Michigan's attorney general is asking federal prosecutors to open a criminal investigation into 16 Republicans who submitted false certificates stating they were the state's presidential electors despite Joe Biden's 154,000-vote victory in 2020.

Democrat Dana Nessel disclosed that her office has been evaluating charges for nearly a year but decided Thursday to refer the matter to the U.S. attorney's office in western Michigan.

Benson said she’s also shared information from her office with the House congressional inquiry into the January 6th insurrection. She said the effort to subvert the presidential election crossed state boundaries, which likely violates federal laws.

Representational democracy--a.k.a. politics as a solution to social and economic problems--has passed away. It did not die a natural death. Politics developed a cancer very early in life (circa the early 1800s), caused by wealth outweighing public opinion. This cancer spread slowly but metastasized in the past few decades, spreading to every nook and cranny of our society and economy as "democracy" devolved into an invitation-only auction of elections and political favors.

Politics might have had a fighting chance but three forces betrayed the nation and its citizenry.

1. The Federal Reserve transferred trillions of dollars of unearned wealth into the feeding troughs of the super-wealthy and corporations, vastly increasing the wealth the top 0.01% had to buy elections and favors. The Federal Reserve cloaked its treachery with jargon-- quantitative easing, stimulus, etc.--and then stabbed the nation's representational democracy in the back.

2. The Supreme Court betrayed the nation's representative democracy by labeling corporations buying elections and political favors a form of "free speech." (Please don't hurt yourself laughing too hard.) The Supreme Court's equating wealth buying elections and favors with individual citizens' sacrosanct right of free speech was a knife in the back of the nation and its citizenry.

3. The two political parties betrayed their traditional voter bases to kneel at the altar of corporate / elite wealth, wealth which bought elections and political favors. The Democrats, traditional champions of the workforce in the 20th century, abandoned workers in favor of serving their corporate masters, masking their betrayal with fine-sounding phrases.

The Republican Party, traditionally promoters of Big Business (Wall Street, banks, mega-corporations), had maintained a narrow but crucial interest in trust-busting (limiting monopolies) to defend free enterprise and small business from the predations of monopolies and cartels. Those days are long past; just as the Democratic Party tossed the working class overboard to the sharks, the Republican Party walked small business off the gangplank right into the voracious jaws of cartels and globalized, financialized corporate sharks.

These three betrayals of public trust and representational democracy caused the demise of politics as a solution to social and economic problems. "Politics" has been stripped to its essence: an invitation-only auction of elections and political favors. The price to watch from the rear of the auction is $1 million; to actually place a bid, the minimum is $10 million, but the winning bids are generally much higher.

(Lobbying, campaign contributions, bogus think-tanks, and philanthro-capitalist foundations are all part of the auction funding.)

Here's "politics" in America now: come with mega-millions or don't even bother to show up. Choose which "enemies list" you want to be on; there's not much choice. And don't forget to put a flower on the grave of representational democracy.


https://www.oftwominds.com/blogjan22/politics-dead1-22.html

The left is saying it is needed to preserve Democracy and save America from the Republicans and to give and preserve voting rights for everyone in America. Citizen or not. Those of us on the Right see it as the Federal Government taking control of all voting rights from the Constitution mandated States for themselves, and at the detriment of the Republicans. Serious charges from both sides. But what is the best solution?

So, how about a serious debate, no slurs or cheap shots, no Trump or biden, just common sense, and logic, and fairness for all. Just what should the law be and should it be up to the states within certain broad parameters Federally mandated.

The first issue is Voter I. D. And only voter I. D. and/or picture I. D.

All to often I hear from Democrats that blacks can't get I. D, and that would deprive them of a right to vote. And then the blacks themselves disprove that. Actually, they should be insulted by these whites that think they are so superior that they have to protect the poor blacks. Yes, there are a lot of blacks that aren't reaching the sky on the intellectual level, or to poor to get around to get an I. D. Well, there are probably more whites in that same position. They're poor and it happens to all the races. And yes, some are not to smart or educated. But from what I heard, the states that are demanding voter I. D. laws, already have them, or have options available for every citizen to get that voter I. D. for free. It is required in poorer countries then America.

The election judges have a right to know if the person seeking to vote is who they say they are. Sorry, but your word isn't good enough. This isn't even about being registered or not. Just who the hell are you.

Since everyone can get an I. D. there should be no excuse to not have one to vote. You need one for so damn many other things in life, it is almost impossible to get around without one.

Now as for picture I. D. Many people have the same name as a parent for example. If the parent was deceased, or otherwise unable to vote, or just doesn't want to vote, the son or daughter could flash an I. D. of the same name and just vote for them. Obviously not right and criminal. Just one example calling for picture I. D. Another example is personal. Every election I go to in Chicago, I flash them my drivers license and they actually refuset to look at it. They just want me to say my name, find it on the list, sign here and here is you ballot. Anyone could come in and identify as me, and if they had a copy of my signature just scribble anything similar to it and it would be accepted. They don't even look at it. But this is Chicago and they assume I'll vote Democrat so I'm acceptable. Probably the same in Republican areas.

Democrats, please disprove my analysis with reason, common sense and logic if you can. I'd really like to hear why you think picture I. D. or just I. D. is not necessary to vote. Remember, this is about you and your reasons. No long articles by some pundit or self professed authority or heavens of a politician. Your thoughts.

And if we can keep this to a civil discussion, maybe we can try another one in a day or two, like legal age to vote and why. Felons voting and why. Non citizens voting and why.

Logically Right

The left wants to maintain that the election was legitimate, no matter what. The conservatives, the right, want to make sure it is because it sure looks like it might not be legit, and would like to be honest when we look at countries like Russia and claim to be above them, with truly legit elections. But the fact of the matter is, most conservatives and most assuredly, most Russians and other countries, do not. They, using their common sense, like us, cannot accept the events of the previous election based upon previous elections. Even our rivals know when states violated our constitution, as if they don't know it as well as we do.

