Can you tell me how this... ...isn't prejudice?

From what I understand, the people that lived in Palestine hadn't developed a rigorous body of laws to govern land. There culture was in some respects similar to that of the original Americans, where land wasn't really "owned". The Palestinians saw it more as a creation of God, to be cared for but not to be owned or exploited. The Ottomans established records of land ownership and requested all the inhabitants of Palestine to register their ownership, which many Palestinians saw as a way for the Ottomans to locate Palestinian men to draft into their wars with Russia. So many of them refused to register. The Zionists took advantage of that by insisting they could buy "unclaimed" land from the empire and so the first Palestinian farms were taken. It's been tricks ever since.

So, I gotta question for those making all these really lame excuses for the hideous regime in Israel... Do you feel that this conflict is fulfilling a prophecy? Of course I am referring to the End Days. I ask because I can't think of any reason why some of you would be so outlandish with your claims unless you had reason to defy logic and be so extreme with your prejudice. Prophecy (for those who believe) seems like one possible reason for that and in a recent poll I noticed 49% of the respondents in the U.S. with strong support for Israel confess that prophecy *IS* a major influence if not the primary reason.

Here is a list of universities in the occupied territories...

Gaza
* Al-Aqsa University
* Al-Azhar University - Gaza
* Al-Quds Open University
* Gaza University
* Islamic University of Gaza
* Israa University
* Palestine Technical College
* University College of Applied Science
* University of Palestine

West Bank
* An-Najah National University
* Arab American University
* Bethlehem Bible College
* Bethlehem University
* Birzeit University
* Dar Al-Kalima University College of Arts & Culture
* Edward Said National Conservatory of Music
* Hebron University
* Ibrahimieh College
* Khodori Institute, Tulkarm
* Palestine Ahliya University
* Palestine Polytechnic University
* Al-Quds University
* International Academy of Art, Palestine

Other education and research institutions
* Applied Research Institute–Jerusalem
* Health, Development, Information and Policy Institute
* Palestinian Academic Network
* Palestinian Academic Society for the Study of International Affairs
* Palestinian Ministry of Education and Higher Education

Learning how to fire a weapon when I was a kid didn't stop me from going to college.

Joy, I don't know if you realize but you're making excuses for fear. Now, if you were defending the action of civilians, I would understand, but you're not. You're defending the actions of what you all seem to insists is one of the most effective and fearless military forces in the world... The amazing undefeated IDF that can stand up to anything... except (if one listens to you) the fear of Palestinian street kids with rocks and sticks.

Someone who knows how to use a sling can hurl a rock the size of a golf ball about 100-120 yards. The IDF uses the M24 Sniper System, with a range of 1500 yards. Think about that. Or, here... some perspective...



That dotted line is the fence. Those plumes of black smoke are from the tires to obscure the sniper line of sight as Palestinian kids brave the no-man zone to plant Palestinian flags and hurl rocks. Seriously, they may as well be beating their chests. It's the effectively the same thing. I found this arial view of the protests in the NYT... https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2018/04/13/world/middleeast/gaza-fence-aerial.html The article describes those fires as being about 300 meters from the fence. So that's like 330 yards, so add 120 yards (their range) and they're not even making it to the fence. The snipers are just taking shots at them from positions along the fence.

Palestinians:
Observers from the International Rescue Committee and the UN Office for the Coordination of Humanitarian Affairs reported that the majority of protesters acted nonviolently on 30 March[83] and 6 April.[39] Protest camps are set up 700 meters from the border. Protest actions near the camps have been large, diverse in participation, and peaceful.[206] protesters at the camps are engaged in a sit-in protest organized around their tents. Each tent is labeled with the town or village from which its occupants were expelled.[125] On both of the larger protest days, hundreds of primarily young men have approached or entered the 300-meter exclusion zone declared by Israeli military forces, thrown stones, hurled Molotov cocktails, and attempted to plant Palestinian flags.[39][83] A New York Times account describes the purpose of approaching the fence as "a powerful statement of defiance, bravery and national pride" among Palestinians.[207]

Israelis:
While the IDF has not publicly disclosed its rules of engagement, press reports indicate that soldiers are permitted to shoot armed protesters within 300 metres (980 ft) of the fence and unarmed protesters within 100 metres (330 ft).[207] The IDF has stated that its soldiers are advised to first fire warning shots, then wounding shots, before taking fatal shots

Aw, that's nice.

