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Jan 31, 2014 13:11:47   #
http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&ved=0CCkQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Ftherionorteline.com%2F2013%2F08%2F16%2Fsnopes-got-snoped%2F&ei=UOfrUpv-LIvpkAfBs4DQDQ&usg=AFQjCNF85Aidnse0uMY6mMdfb29fyEtQNw&sig2=FSbeaTsF8sd-FcBWN3V-0A&bvm=bv.60444564,d.eW0
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Jan 31, 2014 12:30:15   #
If you're going to quote "Shakespeare", please use spell checker, his English "was" English.

Thank you.
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Jan 31, 2014 11:54:05   #
Slacktivism: Why Snopes got it Wrong About Internet Petitions
DateWednesday, April 28, 2010 at 01:58PM | by AuthorRandy Paynter
"It is always with the best intentions that the worst work is done," observed Oscar Wilde. And so it goes with an unfortunate entry on Snopes.com (a site usually quite good about debunking urban legends), that characterizes "internet petitions" as "slacktivism", a pejorative suggesting that activism is worthless if it doesn't require considerable effort.

I usually ignore such commentary since naysayers are a dime a dozen, but that particular post gets a lot of attention: it's one of the top search results for "petitions," is a favorite among cynics, and no doubt has turned off many who might otherwise have taken action. At a time when civic engagement is more important than ever, it's a tragedy that this ill-conceived post has disempowered so many people.

Before I explain why Snopes is wrong about internet petitions, a little history: If you were online back in the late '90s, you likely recall receiving "email petitions" that asked people to add their name to the bottom of an email, and forward it for their friends to sign. They spread like wildfire but then disappeared into cyberspace with little to no resulting benefit. In Snopes' original "internet petitions" post they correctly labeled those petitions a waste of time.

In fact, I too was so appalled by that waste that I started thePetitionSite.com, back in 2000, as a way to channel that energy for good. By creating a central repository for signatures, adding fraud prevention, and making sure those signatures get delivered to Congress and other targets, we created a tool that has forced politicians, businesses and organizations large and small to face the power of their constituents.

But aren't online petitions still just "slacktivism"?
Let's look at the two assumptions people make when using the term:

Assumption #1: Online activism assuages guilt and makes people feel they don't need to do more.

True? Nope. Online activism is motivating more people than ever to make a difference.

Why?

1. Lower hurdles lead to more widespread involvement:

The reason we have such apathy in society today is because most people believe it's too difficult to have an impact and/or they don't believe they personally can make a difference. Because online activism makes it easy to get involved, millions more people than ever before are speaking up and taking action. And that's a good thing. Ask any hardcore activist you know - their first action probably wasn't storming the White House. Usually, activists start with simple steps, get some positive feedback, and then take it to a higher level. If we want a more engaged democracy we need to make it easy for as many people as possible to feel the joy of those first simple steps. Internet petitions are effectively a "gateway drug" to more civic engagement.

2. It's basic psychology:

Those first simple steps can be a powerful motivator. A recent independent study showed individuals who first signed an online petition associated with a nonprofit were 7 times more likely to subsequently donate to that organization than those who had not signed. Why? If we invest our time and energy to take action we're telling our brain it's important to us. That's particularly true when we announce publicly (such as by signing an online petition) that we believe in something. We humans have a strong internal need to be consistent with our self-image, so simple actions that demonstrate that we care about, say the environment, lead to future actions to support the environment (through donations, voting, purchases, discussions with friends, etc.).

3. It's the payoff that motivates:

Snopes author Barbara Mikkelson's "Amish" argument implies that online petitions are less meaningful because they make it too easy for citizens to communicate their views to elected leaders, unlike the old days of paper petitions and letters more laboriously written by hand. I believe people hold onto that outdated belief with good intentions, but I don't believe it's a philosophy that's going to create the kind of change we wish to see in the world.

It's not the effort of the act that further motives people, it's the emotional payoff that drives future engagement. If you make activism effective and enjoyable, people will do more of it. If you make it painful, they'll do less.

4. Different strokes for different folks:

Not everyone is going to become a super activist. If simple steps are all you're up for, then it's great to have you on board. Far better that than apathy. As Mother Teresa famously said, "If you can't feed a hundred people, then feed just one."

Assumption #2: Simple steps like online petitions don't effect real change in the world.

True? Nope. Online petitions and other actions produce huge impact.

