Voter fraud is real but proven cases are extremely rare. There are between 10 to 300 cases of documented voter fraud from 2000 to 2012, so about .0000004% of the total registered voters over the same period. And in 2016, despite Trump's claim that the 3.5 million votes that Hillary got over what he got were all fraudulent votes from illegal immigrants, there was in actuality only four cases and here's the kicker... they were all Republicans.

Now, I'm aware that some "databases" claim thousands of fraudulent votes such as the Heritage database but I have also studied the database that Kris Kobach was trying to mandate but the states wouldn't agree because of the glaring problems and obvious partisanship.

It's an interesting system in which first and last names were supposed to be used in conjunction with social security numbers to make comparisons across states to make sure no one is voting in two states. But they ran matches without SSNs and delivered the results. So any two people with the same first and last names living in two different states were marked as one fraudulent voter. There is suspicion that this was intentional because there are many more Latinos sharing the same names than white people, but that was never proven, and thankfully Kobachs BS system was never accepted by the states.

But that won't stop similar systems from generating overblown statistics based on misinformation and partisan shenanigans.

...it could also be because you're white.

I've had both experiences. As a young man with longer hair I used to get treated differently than I do now as an older man with shorter hair and there's no reason other than appearance because I've always behaved the same way. Once I was pulled over and taken out of my car while they searched it. They broke the visor on the driver side. A few minutes later they let me go saying they thought I was someone else. That's when I had long hair. I'm sure the difference is not as drastic as between a white man and a black man. But at least I know that simple appearance CAN make a difference in the way police treat you.


I'm betting if you were black that would not have happened. Yes, police officers are humans and humans are not all the same, some of them are good some of them not so much and none of them are perfect. But there is definitely a problem with the system because police abuse is rampant and the system is protecting the abusers.

So I stand by my earlier statement. We need reform. This is not an attack on the police. This is simply a request for improvement. I was involved in marshal arts when I was in my 20's and my instructor, an 8th degree black belt, was recruited by the Riverside Police Department after the Rodney King riots to demonstrate better approaches to control. He brought me along as as a willing guinea pig so I got to see the whole thing and I was amazed at how clueless the officers were. They had no idea how to handle situations benevolently.

The recent trend has been military training, which is the worst idea possible. In the military you are trained to kill people before they kill you and these schools are promoting a kill or be killed instinct in police officers.

Now, thanks to the protesting and the demand for reform I am noticing that many police departments are turning to marshal arts again. That's good because there are many, many ways to physically control people even the size of George Floyd without having to plant your knee on his neck.


Seriously? How about this? To avoid tickets don't break the law. If you do, don't try to schmooze your way out of it because it's the officers job to give you a ticket if you break the law and when you pull your crying act you are pressuring the officer to neglect his job.

Yes, be respectful. But don't play games and don't apologize to the officer for breaking the law, it's not his law he's just doing his job by enforcing it.

No, that's not what I said. (I was wondering why all of a sudden you came up with this laundry list of BS out of the blue.) I accused someone of avoiding the facts by simply brushing them aside and asserting that his opinion is the truth (as if that somehow invalidates the facts).

It's getting late... Maybe it's time for you to put the phone down. Relax, watch some Hee-Haw or whatever you old country folks like to watch. ;)

There is plenty to bash both sides for but I thought we were talking about abortions. Your words seem to suggest that abortions are merely an excuse among many to bash the left.


How about looking at the records for a change instead of squawking parrots? All the actual evidence proves the Democrats to be far more responsible with money. This has become an inherent difference between the two parties. Democrats raise taxes so they can spend from revenue, as suggested by the Constitution. Republicans on the other hand, cut taxes so they can win elections and then borrow money they want to spend which then gets added to the national debt. This is why the deficit rises when Republicans are in control and levels out when Democrats are in control. 8 years of Clinton and we have a surplus. 8 years of Bush and we have the biggest economic crash since 1929. 8 years of Obama and the economy is doing better than ever. 4 years of Trump and it's crashing again.

So tell me... On what planet are the Republicans the fiscally responsible party?


You might want to pick a different "eg". I am very familiar with the immigration issues and Trump is the only one breaking immigration laws.


Yes, these are intertwined. Tribalism and identity politics are everywhere and it's usually a matter of intelligence not politics. But government offices always made the effort to rise above it... That is until Trump came along... The first president to ever play into tribalism. That's because he knows he doesn't have the ability to win people over with anything sensible so instead he leverages the emotional power of bigotry and tribalism by stoking their fires. We all know he does this. It's not like he hides it.