'thing is blade - ya gotta know how to READ it. ;)

Well ya see, I dropped out right before graduating to the evangelist version of Islam, so I'm sure you're right, I'm not as familiar as you are with that material, but I think that's where it becomes a blood lust thing, right?

Yes, if you want to support an oppressive regime.


The only time ANY ally has asked the US to fight was during WW2 when Germany was literally taking over the world (not just Europe) and we were sitting on our hands because we couldn't tell which side we liked better.


It would seem so.


That would be suicide.


They never had to fight a country as strong as Iran.


I'm certain that's not the case. What are they going to kill them with sticks and insults? No, my dramatic friend, I think it's far more likely that some of the more excitable protesters (probably kids) got carried away in the excitement and started to get physical with the fence. I've seen similar things like that right here in the U.S.


*sigh* I'm not going to argue with your fantasies.

I agree and actually I remember talking about that with Loki some time back when I said it's human nature to be prejudiced but keeping it to ourselves is what makes us civil.


I'm sure if Muslims decided one day to make the state you live in a Muslim State and told you to move aside as they bulldoze your house, you would understand the sentiment a little better.


While this is true, I can also understand why the Arabs rejected the two-state solution. Using my example again, would you accept that Muslim State knowing that it's not occupying ALL the of the US, just the part where you live? Would that make it acceptable to you?


Maybe the reason why people don't get this is because they can't tell apples from oranges... "Arab" is a reference to a race. "Israel" is a reference to a country. The U.S. fought the Filipinos, the Japanese, the Koreans, the Chinese and the Vietnamese but if I were to use your semantics I would just be saying it was the same dumb-ass Asians that keep coming at us. 

If you're referring to the Arab League of Nations, they've been chill since 1974. All the attacks since then were from stateless entities like Hamas and Hezbollah... the only two Arab nations to attack Israel since 1974 was Syria (once) and Lebanon (twice). In none of these cases will you find a situation where Israel didn't have a ridiculous advantage in terms of weapons and funding.

The wars with the Arab nations that stretch from 1947 to 1974 are often described as the Arab-Israeli Wars and they don't all fit into your description either...

The First Arab-Israeli War, 1947-49, did not start with an attack on the State of Israel because the State of Israel wasn't recognized by ANYONE as a sovereign nation yet. "Israel" was literally a stateless terrorist organization that did the same thing ISIS was trying to do by declaring a "rightful" domain. In fact the U.S. and Britain imposed restrictions on arms coming into Palestine (which is what the place was called then) BECAUSE they were... terrorists. So... the terrorists snagged a deal with Czechoslovakia for smuggled shipments of weapons that were intended for the Nazis (including brand new Messerschmidts) then they declared their independence and yeah, they basically kicked ass. I guess that's terrorism done right.

The Second Arab-Israeli War in 1956 did not start with an attack on Israel either. This time Israel attacked the Arabs... specifically, Egypt and Israel was joined by the British and the French. So not only was Israel the aggressor but they had two super-powers on their side while Egypt was alone defending it's borders. What was happening here is that Nasser had just nationalized the Suez Canal. So the British and French basically tried to do what the U.S. did in Iraq and change the regime. But then the UN stepped in to say the invasion was a violation of international law, which of course they did during our invasion of Iraq but the difference is the British, French and Israelis complied. Bush went ahead anyway, which is what G.W.Bush is officially registered as a war criminal. 

The Third Arab-Israeli War, 1967... Incredibly, this is yet another one where Israel attacked first. They launched air strikes on Egyptian airbases. Israel justified their attacks by saying that Egypt closed the Straights of Tiran to Israeli shipping, which they did, but that's not the same thing as attacking their country. The surprise air strikes just about destroyed the entire Egyptian airforce, then Israeli ground forces invaded the Sinai and took Gaza. That's when Nassar induced Syria and Jordan to attack Israel. Israel won mostly because none of the Arab nations had a plan because they weren't expecting a fight. Israel DID have a plan because they WERE expecting to fight because THEY were planning on taking the Sinai! They also took the Golan Heights from Syria and the West Bank from Jordan. The UN, (probably regretting by now that they recognized the State of Israel in the first place) said you have to give those territories back and Israel basically told the UN to **** off.