We, the left mainly, act as if others don't understand us from where we stand in front of them. Believe me, they do, they just don't want to be a country like the US. They have their reasons but still, they do not want to be like us nor do they believe as we do. They see us as hypocritical, that oligarchy and autocracy are preferred to our hypocrisy. They figure, at least they are honest. There is simply nothing honest about most of our politicians, especially the present day democraps.

It is the dishonestly of the left, the democraps, that is empowering Putin to feel like he can take eastern Ukraine unchallenged, and he is correct. The entire world looks at us now as hypocritical idiots. With Trump, like him or not, they knew that he was being honest with them and they didn't have to guess about what he was thinking or planning. He confronted them in their own dishonesty. They didn't like it but they did respect it, like it or not. As they get taken over by Islam and other factions, they find themselves wishing that Trump, or someone like him, could retake the US gov and deal with them, once again, honestly.

They, as much as us on the right, long for the return to Trump like gov proceedings. The would would be a much more stable place, to be sure!!

From Quora....

Wouldn't a fourth Arizona 2020 election audit urged by Dr Kelli Ward, be truly substantive if all audit staff properly interviewed voters for which signatures seemed unclear, missing or duplicated? Surely anything less is incompetent, wasting money?
I live in Phoenix. If ANYONE came to my door, after almost 2 YEARS of this crap, and dared to challenge anything about my ballot, my signature, or anything else, I would go postal.

I am fed up with these huge-truck-driving, rude-bumper-sticker-showing, fake-patriot “Lets-Go-Brandon”ing arseholes holding my state hostage on the word of a would-be dictator who refuses to accept that he lost.

It used to be a private matter who you voted for. Now, these jerks want to take away my permanent ballot, and make me stand in line in the Arizona heat for hours, so that they can look over my shoulder and make sure I’m not an illegal or a cheat or an animated dead person, and then ask me who I voted for on the way out.

Just. Stay. Away. From. Me.

(breathes in paper bag)

I’m a libertarian, Conservative kinda guy living in Florida. We are having an influx of people moving here from N.Y.. please stay out. You voted for the laws and people that turned your city into a hell hole. You hate us. Why come here?
As a conservative I believe you are people with bad ideas. As a progressive you believe I am a bad person with bad ideas. Hence all the name calling. You know the progressive go to words. Racist, Nazi anti democracy nut. So, why do you want to come to the state I live in and ruin it?

Basically, a repost from 2017...

I have been a contributor to OPP for going on nine years now, and continually question what power this forum has over me.

It is true that I have made numerous OPP friends over time...even having met over twenty of them personally in my travels across the nation. Even more friends have been established through PMs and e-mails in open and friendly exchanges, along with publicly expressed exchanges on the forum. As I have stated in previous posts, those friends range from possibly the most zealous of conservative ideologues to varying levels of progressive or liberal individuals. Keep in mind, I am not necessarily putting those labels on them so much as they have been pigeon-holed, IMO, by the majority of OPP posters. And yet, as once again as stated in previous posts, all appear(ed) to be red-blooded and true blue, patriotic Americans. The only differences were in their ideological or political perspectives. I was raised in an America taught to believe that something conceded to all citizens of this great nation is freedom of thought, speech and expression. I maintain that belief.

John Adams and Thomas Jefferson were two of our most beloved and respected Forefathers. Yet, in lifetimes and careers that crisscrossed one another's, they often had the most vile and bitter of political disputes. Still, neither of them could remotely be considered any less than two of the most influential Founders of both our country and its Founding Documents. Their latter years (with political disputes behind them) were spent in steady personal dialogue and communication which exposed their respect for one another and their love of country. Why is it that, today, those of us who differ in our approaches to honoring our country can't find a way similar to those two great men in reaching an accord with honor and respect for opposing opinions?

There are many Veterans on OPP and I respectfully honor all of them for their service and sacrifice. Yet, I have had and read many exchanges between Veterans, some of whom shed blood for our country disparaging/disrespecting other Veterans simply because of opposing political or ideological stances on matters subject to discussion on the forum. One side or the other often lambasts the other for, according to them, lack of proper respect or love of country. I ask: At what point has one paid enough for an honest expression of their patriotism and love of country? I doubt that any service member, in a past firefight or foxhole, questioned the compatriots alongside them their political party or ideology. Why would any question the patriotism of a Veteran in a political discussion when each has served and often fought for the right to express an opinion? And, better yet, why would anyone question a Veteran as to their patriotism, especially when they have earned it with their allegiance and service to country while, as stated, oft-time...with their blood?

Getting back to my original premise: I find myself continually questioning why I stay on this forum. I guess it is because I am in constant search of the common thread that may, once again, bind us all: The eventual hope and belief that the best within our Forefathers will emerge once again and we will begin to re-affirm ourselves as the greatest nation to have ever graced this good earth. I don't think that this will come about by steadfast devotion to any political party or ideology, but by the belief in ourselves as a nation of Americans, one and all.

Here's a few facts...
1) Black President not once but twice
2) Multiple Minorities in Congresss,and local offices
3) First Black-Asian Female Vice President
4) First Black Female Lt Lt Governor in Commonwealth of Virginia.
5)And I think very important... 3 white men were convicted of murdering black man..And also white police officer was convicted of killing black man...
Although United States is not perfect, this country made huge strides in combating racism... If you can't see this, you either blind or a liar.... OR both!...On a personal note.. United States of America IS the GREATEST country in the world as far as I'mconcerned.If you doubt that, you're FREE to leave, as the Border is wide open!