Again, the right wins here hands down. The left isn't making excuses for white supremacy the right is and just you try to find a white supremacist who calls himself a leftist - they don't even exist. I don't see leftists pushing for laws against gay marriage either, that intolerance is 100% conservative. Conservatives are synonymous with intolerance. There entire platform is based on an intolerance for change.


I don't think so. Half the military votes Democrat. If anything the left is wary of the right-wing obsession with waging war all the time. The left would like to see more of that money being spent on things like education and healthcare. If you're confusing that with a contempt for the military... well, you have problems.


Again, we can find this on both sides. In fact there is no greater example of contempt for the law than the stand-off with the Bundys a few years back and the Bundy's are NOT leftists, trust me, but they did break the law and they did level their weapons at law enforcement officers. If that's not contempt I don't know what is.

If you are trying referring to the current protests and the calls for defunding. I don't think you understand what's really going on. It's not contempt for law enforcement. It's contempt for abusive law enforcement. Huge difference, but not useful for your twisted narrative.


Since most Americans on the left are tax paying citizens that would mean they are in utter contempt of themselves. LOL...

Are you really THAT oblivious? Have you never heard of a mother losing her life at child birth? Bad things sometimes happen late in a pregnancy or even during birth and sometimes doctors are suddenly faced with a choice... Save the baby or save the mother. It's never an easy choice to make. Often the mother is saved for compelling reasons such as the children that already depend on her.

This is not technically an abortion because the intent isn't to kill the baby but to save the mother. But the CDC records it as a death of a full-term baby and since it happened during a medical procedure the baby killers that pretend to be "pro-life" call it a full-term abortion because it suits their political purpose, especially since the CDC reports 13,000 such deaths per year on average. Next thing you know all these baby-killing conservatives are running around screaming about infanticide.

91% of the abortions in the U.S. occur before week 13. This is the window that most pro-choice advocates would like abortions to be limited to. This is the window that Planned Parenthood tries to make sure isn't missed.

If the so-called "pro-life" mob ever got their way, young mothers would lose access to medical facilities that can assess and perform the abortion that early. Instead, they will seeks illegal options (because despite how conservatives can't figure this out, making something illegal doesn't always stop it from happening). The problem here is that they will be alone without medical advice. It may take them more than 13 weeks just to find an option and then maybe more to get the cash for it. Not that it matters because most "back-alley" abortions happen closer to full-term anyway.

So don't pretend to take the high road here. It's the scumbags on the right that turn abortions into political points. The only people that really care about the unborn on are the left.

LOL - People ask me why I waste my time on people like you. You have no answer to any of the points I made because you know you can't go toe to toe with me on the facts, so you just resort to a claim on the truth that doesn't even make sense.

A person with an interest in the truth would consider arguments he my not agree with at first, just to test his own assessment. But you took the other road. You don't WANT to consider my argument because you don't want to find out that your wrong. This is how your response gives you away. You don't care about the truth and I don't think you care about those babies either. All you care about is bashing the left and the abortion issue is a device for doing that.

Disgusting.

I don't know which "lefty states" you are referring to. I looked at the laws for California and Colorado... Both states use the $50 line to divide petty theft from more serious infractions. But they also clearly state the penalties for petty theft.

I also understand that shop owners have the right to detain anyone caught shoplifting until the police arrive. I see nothing in the CA or CO laws that say anything different no matter what the value of the stolen property is.

So... can you point to the law you are describing?

The evolution of technology has made it more possible - let's just say that. Oh, and there's the fact that the cashless options we have today (credit cards, debit cards, PayPal, Google Wallet, etc...) have all been eagerly accepted by American consumers without ANY pressure from the government.

Socialist doctrine? LOL - You don't even know what socialism is so just stick to simple words. You can call me a liberal if you want.


My side has been saving babies from being snuffed out for decades. We do this mostly through prevention by offering contraceptives, family planning, education and access to healthcare. Meanwhile, the ONLY thing your side does is march around with signs bitching about abortion being legal which you've been doing without ANY effect for what 40 years? That's a long time to constantly lose. Heck, you couldn't even change the law when the Republicans controlled the presidency AND both sides of Congress. What's up with that?

I don't think your masters really want to stop abortion. They like how they can count on your votes just by promising to outlaw abortion, then break the promise and STILL get your vote next time on the same promise. It's funny as hell, but kinda sad too.


