LOL - all he did was break out each statement and deny it. He hasn't disproved anything. Take this for example... I said "Trump has put millions of Americans at risk of death and poverty for the benefit of the oligarchy and himself." And he responded with... "prove it"

Risk, is an assessment about the future not a fact about the past... He can challenge the logic behind my assessment, but there isn't anything to "prove". His response tells me that he really doesn't understand what I am saying... your high-fives tell me that it doesn't really matter to any of you anyway.

Look, I have work to do and I already know how this is going to go anyway. It's more important for children like yourself to deny whatever truth makes your daddy look bad and fire back with whatever lies will somehow make you feel like you scored a point.

On the off-chance anyone who is capable of fair assessment reads my post, they will understand it's generalized nature and can probably figure out what I am referring to...

I am referring to his record on wiping out the environmental regulations that reduce the level of pollution in our environment, pollution that people die from.

I am also referring to his attacks on healthcare... He has been sabotaging the ACA ever since he failed repeatedly to defeat the will of the people represented in Congress without offering any replacement. As a result, many Americans have lost their coverage, which again, increases their risk of dying from untreated conditions.

I am also referring to his cutbacks in social programs such as food stamps, leaving more people without the ability to sustain a healthy diet, which can lead to health problems and if they can't afford health insurance those problems can lead to more dire conditions and possibly death. Now, the typical response from deplorables is that many of those people are lazy and don't deserve "free handouts". But all your judgements aside, they are Americans nevertheless and so my statement stands.

I am also referring to his record on workers rights, where he has been supporting the efforts in Congress to rollback 70 years of protections such as the right to file class action suits against employers and allowing companies to force workers to sign arbitration agreements that deny them access to the court systems. This systematic suppression of workers rights can lead to economic depression for families in the lower third of the middle class and without health coverage or any other assistance, possible death.

BTW, Trump's shiny badge on jobs is 100% based on the unemployment rate, which only counts the recipients of unemployment benefits. The truth hidden behind that shiny badge is that more jobs have been lost since Trump took office than were created. You can see that in the "jobless" rate, which was at 37% before the pandemic hit.

Speaking of which, I am also referring to his budget cuts to the CDC and his dismantling of the entire bio-defence department in the NSA, which has put far more citizens in this country at risk and we are seeing this now as the US a country 350 million is clocking in at 216,000 cases, more than twice as many as in China, a nation of 1.4 billion.

The list goes on and like I said, I need to get to work and you won't consider any of these issues anyway. I'm just putting this out there so you know there's a little more to my "BS" than just empty claims, which is more than I can say for ANY argument I've seen from your side.

So... you ask someone to hang fire in this time of crises, then proceed to open fire yourself. LOL

...but taking the time to be sure they know.

Projection. It's a common psychological phenomenon. Here's how it works...

Marty is offended by the liberal resistance to Trump, especially when they expose his lies. So he gets on the Internet to project his shame on to the liberals, making sure to hit all the buttons... Trump doesn't lie, he tells the truth... And HE isn't offended, the liberals are offended... because they hate the truth.. yeah, that's the ticket!

Franklin apparently understood the fragility of a republic. I think this comes from his experience in watching people fight for it. He knew the real power is in the people and the republic is a mere reflection of that power.

200+ years later, the American people (who never had to fight for a republic) have come to take it for granted. Even worse, on the right there is a culture of submission (that I think stems from too much religion) in which people are conditioned to believe that our role is to submit to higher powers. They are encouraged not to think for themselves or fight for themselves but to trust these higher powers instead.

I think this is why eagle puts so much faith in the republic as if it's sea wall that can stand up to any storm and protect us all. I think it also explains why these submissive people find our will to challenge authority as "unruly" and "disrespectful".

I'm sure it also explains why they tend to look at their president as someone who will fix things for them, rather than someone who will work with us to fix things together, hence the difference between Obama's "Yes WE can" and Trump's "I am doing a great job".

I agree that the Tea Party gave away far more than they should have. They were strong supporters of Citizens United and I REALLY don't think they understood the impact. I mean, seriously... it's a decision to let anyone in the world invest unlimited funds to election campaigns with no accountability whatsoever. How on earth can anyone think that's ok?

Again, they chose not to figure it out for themselves opting instead to trust the higher powers. (They seem rather impressed by anyone with a lot of money) That's a dangerous thing when you consider how it's the power of money that is threatening our democracy.

Milosia, I don't think eagle can answer that. I don't think he intentionally supports the oligarchy, but he apparently isn't sure what you mean by democracy. See below...


See?

Eagle... Just to clue you in... Republics and democracy are not mutually exclusive. Saying we have a republic and not a democracy is like saying you drive a sedan, not a car. How do people manage to forget everything they learned in school and then get totally reprogrammed by right-wing propaganda?

Here's an easy lesson...

1. republic - ANY form of government where the head of state is an elected president rather than a monarchy.
2. democracy - ANY form of government where the people are given a vote.
3. These are concepts not proper nouns to you don't have to capitalize them.
4. republic and monarchy = opposites
5. democracy and tyranny = opposites
6. monarchy + tyranny = Saudi Arabia
7. monarchy + democracy = UK
6. republic + tyranny = North Korea
7. republic + democracy = US

I'm pretty sure Milosia is referring to oligarchs in the sense that they achieve their power through money, which technically makes it a plutocracy and there is contention between plutocracy and democracy in this country where new rules are encouraging a power shift from our democracy (you, me and any other American with a vote) and the plutocracy (NOT you, NOT me, NOT 99% of the American people).