The Fourth Arab-Israeli War, 1973 (Yom Kippur War) technically, this war did not start with an attack on Israel either because the territories they attacked technically belonged to them, not Israel. Egypt moved forces into the Sinai, which according to the UN still rightfully belonged to Egypt and Syria moved into the Golan Heights which according to the UN still rightfully belonged to Syria. So these countries were simply trying to get their territory back. There were no plans to attack the recognized State of Israel. 


First of all, they never returned any of the West Bank back to Jordan, they never returned the Golan to Syria and they never returned the Gaza to Egypt. All they did is withdraw their troops from the Gaza Strip while maintaining control of everything going in and coming out, including water, and electricity. Do you know why they pulled the troops out? Because the Geneva Convention applies human rights standards to occupying forces. So Israel pulled their forces out so the law no longer applies and now they can use their siege-like advantages to literally turn Gaza into a living hell. It's pretty sick.


That's a pretty narrow statement. Inmates in our federal prison have a right to live here too. 


Jewish Ghetos in Nazi Germany were run by Jews too. Just because you put someone in charge of something doesn't mean your giving them control.


Gaza IS a prison!


You already spouted off that false image and I already debunked it.


That's not about a difference in culture, it's a difference in socioeconomics and freedom. When people are oppressed to the point of inhumanity, they pass fear and hatred to their children. When people are privileged and happy, they pass science and literature. 


Which was the Zionist plan all along. They never wanted a two-state solution, they want the Palestinians to either die or accept their fate as sub-humans and one way to insure that is to push them into the most intolerable situations possible which guarantees their violent behavior which in their mind justifies their execution.

Zionists... Not the Israeli people, not the Jews of the world... but the Zionists controlling the Israeli government. 

NO BETTER THAN ISIS!

I don't either... obviously you have no clue what I was referring to. 


You don't have to suppress news agencies to open alternate channels and flood the media market with lies. My brother's Jewish wife's sister used to get paid to edit pro-Israeli opinions. Before that she was a museum curator so that show's her "experience".


I don't think your're understanding reaches that level. Not if your using the Carlisle Indian School as a reference. And people of Indian decent today claiming to know what oppression is like is no more ludicrous than blacks today saying they know what it's like to be a slave in chains. I'm not saying the Indians weren't oppressed, just that I doubt seriously that YOU are familiar enough to make such silly statements.



It all depends on how oppressed you are. If your very lives are being threatened then yes, it's compelling enough to launch counter attacks in any way you can, even if you know you're going to die doing it because at least that way they have the honor of going down fighting for their families. And I get so tired of that stupid "they hide behind civilians bull****" Every other ******* excuse... "They hide behind their own women and children". That's just the excuse Israel comes up with when they kill women and children. The only reason why the U.S. Army didn't use the same excuse when they laid waste to entire Indian villages is that prevailing sentiment among Americans was that Indians were savages, including the women and children. Due to modern media and global awareness, Israel has to be more creative with their excuses. 


No they don't. That's just a blatant lie!

It's one thing to enter the argument with some misconceptions Joy but to continue to hoist lie after lie in a desperate attempt to discredit the suffering of the Palestinian people just because you're taking a side is disgusting. I'm sure your ancestors are turning over in their graves.

Maybe that's the problem... I know for a lot of people, when an argument "sounds" like something they already have a predisposition to oppose, they don't actually pay attention to what is actually being said.


Perfect example... I never actually said protesting is beautiful. Go back and look at my post... http://www.onepoliticalplaza.com/tpr?p=2422655&t=130619 and this time, pay attention to what I am actually saying.


As for me, I do what I can. I boycott Israeli products to the point where an Israeli tech firm lost a $2.1 million deal on my advise as an architect on the project to use another option. I am also actively supporting BDS.