First, let's clear up a couple of common misconceptions about how "real change" happens:

1. Headlines aren't the story:

Legislation, big fundraisers, new school openings and elections may grab all the headlines, but these are all just the results of millions of small decisions and actions along the way. President Obama didn't win 53% of the popular vote out of the blue. There were literally billions of little decisions and events that contributed to that final fact. Society celebrates the big milestones, but they're just markers along a long journey made by enough people who cared to make an issue a priority to influence decisions by those with authority. Online petitions and other actions are often the catalysts that can influence, engage and drive real change - which then, to most of the world, suddenly appears out of nowhere to grab the headlines.

2. The President didn't do it alone:

It's easy to credit the President, the CEO, or other persons in power for big change events. The truth is, their priorities are set by outside influences: what they hear from their constituents, what their colleagues present to them, and from their life experiences and other influences. The person in power may pull the trigger, but the reason they pulled that trigger - or had a trigger to pull in the first place - was a product of what came before. Online petitions are powerful indicators of public opinion, often trigger subsequent media attention, provide ammunition to nonprofit organizations and lobbyists, and can fast track an issue while others languish.

3. It doesn't take a handwritten letter:

We've all heard the story, "if you want to influence a person in power, write them a personal letter or call them on the phone." While those are indeed great tactics, try being the target of thousands of unhappy people signing a petition and writing comments visible to the public. Let's just say it's a very motivating experience, as countless lawyers, business owners, and elected officials have complained to us. Heck, it appears even North Korea couldn't take the pressure and tried to shut down thePetitionSite when we targeted them last year to release two US journalists imprisoned there.

Bottom line, the assumptions behind "slacktivism" are just plain wrong. Probably well intentioned, but totally flawed, ill conceived, and not helpful.

So, Online Petitions Are The Key to Making a Difference, Right?

Online petitions, like votes, presidents, big donations, lobbyists or anything else for that matter, can never claim "full credit" for change. Sometimes petitions are major factors in a big decision, sometimes they're the triggers that alert international media to hot stories, sometimes they simply raise general awareness of an issue, act as catalysts for fundraising, or compel other power brokers to get involved.

That's the way change happens: always the result of many steps and many influences, it always begins with individuals taking simple steps... which is why on practically every online action site you'll find Margaret Mead's poignant quote, "Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has."

Examples of the Power of Online Activism

These days it's hard to imagine significant change happening that's not greatly influenced by so-called armchair "slacktivists." Web 2.0 activism has transformed the power structure, putting power in the hands of the people and forcing authorities to be accountable like never before. The frustrations with G.W. Bush and the subsequent enthusiasm, fundraising, and election of Obama and a Democrat-controlled Congress are well-documented examples fueled by online petitions and other online activism.

While most successful online actions never attain such recognition, here are a few lesser known examples where online petitions played a key role:

Laura Ling and Euna Lee Freed
In March of 2009, independent journalists Laura Ling and Euna Lee were imprisoned in North Korea, charged with grave crimes against the state, and sentenced to 12 years of hard labor. Their friends and family rallied to bring attention to their plight, and created petitions on Care2 to raise awareness and call on North Korea to free the women. Close to 90,000 people signed these petitions, helping to keep the story in the national spotlight for months. In August, former President Bill Clinton traveled to North Korea and negotiated Laura and Euna's release. Read more here as well as Laura Ling's thank you letter to Care2 petition signers.

US Military Changes Course
When Sergeant Gwen Beberg attempted to take home a dog she had saved off the streets of Baghdad as a puppy, the US military confiscated the dog to destroy it. A friend helped her start a Care2 petition that quickly gained 70,000 signatures and made headlines around the world. The US Military responded to the outcry, changed course, and returned "Ratchet", the dog, to Beberg. They now live at home in Minneapolis.

David and Sean Goldman Reunited
David Goldman's son Sean was abducted by his biological mother and taken to Brazil against international law five years ago, and David has been fighting to bring him home ever since. His friends started a petition on Care2 to help his cause, and 60,000 people from around the world signed. The magnitude of the petition helped spawn rallies and media attention, and eventually David received support from the U.S. Congress and the Obama Administration. On Christmas Eve, 2009, David and Sean were finally reunited.