I guess the lesson isn't over...

Our republic is a medium of rules that can be manipulated by a number of influences depending on whether the constitution allows it. When the constitution was first ratified it specifically allowed the rules to be manipulated by a representative democracy. But over the years there have been a series of changes, such as the 14th Amendment and the Citizens United decision that allow additional influences such as the oligarchy to influence the rules.

So it's a mistake to think the republic is this rock solid fortress that will protect us from the oligarchy or to think that the power struggle isn't between the democracy and the oligarchy.


Neither is watching people getting fooled into supporting their enemies.

LOL - Just letting you know, you can't bury someone with BS without others noticing.

No, I don't. Then again, I don't tune into right-wing BS sites.


'Don't remember that either. I remember sending aid to people in need. And I know some hateful people here calling them enemies.


Hardly a disaster... Or are you going to tell me that businesses were shut down and unemployment rates soared then too? Seems to me that Obama just did a better job of dealing with it.


Take you own advice Sparky, you're only one between us that needs it.

Trump has put millions of Americans at risk of death and poverty for the benefit of the oligarchy and himself. For that, he really doesn't deserve any respect and if that makes you sick and tired... here's some advice. Leave the cult. Seek the truth, it will break you free.


Quite the opposite. His attitude shows an obvious concern for this country. It's a well known pattern at this point, people who are concerned for this country and concerned about Trump. People who refuse to acknowledge that concern either don't care about the country or they are so committed to the cult that they don't realize they are pissing on this country.


No it's not just you - unfortunately there's a lot of people like you. Thank God they are still vastly outnumbered by people like Kevyn and myself.

And you want to talk about a lack of compassion or respect for others? Trump has shown an unprecedented lack of respect for American laws and people all over the world it's one of the most prominent reason for outr "attitude". The deplorables that worship him are even worse. They hate black people, they hate brown people, they hate gay people, they hate muslim people... it's a long list. The only people WE don't have any respect for are those so dedicated to the Trump Cult that they refuse to acknowledge the damage being inflicted on this nation by the vacuous braggart they worship and the evil snakes that use him.

I don't know about all the details on the OP... I know BS does come out of both sides of the fence, but some points were made that are undeniable... like Trump's refusal to cooperate with government oversight. There's no excuse for that. And if people don't question a leader who refuses to be transparent with their elected representatives then they don't deserve the democracy the founders gave them. These sad little people have turned their backs on America for the sake of a cult.

Wilson was on YOUR side not ours. The Democrats were the right-wing conservatives back then. I know you've heard of the big-switch and maybe you deny it, maybe you think political parties are always anchored to ideology, but you'd be wrong.


LOL - you folks can never say NAZI anymore without spelling it out to be sure the word "socialist" is prominent... Ever since Jonas Goldberg came out with that idiot book. It's so sophomoric. The fact is the Nazis stemmed from a time of economic depression and everyone was demanding socialism then. So any populist was going to make that promise, maybe even add it to the name of their entity, like the way North Korea is a Democratic Republic. The fact is, the Nazis implemented some socialist systems, just like FDR was doing in America. And from the perspective of a dictator, it doesn't matter what system they deploy as long as they're on top. Stalin would have been just as happy on top of a free-market economy. It's just that capitalists weren't creating revolutions and power vacuums; communists were.



Actually, I would give that title to religion. But I agree that PhD wouldn't help anyone "see" Marx's "bait and switch". In fact, anyone smart enough to get a PhD would probably know the difference between Marx and Stalin.

No, I'm not any worse off than I was four years ago. I'm about the same. Things have been flat but stable for me for the last six years. When I say that, I am referring to my job stability and my income. My stock investments have been climbing for the past 6 years. So either way, Trump really made no difference. At least not to my situation.

How about you?

I do agree with you there. (except... I don't know why you capitalize liberal or conservative, they're not proper nouns).

I also wonder if that's part of the problem we have these days. People place too much emphasis on the importance of being liberal or conservative. I can be liberal about something one day and conservative about something else the next. I consider myself "mostly liberal" with respect to politics because I am "mostly" in favor of change and that's what liberal means. To be conservative is to resist change. Now for the proper nouns ;) ... I think in today's climate the "deep state" Democrats are more conservative than "Freedom Caucus" Republicans.

Look who's talking. ;)


Of course it was... Investors saw who was coming in.


That's not what historical records and charts say.


Is that your way of saying you can't explain any of your claims?

Look, I know Obama didn't single-handedly lead us to a healthy economy... Sometimes I say that just to annoy people, but I know presidents don't that have that much influence. They can set a few parameters but the rest is up to the market. In fact when the economy is growing (which it has been since 2012), presidents don't really have to do much at all. We could have had a potato for a president for the last 3 years and there would not have been much difference. The economy was already on auto-pilot. It's when the economy tanks that a president is faced with a challenge. Obama took over when the economy was in its worst condition since 1929 through no fault of his own. It would take a complete idiot to think the economy in 2016 is even comparable to what it was in 2008. Your denial is incredibly obvious.

Thanks to the trajectory set by none other than Barack Obama!!!!!