and its gate is wide for the many who choose that way."
God doesn't choose they go to hell, they choose.
Now, please do continue with your endless rant; type out twelve or twenty more posts on the subject.
Do try to consider the inclusion of everything God covers on a matter, rather than only those which agree with your preconceived hypothesis,
I have said what I believe on the matter.
You may talk to the forum, talk to God, talk to yourself, talk.......
Have a blessed evening, at the commencement of your talk.
jay-are, Pardon me for interrupting this spiel fro... (
show quote)
Everybody is born cursed to be at enmity with God. That is the result of the sins of Adam and Eve. The only way to be restored to the original perfection that Adam was created with is for God to cause us to be born spiritually. In Adam's original state, he was able to choose between good and evil and he was able to communicate directly with God. After being cursed, he and all human descendants were cut off from God and were given a depraved nature that is only evil and only rejects God. Romans 3:10-18
10 As the Scriptures say,
No one is righteous not even one.
11 No one is truly wise; no one is seeking God.
12 All have turned away; all have become useless.
No one does good, not a single one.
13 Their talk is foul, like the stench from an open grave.
Their tongues are filled with lies.
Snake venom drips from their lips.
14 Their mouths are full of cursing and bitterness.
15 They rush to commit murder.
16 Destruction and misery always follow them.
17 They dont know where to find peace.
18 They have no fear of God at all.
All people are born initially with this depraved nature. To get to the kingdom of God, we must be born again spiritually. This is the only way to overcome the depraved nature that we are naturally cursed with. Jesus said, "you
must be born again."
Being born again is a choice that God makes about who He chooses to give spiritual life to. This is done by God on an individual basis, not a mass act to choose everybody. Examples of individuals who God chose in the Bible include, Jacob, John the Baptist, Saul of Tarsus, and the Eunuch, and of course all the prophets, and everybody else who is described as someone who loved God. Once we are born spiritually by God's choice, our ability to choose between good and evil is restored and our original depraved nature is replaced with a new nature. This new nature is capable of doing good and loving God, and choosing to believe and follow. So, yes, I agree that people are saved by choosing to believe and obey, and people go to destruction by their own choice, but, the only ones who will choose to believe and follow have been chosen by God to be born spiritually first. Some who God has chosen will choose destruction over eternal life, and all who God has not chosen will choose destruction over eternal life. Thus, the understanding I believe is again consistent, and not contradictory. Many will go to destruction and few will find the narrow way to eternal life. That agrees with what the Bible teaches and what Jesus Christ taught. My belief results in consistent Biblical teaching, while yours results in the Bible contradicting itself.
Finally, how do you refute the teaching of Romans 9:14-16?
14 Are we saying, then, that God was unfair? Of course not! 15 For God said to Moses,
I will show mercy to anyone I choose,
and I will show compassion to anyone I choose.
16 So it is God who decides to show mercy. We can neither choose it nor work for it.
Are you saying it is your choice to believe that God is unfair if He chooses who will be saved, instead of letting men choose for themselves whether they want to be saved or not?