Roxana Saberi Freed
Roxana Saberi, an American journalist with dual Iranian-American citizenship, was arrested in Iran in late January 2009 and imprisoned without charges for over a month. In April, based on a closed, one-day trial, Ms. Saberi was sentenced to eight years in prison for charges of spying for the U.S., a charge the White House vigorously denied as "baseless." Almost 28,000 activists signed the Care2 petition urging the Iranian government to free Roxana Saberi. These signatures and the resulting global spotlight put pressure on both the Iranian and US governments. On May 11th, American journalist Roxana Saberi walked out of prison in Iran, and is now free.

Matthew Shepard Act Passed
President Obama signed the Matthew Shepard & James Byrd Jr. Hate Crimes Prevention Act into law as part of the Defense Authorization Act. The US Congress recognized the importance of this legislation after 25,000 Care2 members signed petitions and called their members of Congress to urge them to support this important piece of legislation.

HIV Travel Ban Lifted
For 22 years people with HIV/AIDS were banned from entering the U.S. Thousands of Care2 members, along with our nonprofit partners, petitioned the Obama administration to end this fear-based policy... and it worked the repeal of this ban is now in effect.

EPA Regulates Greenhouse Gas Emissions
Thousands of Care2 members have submitted signatures to the Environmental Protection Agency in the last few years urging the U.S. government to regulate greenhouse gas (GHG) emissions. This past September, the EPA announced a proposal to get us there, requiring large power plants and industrial facilities to obtain operating permits to cover their emissions, with an annual threshold of 25,000 tons of carbon dioxide emissions. Read more about this promising first step.

Climate Bill Passes House
In joint campaigns with environmental groups and unions, Care2 members have sent hundreds of thousands of messages to their legislators calling for them to pass strong climate change legislation and our voices are finally being heard. Last June, the U.S. House of Representatives passed a comprehensive climate change bill called the American Clean Energy Security Act.

Obama Admin Protects Roadless Forests
In just two weeks, more than 8,000 Care2 members sent letters to Interior Secretary Ken Salazar, urging him to take action to stop a Bush-era plan to open up old-growth forests in Oregon to clearcutting. The Obama administration listened and agreed!

Candidly, I hesitate to even raise such headline grabbing stories, because it plays into the misconception that the headline is the success point. It's not. In fact, success is often what's not in the headlines - like the successful battles (including hundreds of thousands of Public Comments sent by Care2 members e.g. see here) to keep drilling out of the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge (ANWR). And, sometimes even if a battle is lost despite vast online petitioning, the outcome is significantly influenced (such as the effort to keep snowmobiles out of Yellowstone. Although it failed to meet its ultimate objective, the huge public opposition resulted in stricter regulations and immeasurably greater awareness of the hazards of snowmobiles in national parks).

There are many more examples, and I've listed some below, but no matter what kind of change you wish to see in the world - whether it's related to climate change, the economy, health care, the power of money in our political system, or anything else - the fundamental solution is always more citizen engagement (unless you happen to own one of those Big Banks). Even the most greedy corporations and self-interested elected officials will do what the people want if enough of us get engaged by raising our collective voices and voting with our ballots and dollars. Online activism is a key ingredient for a more engaged, better educated, and effective democracy.

I'll leave the final word to an inspiration of mine, BodyShop Founder, Anita Roddick. As she so keenly observed, "If you think you're too small to have an impact, try going to bed with a mosquito."

More Examples

There are thousands of great success stories around the web, but here are some more of my favorites that Care2 members, often with great support from our 500+ partner nonprofits, have played key roles in:

Petition to Stop Aerial Spraying of the Light Brown Apple Moth
A statewide protest erupted after this online petition reached the news media and eventually the desk of Governor Schwarzenegger who called a halt to the spraying until more research could be completed.

Petition to Care for Heather Bridges
Within 24 hours of posting the petition, the 168 signatures got the attention of a staff member of her U.S. Congressional Representative, which started the process of getting her the care she needed. Sometimes it doesn't take a lot of signatures!

Defeat of Richard Pombo (R-CA)
This once popular representative from Central California was defeated after massive online petition campaigns (see here, here, here and here) helped reveal his damaging anti-environment track record.

Victoria's Secret Agrees to Stop Using Paper from Endangered Forests in its Catalogs
See the petition and more information from our partner who led this campaign, Forest Ethics.

Keep Domestic Cats in Wisconsin from Being Fair Game
When Care2 member Laila found out that a hunter in Madison, Wisconsin had proposed that hunters be allowed to shoot free-roaming domestic cats, She delivered over 30,000 signatures protesting this proposal to Steven Oestreicher, the Chairman Wisconsin Conservation Congress. Laila and all those who signed the petition were victorious - the proposal was rejected!