As for the Palestinians, they protest to bring the attention of people around the world to their plight and it works... Every world power on the planet except the U.S. opposes Israel on their appalling mistreatment of the Palestinian people. What else CAN they do Joy? Israel ignores the world powers and continues to abuse them. Usually when that happens, people are forced to resort to violence. But you don't accept that either. Even though it's what our own founding fathers did when the British refused to listen to the protests of the American colonists. The Son's of Liberty were demonized by the Tories the same way you demonize the Palestinians. When those ill-behaved brutes dumped all that tea in the bay, they were destroying private property that didn't belong to them. So rude.

I really don't know what you expect. Maybe you really just don't understand the gravity of the situation. It's *seems* to me like you don't.


CNN, MSNBC and the NYT are all subject to that flood of lies that I'm referring to. Their journalistic standards press the need for the the liars to be tricky about their fibs. Not surprisingly, the WSJ and the Financial Times are constantly releasing these tainted perspectives. The more blatant lies get routed to the fringe commentators that are gaining popularity in the conservative audience.


I'm certain you are more knowledgeable in that area than I am. But I am aware that the Emancipation Proclamation was only applied to Africans and I know Congress passed some legislation in 1978 to improve the rights of Indians. But I don't believe that in the time you and I have been alive... Let's just say since the middle of the 20th century... there has been much comparison between the way Indians were treated by the U.S. government and the way the Palestinians were (and still is) treated by the Israeli government.


Joy, I hope by saying your analogy doesn't fully relate to the current plight of the Palestinians, you are not taking that as an effort to diminish the situation your family has encountered. If you give my words a chance to make sense in your mind you will notice that I'm really focused on principals and that many of them DO relate to the plight of the North American Indians and I have many times in the past brought this analogy up in conversations. I find the Manifest Destiny is the closest example I can find to the Zionist claims. Indeed, the Indians were brutalized and just fucked in ways that no people deserve by the very same people who were looking for a "New Jerusalem".

I also sympathize with your personal plight, I do but Joy... It wasn't the U.S. government throwing rocks at you. These were kids acting on their prejudices, right? That's what I call a cultural problem; politics can press it and agitate it (to leverage it) but it can't get rid of it. Cultural problems have to fade over generations of small changes. It's what Obama called a "generational" problem when he was describing what drives ISIS.

If Israel and the Palestinian people were to resolve all their political problems I'm sure it would take several more generations to forget their prejudices.

But you gotta start somewhere.

ha... ha.


You must really be a long way from reality if you think the provisional government in Gaza is one document away from sovereigity. LOL


None of that changes anything I've said. I don't like Hamas I never did. But when you put people in desperate situations they sometimes turn to desperate measures. There was 30 years of brutal oppression by the Zionists before they elected Hamas in 2006.


Military advisors? Ha, ha HA!!! Even if they could sneak military advisors into Gaza, WTF would they advise? There's no military in Gaza. They are an occupied territory! What part of that is so impossible for you to understand?

I dunno, there's a few things I think we agree on.


Or complete submission, which is what the Zionists hope for.


I can't argue that.


Is Graham a neocon? The Cato Institute's Center for Trade Policy Studies identifies Graham, during his U.S. House and U.S. Senate tenure, as having a mostly protectionist and pro-subsidies voting record. That's sounds opposite to neocon.


Are you saying our Founding Fathers were isolationists?


So what does that say about the president you voted for?

I really don't think Trump is that deep. I think he's just doing whatever it takes to get attention and it's the people around him that are taking advantage of that to push their various agendas.

Exactly.


Another point of the covenant is that a return to Israel was never meant to be a return to a piece of land. It was a reference to messianic destiny. Zionism is a materialistic mutilation of God's covenant for the purpose of profit.





There seems to me a lot of lost souls in America... pretty much everyone making excuses for the synagogue of Satan as they mercilessly slaughter Palestinians. While the Jews that stay the true to their covenant with God make statements like this...

http://www.nkusa.org/customUploads/Image/trumpprotest640.jpg

and this...

http://nyoobserver.files.wordpress.com/2013/06/orthodox_rally005.jpg?w=600&quality=80