Well, I don't know about *other* liberals, but *I* never made that assumption. Didn't you read what I wrote? I said a business covers EVERYTHING in the price of their product. Why in hell would that not include taxes?

Ya know, it's kind of irritating when people assume you are as stupid as they are. Just do me a favor and stop trying to tell me what *you* think *I* think. You're probably too hung up on your "Red Dawn" paranoias to even come close to understanding what I think.

No shit dumbass... We take people that come here only to feed their families and throw them in prison so private companies can get free labor out of them, while the taxpayers cover the cost of the prison. This is why it's sooo important to make immigration "illegal" for a large number of potential slaves, because that's all they have when they see a group of Mexicans that just want to work...

Did you steal anything?
No.
Did you kill anyone?
No.
Did you rape anyone?
No.
Well... you're here legally - so you're under arrest.

In Arizona, the recent "crack-down" immigration laws were strongly supported, in fact drafted by several private firms that use prison "rehabilitation" programs to get slave labor. It's sick and it's prejudiced dumbasses like you that go right along with the development of a predatory police state in this country.

http://www.npr.org/2010/10/28/130833741/prison-economics-help-drive-ariz-immigration-law

Yes, we know... you guys are hanging on tight to that word because it's all you got. Most of these people that you don't want in our country haven't done anything that we wouldn't do if we were in a similar situation. They just want to work so they can feed their families. They typically have two options... Take the job offered by an American business that wants to save money by hiring illegals and eat now or wait for the retarded federal bureaucracy to decide your fate and die of starvation in the meantime. It's what you call a no-brainer. And yet, here are all these American fatsoes that have never experienced a hard day in their entire protected lives calling them criminals for not following the law. A better person would say... ya know, we make up these laws AND we have the ability to grant them legal status - maybe we should.

BTW, I wanted to ask... How do you know this? How do you know all those immigrant business founders were legal? Even if they were, how do you know they weren't legalized AFTER getting here illegally?

It's not like illegal immigrants were never granted legal status before. During the famous potato famine in Ireland, 5 million Irish immigrants came here ILLEGALLY. Did you know that? They were also unwanted by the American "nativists" who felt those "dirty illegal Irish immigrants" were stealing their jobs. Here's where is gets interesting... Many of them were actually granted citizenship in exchange for votes during election years and ya know what? Out of this invasion of "dirty Irish job thieves" came a lot of business leaders and even presidents.

So - make them legal - problem solved. ;)


Well, I guess those who were BORN here need to be more competitive then. Sorry, I just don't buy into that birthright entitlement crap. You want a job? Work for it.

Dude... seriously? A business adds the cost of everything to the price of their product, unless they're complete idiots. When I was running my consulting firm in the 90's I had a client that I charged $1500/day for a month of service. That paid for the cost of my operation AND for my wife and I to take a nice vacation in Ireland. My client was happy to pay the price because I delivered what they needed and it was within their budget.

It's business - that's all I'm saying. Normal, everyday business. You guys are the ones all hot under the collar because the president is spending tax money on vacations - all I'm saying is that it's nothing out of the ordinary. What president doesn't spend tax money on vacations?

Trash talk? I'm just stating the obvious. I'm not saying there's anything wrong with it. It's just business. I guess between us, I'm the one who understands business.

Fooloish? You mean foolish? Why? Is the private business anti-trash talk squad going to come out and zap me with high prices?

Actually, the towel has been thrown in by those who let the corporations take over our government.


That pretty much describes all politically interested Americans, liberals and conservatives alike. Just swap out the names... Cloward-Piven applies to conservatives as much as it does liberals.


I know *I'm* not surprised.... We totally have no clue how to fix anything. Just look at this site... Everyone is so obsessed with politicians. We elect them, then get disappointed and want to recall them. We replace them with someone else, get disappointed and want to recall them again. If a factory had the same recall record for it's product line (and politicians ARE the product line of our election process) there would be some serious questions about how that factory operates.

The problem we can't fix by recalling politicians is the political system that provides us with such limited choices in the first place. If we want to fix things we have to understand more about the factory and stop spending so much time bitching about what it produces.

And this system has been like this for a long time BIGEAGLE... I hear a LOT of old people bitching about how this country has gone downhill because of the younger generation. That's a simple misunderstanding. The system is no more screwed up now than it was 30 years ago - in fact it's pretty much the same. The difference we are all feeling is that we are nearing the end of that systems sustainability.

Best analogy I can think of is a bad habit like smoking cigarettes. For generations we've been smoking away, having a great time, then all of a sudden we get cancer and now we're blaming everything around us for giving it to us. We don't think it's the cigarettes because we've been smoking them all this time and we never got cancer before... (seriously this is about how short-sighted most political thinking is - no exaggeration). So, this is what is happening... we are now suffering the eventual consequences of actions and non-actions taken by Americans going all the way back to WW2. I would say the younger generation has more right to blame us than we have to blame them.

Anyway... getting back to the main point... we can spend the rest of our lives electing and recalling politicians and it won't make any difference. You need to find another plan.

The other interesting thing about those numbers is that they reflect the number of people who's emotional hang ups about immigrants prevent them from understanding the realities of immigration.

90% of Republicans... figures.

Ridiculous. The whole point of granting these immigrants legal status is so they can start paying into the system. As far as I am concerned, if you pay into the system you should qualify for it's benefits. I used to work with a really good system programmer who made a LOT of money AND paid a *LOT* of tax, far more than the average American, and he is a resident alien, not a citizen. I would rather see him get benefits than some lazy born-in-the-USA, drop out.

Being born here shouldn't mean shit, because you can't control where you are born. There is no merit to being born. There are millions of lazy American-born people that don't DO anything but leach, which isn't surprising because they didn't have to do anything to be born here either. Immigrants on the other hand, are people who made the effort to get here. They tend to be more driven and indeed most of the successful Fortune 500 companies in this country were started by immigrants, or their immediate children.

Too bad we can't do an exchange... For every hard working immigrant we bring in, we kick a lazy American-born asshole out. The problem there of course is that no county would be willing to accept such a looser deal with us.

I'd rather pay for their vacation in Africa than a war in Iraq...

Besides, it's not like private business leaders don't do the same thing ALL THE TIME... and it's not like you don't pay for THAT when you spend money on their services or products. And if you work for a corporation, chances are there is an effort to limit your pay so that the executives on top can take their families out on expensive vacations. In the end, it amounts to being the same thing... it's what executives do.

This is a perfect example of why our founders established a supreme court to second guess the constitutional legitimacy of laws produced by a sometimes impulsive and ridiculous congress.

My hats off the the supreme court and to the notion of equality that they apparently still see as being critical to our nation.

I think the nation as a whole is finally getting over it's homophobia. Thank God, because we already have a lot to worry about without being scared of gay people.

LOL - awesome... That's what I love about the Jews, they're so practical.

I agree.

...well, I like Colin Powell too and even McCain, although I don't know WHAT he was thinking when he picked Betty Bimbo to run with him.

LOL... Here's what the article says...

"King expressed his belief that "over 80 percent of the mosques in this country are controlled by radical Imams."

and this, the only other reference to that number in the entire article...

"KING: The only real testimony we have on it is from Sheikh Kabbani who was a Muslim leader during the Clinton Administration, he testified back in 1999 and 2000 before the State Department that he thought over 80 percent of the mosques in this country are controlled by radical Imams."

So... two huffy old farts who "think" about 80% of the mosques in this country are controlled by radical Imams... Hmm... I'm willing to bet they are wrong.