Keeping Information about Toxic Pollution Public
The Bush Administration proposed weakening the laws requiring toxic chemical polluters to disclose the types and quantities of chemicals they release into the air, water and land. During the Public Comment Period over 100,000 people - including 30,000 Care2 members - submitted comments. As a result, the EPA rejected the plan.

Keep Sewage Out of Our Rivers
Petitions, emails and phone calls helped tip the scales when Care2 worked with the League of Conservation Voters (LCV) to stop an EPA plan to allow more sewage to enter our waterways. The House of Representatives voted to prohibit the EPA from adopting a policy that would have permitted the blending of partially and fully treated sewage into our water supply after heavy rains and snow melts.

Teacher Removed from Class
When a FL teacher had her kindergarten class vote on whether to remove a possibly autistic child from her classroom, Care2 member, Laura, started a petition to vote the teacher out. The petition drew national attention about the issue of autism and resulted in the teacher's reassignment.

Legislation Passed to Allow Wounded Soldier to Adopt Military Dog Another example of where the military was forced to respond to public outcry.

US Fish and Wildlife Service confiscates Polar Bears
Petition drew attention to the poor treatment of polar bears in a Puerto Rico Circus. (see also here)

Elephants Removed from Hawthorn Corporation and Moved to Sanctuary
Read the story here.

Maggie the Elephant Saved from Anchorage Zoo
Public outcry helped get Maggie moved from the snowy Anchorage Zoo to California.

"Ben" the Bear moved to a sanctuary in Colorado
This petition helped raise awareness about the plight of a bear in Iowa, resulting in enough funds raised to place him in a sanctuary in Colorado.


Have more examples? Please share them in the comments below. Thank you!
*Randy Paynter is the Founder and CEO of Care2.com, the company behind the Frogloop blog.

**This article was originally published on the Care2 Trailblazers Cause Channel.

Read more: http://www.frogloop.com/care2blog/2010/4/28/slacktivism-why-snopes-got-it-wrong-about-internet-petitions.html#ixzz2rzotMIvt
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Jan 31, 2014 11:52:07   #
The Rio Norte Line
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Snopes Got Snoped
By Joe_Bakanovic August 16, 2013

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I love this story. Not only does it explain why I do not place much credibility in Snopes, the fact that it is done by someone with the exact same credentials drives homw the point. The only thing that separates the two is that the “MSM” has ‘blessed’ Snopes, thereby giving it the appearance of credibility. But then, given what is in the story, why wouldn’t the MSM support Snopes? Snopes is helping them do their primary job of misleading people about the Leftist agenda and doings:
Snopes is run by a man and a woman with no background in investigation using Google.

What is behind Snopes’ selfish motivation? A simple review of their “fact-checking” reveals a strong tendency to explain away criticisms towards liberal politicians and public figures while giving conservatives the hatchet job. Religious stories and issues are similarly shown no mercy. With the “main-stream” media quickly losing all credibility with their fawning treatment of President Obama, Snopes is being singled out, along with MSNBC and others, as being particularly biased and agenda-motivated.

Read the rest…

ADDENDUM:

