The reason why they haven't used their nuclear weapons is because they can't. They can't use their nuclear weapons without wiping themselves off the face of the planet. As much as you think Israel is this big powerful nation, they really aren't, so don't let their audacity mislead you. All of their victories were based on surprise attacks and conflicts with weak nations and stateless terrorist organizations.


No salty, I have looked at this from many perspectives over many years and that's why I can see through the bullshit of the one-sided view YOU have been given.


*sigh*... you should probably read the thread before repeating the same crap that has already been discussed and debunked.

Start with this... http://www.onepoliticalplaza.com/tpr?p=2421649&t=130619

Excellent point!

As you know, you can't have a right-wing conservative without a double-standard. When they say everyone should have access to guns they are forgetting that "everyone" includes black and brown people. Indeed, Israel is heavy on gun control... Perhaps not surprisingly Palestinians in the occupied territories are allowed to bear arms. But even in Israel proper, Israelis must meet a detailed list of criteria to be allowed to own a firearm (being Jewish is one of them). They must ask the state for a license, are permitted only one gun at a time, and must even ask for permission to sell their gun. And the Firearms Licensing Department is no rubber stamp: Roughly 40 percent of requests are rejected.

https://www.timesofisrael.com/comparing-america-to-israel-on-gun-laws-is-dishonest-and-revealing/

It doesn't just stop there... In Israel, most of the land that was taken from the Palestinians is owned by the state and controlled by a central authority. That land is then leased to Jews, there is no actual private ownership in this situation. That is in direct conflict with the spirit of private ownership and rugged individualism that supposedly stands as a pillar of conservatives values in America. Not to mention Israel's kibbutz system is 100% communist... perhaps the only truly successful example of communism anywhere in the world.

With all that heavy-handed centralized and collective control over the state, perhaps it's not surprising that we are witnessing the oppression of the Palestinian people.

No they aren't. Israel is annihilating Palestine.


No it hasn't. They had the land for a while and they lost it. It doesn't belong to them today anymore than the U.S. belongs to the Indians who had it 3,000 years ago.


That depends on which interpretation of The Almighty God's "words" you subscribe to.

According to Jewish Midrash... "the people were adjured not to return collectively to the Land of Israel by the exertion of physical force, nor to “rebel against the nations of the world,” nor to “hasten the End.” In short, they were required to wait for the heavenly, complete, miraculous, supernatural, and meta-historical redemption that is totally distinct from the realm of human endeavor. This waiting over two millennia manifests the very essence and singularity of the Jewish people, expressing their faith in divine providence, in the assurance of the prophets, and in messianic destiny."

Ironically, it seems the more Jewish they are (meaning how much they adhere to their traditions) the less support they offer for the State of Israel.

By far, the strongest support for Israel comes from the Christian-Right in America and the reason is a joke to Jews. The evangelist version of "God's Word" is that the Jews will help secure the area for the End Days when Jesus will reappear and instantly convert all the Jews to Christians so they can float up into Heaven and be saved.

blink, blink... Bwahaha!!

Netanyahu wants a one state deal. The State of Israel. No Palestine. It's ironic that the people who scream the loudest about "Death to Israel" are themselves guilty of "Death to Palestine". But it's that dang white privilege... you don't have to shout out your wishes if they're already coming true.

I love horses and I can ride but I'm not at the level you and KK are. In Colorado we used to see wild horses... my favorite kind ;)

I was living in the Colorado Rockies in the early 70's, I was a kid but I remember watching my dad fly fish. I'd like to try it sometime.
Protests can be pretty exciting, being a part of something you believe in. Meeting people. beating on drums - ha ha...

I think they mean more in places like Gaza where people obviously risk their lives just to show their numbers, fanned out along the fence. That was the beautiful symbolism they were "trying" to convey... And what made it even more beautiful is that they knew Israel wouldn't care about the message. They knew Israel would obscure them from the world and deliver reports of their "viciousness" instead. That's why some of them came with slings, but they may as well have been air guitars.

The fire kites were innovative but they only succeeded in setting themselves on fire. These are not formidable foe Joy. These are civilians being oppressed by an occupying force. Hamas is not a world nor a regional power. It's a barely functioning organization with meager resources and huge problems.

Aw... horse friends!!! :)

I don't advocate "forcing" anyone to do anything except to cease hostilities. And I make no exception for Palestinians with malicious intent. But I agree with EU in saying that Israel's use of force is disproportionate. I mean c'mon Joy... rocks and slings vs state-of-the-art military hardware? Can you maybe see how your "dangerous Palestinian" excuse might seem a little pathetic given my perspective?

Getting back to your loaded question... I advocate the pursuit of a genuine agreement between conflicting parties. I could be wrong but I think the two-state solution is about the closest any plan has come to a genuine agreement in the last 70 years. So, I'm on board with that one. If you have a better idea, do share.

Joy... There is nothing wrong with the way Palestinians were using their land. They've been a self-sustaining people for thousands of years.

You should read The Lexus and the Olive Tree by Thomas Friedman. The very symbols mentioned in the title relate directly to what you are describing. You are comparing the traditional use of land, as exercised by the Palestinians to the commercial use as promoted by Israel. In Friedman's metaphor, the traditional approach would be the "The Olive Tree" and and the commercial approach, "The Lexus".

Trump's own disregard for religious moral value and his obsession with capital underlies his position on Israel in much the same way it does for the Zionists. They've figured out a way to turn olive trees into luxury cars.

Well that's a good general description... The problem arises when you start thinking about the people who are already in Palestine. I don't understand how that doesn't become apparent to you in the moments before you can even finish typing that statement.


OK... I'll concede on that one. I've just always been stickler for a more precise lexicon.


Two-state solution.