LOL - Trust me, I would never had made that suggestion... About the only thing the right has any control over is your mind. They would be more effective if they could control the minds of more capable people but the problem there is more capable people don't drink Kool-Aid.


...of you not to realize how that works.

It's so simple a child could understand. The right has been downgrading our social net since the Reagan days. As a result, an increasing percentage of the population, especially among the youth, are finding themselves in increasingly desperate situations and sometimes... oops they get pregnant. Now what? This is the classic setup for abortion. Almost all abortions are requested by people who feel they can't afford to care for a baby.

Of course you will not research any of this because saving the lives of the unborn really isn't important to you. What's important to you is having an excuse to demonize the left. I think it's disgusting how you snakes use unborn babies as political fodder.

Yeah, sure - it's never over until the fat lady sings, right? Who knows, Trump's miracle of 2016 could happen again where the will of the people gets overturned.

But see, this is exactly what I mean... GOP influence has been shrinking for a long time which is why they depend so much on overturning the will of the people to win elections. Out of the last seven elections, the Republicans lost the popular vote six times! Now, you can marginalize the popular vote if you want because we all know the people's vote doesn't count in presidential elections. But the popular vote is in fact the only true measure of the people's will.

So, we don't really have to wait until November to the pattern here.

I don't have to move to Cuba to get free healthcare. I can get that in pretty much any developed nation, Canada, the UK, Germany, France. Besides, I'm in pretty good health and I already have insurance through my employer so I'm fine for now. I would rather stay right here where I can join the fight for universal healthcare.

This might not make sense if you're a typical conservative that can only think about yourself. But you see, I'm a liberal, so I am also concerned for all those other Americans that can't get insurance.

Birth control prevents pregnancy. What better way is there to avoid abortions? And yet, conservatives don't want free birth control either. It seems that conservatives WANT children to suffer, but I know this isn't really true. They're just too fired up by right-wing media into this frenzied hatred of anything progressive that they neglect the facts.

As you so often do, you bring up a very good point.

Indeed, the pandemic is effectively giving each country on the planet the same exact challenge... to protect their people and their economies from an outbreak of the exact same virus. And Team America is in LAST place!

Trump being the president at the time has little to do with these results, although his antics do make the whole situation much more embarrassing. The reason why we are in last place is because of our system.

The difference is that in places like France and Germany, the nation comes first which means priority is on the people. In contrast, America never became a nation in this sense. We started out as colonies of exploitation and all the American Revolution did was change the management. So if anything America has always been a system of exploitation where money comes first.

So, in France if you're sick the government will take care of you because your French. In America you can also be taken care of, but only if the system can make a profit from it. In France if the government shuts down your business it will subsidize your income, because your French. In America if the government shuts your business down you have to plunge into endless bureaucracy to find whatever scraps you can qualify for and pray it will be enough. Or... protest the shutdowns because no matter how great the risk, you HAVE to work to survive. You will hear anti-lockdown protesters saying they "want" to work. But the truth is, unlike the French, Americans HAVE to work - we don't have a choice.

Now to be fair, there has been a LOT of effort among Americans to make America Great for once and put some priority on the people, but these Americans are called progressives and they along with all their efforts are constantly obstructed by the benefactors of the system, the Republican Party that caters to them and the useful idiots that call themselves conservatives.

On the upside - COVID-19 maybe the rock-bottom that America had to hit before it's people can realize how much our system really sucks. I see a rise among the younger and more educated Americans in the call for change and a better America. I also see the conservatives shrinking in size and losing relevance to the point of absurdity.

So, in the big picture - I think things are looking up.

It doesn't seem like you understand the situation... No one is "coming" for anything. The banks are reporting a shortage of coins simply because the circulation of coins depends on business that take cash and many of those business are being shut down...because of the coronavirus.

How anyone can turn such a simple and obvious situation into some conspiracy is a testament to right-wing politics which is getting more absurd by the hour.

You mean the white privilege that gave the job in the first place instead of the black man that may have done the same work in 10 hours?

Well... enjoy your ride home, knowing that you will soon be taking a nice shower and relaxing with your family. Without your white privilege there's a much bigger chance that before you get home the police will pull you over for "looking suspicious". At that point your day doesn't end after 12 hours of hard work, now if you want that shower, if you want to see the kids, you have to be very nice to the police even if they are rude to you. Be sure to say "yes, sir" and "thank you sir." Then maybe they will let you go and you can see your kids.

Seriously, denying the existence of white privilege is a certificate of ignorance if there ever was one.