Watch how this post will be attacked by citing other Left-leaning sites that purport to ‘de-bunk’ myths. This is the essence of the issue. If all Snopes does is use the internet for their sources — which they do — then what they determine to be true depends on what they accept as ‘credible’ sources. If they only accept Left-leaning sources as ‘credible,’ then — by definition — they are guilty of what the post I linked to claims. Furthermore, no one is infallible, but Snopes is always defended by its supporters as being just that: perfect. This is a decidedly Leftist characteristic. Think about it: when was the last time you heard someone on the Left admit they were wrong without trying to offer an excuse or explanation for how or why they were wrong? The fact is, Snopes has been proven wrong — many times. But every time the evidence is presented, Snopes Left-leaning supporters simply deny the evidence or point to another, Snopes-like, Left-leaning site to prove Snopes is not wrong. That is fallacious reasoning/arguing — another Leftist characteristic. :-)
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Jan 23, 2014 17:55:30   #
I guess if my mere mention of a parable in the bible is cause for offense or ridicule then maybe one of us needs to take a break here for a minute eh?? I commented on the simple fact that your posts of previous nature would lead one to believe that you were getting ready for a revival meeting instead of commenting on the current state of affairs, my apologies madam for posing such a bother to you for not giving chapter and verse out of which particular bible I was referring too for the parable. My comments however ring true in the real world of this day and age, our people as a whole have decided that sitting on the bench relying on the fed to care for us all, attend to us all and be there for us all cannot be denied, take a look around and you cant deny it, we've become so enamored with the "I" that we can no longer see the wrongs committed because it's to much bother , we wont be able to text, or sext, or watch the big game on Sunday, or twitter, or tweek, or twerk, or a plethora of other things that cause our abundance of "I" troubles. So please feel free to lay it on me as to what it is that I posted that you didn't agree with in the reality of things, I'm not a devout bible person perse', however since I didn't mention chapter and verse or which bible I would have thought that whomever read my post would take it as a commentary and not a Sunday school class to be audited for PC'ness.
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Jan 23, 2014 12:23:27   #
I admire posts like this to a point, but the reality of the matter IMHO is this, by the time the people whom you speak of do wake up or turn its far too late and the die is cast, the real problem is the fact that for far too long, people have either sat on their behinds and done nothing or decided it wasn't their place to do anything or last but not least, didn't have the balls to speak out in mass about what was being done, we as a whole have gone on our merry way just like the ones who passed over the injured man in the parable of the good Samaritan, to keep in the context of this thread I guess. we have allowed either by inaction or capitulation the stage to be set as it is now, lack of interest in the who's, whats, wheres of those whom have gotten to positions of power over us is going to be our ultimate downfall, you've stated it clearly enough using scripture, although at this stage of the game, most will either not read your post or give a hoot about what it is your writing or saying anyway. I'm afraid it simply must run its course as it has so many, many, many times in the past, its an inevitable trait of ours to self destruct every so many years, cant be helped or stopped.
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Jan 20, 2014 12:21:39   #
Well you can and probably will label me an extreme racist, but I don't care, I been on this rock long enough and dealt with enough of the colored persuasion through my 60+ years to know that "WHITEY" has been the whipping boy for them probably longer than they were salves under us, I get so sick and tired of hearing the big,fat,rich,blood sucking ones crying in the wilderness about who's gonna pay for the wrongs done to the black man, whooooa is me, whooooa is us, this racist thing will "NEVER GO AWAY" and yes I firmly believe that, it will "NEVER GO AWAY" AS IN NEVER, NEVER, NEVER"....as Ross Perot was condemned by them at one of the speech's he made back when he threw his hat in the ring for the highest office, he used the phrase "you people" and they had a field day over that, so who's the racist, Ross or blacks in general, how many times in the world has someone said the words"you people" and nothing but nothing was made of it, but whooooa be tide to you if you utter them words in a group of blacks, "shame shame I know your name", this is their biggest money maker, and as someone prior stated, generations after generations have been brought up brain washed with the thought that "WHITEY OWES THEM SOMETHING" Hitler proved it back in 1939 that tell the big lie, loud enough, long enough" and they'll fall right in line like good little chickens. The best advice I can give the black people in the US of A is,
"get over yourself"....everybody has been shit on one time or another in their life, whats so special about you, not one of you were slaves, not one of you were kept in chains, not one of you were subject to any of the negative black culture, the only ones who could lay claim to that are either dead or still have enough dignity to believe MLK and behave as adults in society today..
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Jan 11, 2014 15:50:25   #
because those who don't remember the past, are condemned to repeat it, nuff said, I could list cute little quotes all day long that do and will always have true wisdom in them, but if
"we the people" don't take the time and effort to be more than just a citizen, we need to look into the past of these people who run for office, we need to vette them to the nines if needed, we need to make sure that those whom we allow to be in positions of power over us are men of good character and a moral quality that is deserved of the founding fathers , we need to get our fat lazy arse's off the couch watching football or soccer and put down the beers and take notice of state, local, federal men and women who want to be in the office of making sure we stay ont he path of a true "GOD" fearing Christian nation again.
Bigmac495 wrote:
I didn't have a choice . I wrote my Representative and Senator not to vote for it . And I wrote my local newspaper .
Sadly when you vote it's very hard to tell who is telling the truth and who isn't , so you don't really know what you will actually get until they are in office a while !
I think if someone who is running for election that doesn't directly answer a question but tries to change the subject
is lying and will lie later on.
If they won't answer the hard questions they aren't going to work on the hard problems later !
Unfortunately we have so many of these in government now that " beat around the bush " and it takes 4 years to get them out and maybe not then !
I personally wouldn't vote for anyone who can't answer or don't want to answer the hard questions and goes off on a wild tangent .
There is a Re-Call process where you can remove politicians , but I don't have any idea how it is accomplished . I think it takes a special state wide vote to do it ?
I didn't have a choice . I wrote my Representative... (show quote)
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Jan 10, 2014 23:22:54   #
wooooo, do it again, "LATIN", how cool.