So then you never had time for vacations or weekend fishing trips, or afternoon barbecue parties. I didn't know you were a slave. Sorry.


Gee, I've never heard that before. ;)


I never got arrested. I always had a career to protect. Not getting arrested in the US is easy for white liberals like me. We just stay out of trouble. And it's hard to gauge the "success" of a protest. The point is to draw attention to the problem. From there on it's really up to diplomacy and law.

Always trying... You should check with the Russians to see if there's any dirt on me. ;)

Short answer. The discussions I initiate almost always relate to things you and I have some degree of control over. Israel for instance, gets a lot of money and political support from the American people.

For the record, Boko Hiram, disgusts me. You should know by now, that I don't value religious influence on politics, I bitterly oppose the disregard for women AND liberal education. But I have little control over what they do. I have more control over what Israel does. So that's what I talk about.

Syria is a shit storm. I don't think ANYONE knows WTF is going on.

Apparently, you've never taken part in a large and diverse protest. If you did you would know that when 80 out of 3,000 people become confrontational, it's "mostly" a peaceful protest.


You don't put much thought into these morsels of anti-Arab rhetoric do you?

1. Egypt didn't close the border until 2007 and the reason why is because in 2006 the Palestinians elected Hamas as their provisional government. Hamas is associated with the Muslim Brotherhood that has been banned in Egypt since 1954.

2. Egypt closing their border (for whatever reason), doesn't make Israel any less guilty.

...Egypt isn't controlling all the resources going in and out of Gaza. Israel is.
...Egypt isn't blocking every attempt the Palestinians make to be recognized, Israel is.
...Egypt isn't killing them. Israel is.


My previous answer invalidates this premise. But nice try. You should join the liar league. ;)


Yes, Israel is always willing to be kinder when the Palestinians behave and accept their subhuman fate.


Israel isn't supplying electricity to another sovereign country Joy. A more correct analogy would be if we built a power plant to supply electricity to a fenced strip of Arizona and forced the people to depend exclusively on that supply, THEN used that supply as a political tool, by shutting it off anytime the people there complain. THAT is what Israel is doing.

I'm sure the rest of your post is a similar collection of Zionist propaganda and I'm running short on time so...

LOL - but he handled war.

So, a V-Rod, eh..? That's a lotta bike. I had "little" 750... a Triumph Bonneville T140. 'Had that deep growl. That was when everyone else was riding crotch-rockets. I noticed more of the older styles coming back on the roads now. Maybe one day I'll get back on a bike... when more people learn how to drive.

I wouldn't either but I wouldn't be stupid enough to continue supporting the mistreatment of people while expecting them not to fight back.


apparently, not doing such a good job...


No, Loki - it's not an easy job. But it might be a wee bit easier if you understood that those terrorists ARE civilians. These terrorists are not roaming around the countryside like the Taliban or ISIS. They are contained in an occupied territory where all resources are entirely controlled by Israel. These terrorists are the desperately oppressed civilians themselves... not all of them, but the ones that that can't take it anymore. Some of them are kids, some of them are mothers or fathers who lost their kids. They make weapons the way inmates in our prisons make weapons, with whatever materials and innovation they can get in a lock down environment, which is exactly what Gaza is. They look dirty because they live in squalor because Israel keeps shutting off their water. Some of them die because Israel limits their medicine. They are humiliated as a people and when one or two of them figure out a way to take revenge with their improvised weapons, Israel calls in an air strike to send a message.

Think about this for a minute, thousands of civilians fanned out along the fence some of them had improvised weapons, mostly slings and rocks. Most of them were completely unarmed and they all fanned out along the fence KNOWING the IDF was ready AND willing to shoot them. As much as you try to deny it, they ARE human beings and NO WHERE in human history do we see entire communities doing that kind of thing unless there is something terribly wrong.


Then why do so many of the incidents involve attacks on Israeli soldiers? There haven't been any incidents in Israel proper for a long time, almost all the violence is in the occupied territories where Palestinians aren't even allowed in Jewish settlements except to work and even then they are monitored. The only Israelis the Palestinians in occupied territories really ever come in contact with are the police or the military and that how most of the attacks (that I've read about) happen.


The Palestinians don't want to annihilate the Jews. Lordy, it's like talking to you about Mexicans.

And I haven't forgotten that the Zionists were amenable to the original two-state solution and that the Arabs were not. But that was in 1948, when the Arabs were still blown away by the audacity of the British to even suggest giving a half of Palestine to a bunch of "wetbacks" from Europe to create their own country with. I have to say, I totally understand the hesitation.

"OK Loki, make some room, we're going to give Georgia to all the LGBT outcasts around the world so they can come here and establish a socialist country of their own... What? You don't like that idea? OK, well let's be fair then... let's give them half of Georgia and you can keep the other half, OK?"

Since 1967 when Israel took what would have been the other state by force, I don't think Israel has had the slightest interest in a two-state solution. They put on the act, but they always include stipulations that they know the Palestinians won't agree to, then they play it off like they "tried" but the Arabs just don't want to cooperate. The show is important because it's the show that encourages millions of Americans to send money.


I'm sure there would have been because the whole situation was a powder keg anyway. The Arabs and Jews were already engaged in a civil war when they were still under the British mandate. I remember by dad telling me how everyone in Britain was expecting a bloodbath in Palestine the moment the British troops left and that's pretty much what happened. All the Arab League really did in the end was speed up the process.


Again, YOU are forgetting that every "peaceful solution" demands that they surrender control of their land to European immigrants.


The way I see it 100% of the blame goes to the Zionists. Had they not migrated to Palestine in the first place NONE of this would have happened at all. They had no right to just come down there and take the land. The Zionists made the first move, period. Every action since then has been a reaction.