ceptin,

I DON'T NEGOTIATE WITH COCKROACHES FOR SPACE IN THE KITCHEN"
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Jan 9, 2014 23:32:38   #
Okay I'm ignorant, and your a believer in fairey tales,
if I'M wrong, explain away the corporate greed and sins they have committed in favor of the dollar, explain away the corruption in business these days, go for it he who is wiser than I, and by the by, I dint call you any names.I merely stated that if you believe that the business man pays for U.E. out of "HIS" pocket and isn't figuring out how to compensate himself for the cost, then I guess that particular business isn't going to make a profit and will wind up bankrupt in the end, you might want to , oh lets say to be kind, "WAKE UP AND SMELL THE BS".
Business has, still is and will always be about profit and loss, go ahead and tell me I'm ignorant now friend......
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Jan 9, 2014 21:13:30   #
and we all know just how well the LAW is followed,
thats why there's "no" lawsuits against "employers " for discrimination, sexual assaults, looking up peoples credit history to "DIS" qualify them for a job, not even giving a shit whether the circumstances may have been out of their hands, sorta like the super recovery were in now, wow,
just FYI, I ran a business too , in one of the worst tax fed communistic states of them all, N.Y.S., only the only employees were me, myself and I. I'll have you know the admin for he last firm I contracted to , in the field of engineering admitted to me in front of another I was having this sort of discussion with in the break room that everything the employer "HAS TO PAY FOR" in any legal sense one way or another , (and I'm stressing "ONE WAY OR ANOTHER" so as to asswage your inclination to the point) that your doing anything "ILLEGAL" whether or not they decide before hand that if they gotta pay for all of this external stuff on account of the feds mandate they most certainly are going to take all that into consideration before setting up the "EMPLOYES" salary, don't you forget it, maybe your the one in a million who didn't, maybe your the one in a million who never took it into consideration, but I'll wager vital parts of my anatomy, it's figured in, corporations and big shots aren't going to give away one damn dime if there's a way in hell to get it back or accommodate them in some other form for that dime, bet on it.
woooo the law forbids it, yea tell that to everyone who's been screwed over by someone who did it and then got away with it under the "LAW".
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Check out topic: I Support..
Jan 9, 2014 17:32:20   #
Don't be so mean,
he cant help himself he's had too large
a dose of good old fashion
American capitalism for far too long,
being as old as I am
and having served my nation honorably
he's what I would consider to be this generations

"HANOI JANE"
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Jan 9, 2014 17:25:09   #
Maybe "YOU" need some common core education, yes???
now hit me back and convince me that somehow, somewhere, someway, that employer isn't figuring the day to day of your salary, you insurance, you benefits, your this and your that, inch by inch, mile by mile, yard by yard that you are not paying into the U.E.insurance program right outta you own damn pocket, give me a break, whatta you using OBAHAMBA math???? there's no way you'll ever convince anyone with common sense and old school street smarts that the gracious employer is forking over the tab for the employees u.e.ins. without making up for it somehow, my "GOD" if that were the case we'ed all be getting free cars on the car dealers tab as well, think about your statement then call anyone who does the planing stage of a business and ask them , hey is the guy you work for Captain Generous or what??? he'll die laughing on the floor.

hprinze wrote:
In the U.S. the state and federal unemploymemt tax is paid by employers. Employees do not pay it.

Voting on unemployment tax should be only by those who pay the tax.
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Jan 9, 2014 17:10:09   #
its was the "BARROW" gang as in "CLYDE BARROW" of said referenced "Bonnie & Clyde" jeeze man get it right if your gonna poke people in the eye with facts "K"??

MrEd wrote:
Ever heard of Bonny and Clyde?????? Guess not.......... How about the Barro gang?????? Guess you never heard of them either............ Want me to list more????
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Jan 9, 2014 17:06:07   #
"THE ONLY THING NEEDED FOR EVIL TO CONQUER IS FOR GOOD MEN TO DO NOTHING", PC(Ladies welcome)
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