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A Citizens Tax Plan
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Aug 23, 2013 07:23:30   #
mwdegutis Loc: Illinois
 
I wrote this back during the "fiscal cliff crisis". I feel it still applies...

Concerning the so-called fiscal cliff, for those of you who remember…as Gary Gilmore said, “Let’s do it!”

However as a side note to the fiscal cliff “crisis”…I’ve spent a lot of time…too much time I’m sure my wife will say…contemplating OUR country’s financial situation, the fiscal cliff, etc. and have come to the following simplistic (we need simple) conclusion to solve our budget crisis RIGHT NOW. It involves EVERYONE and if people don’t like it I really don’t care, it's solving our country's financial issues, not arguing which side has the power, won or lost, etc...I’m looking at it from the perspective if it were my own finances. Here goes:

1) Cut all federal employees wages by 25 percent (They would still be 10 percent above the private sector) – over $440 billion savings over ten years
2) Do whatever it takes to raise tax REVENUES from personal income taxes that includes EVERYONE by 5 percent
3) Reinstate the 6.2 percent SS tax rate from 4.2 percent while no longer having an income cap on it
4) Cut federal spending ACROSS THE BOARD by 22.5 percent – I recall several instances in my business life where I’ve been tasked with cutting expenses by a certain percentage…end of story

Moving forward, we will have “stopped the bleeding”, have a balanced budget, and we can now attack OUR over $16 trillion debt. Like I said, it’s simple but us idiots need simple.

I can already hear one thing…what about them greedy corporations. Again simplistically, I’m looking at it from the perspective that ALL business is the driver that HIRES and EMPLOYS this nation and the workers in those businesses ultimately drive our economy, NOT government. So we need business “plugging along” keeping people employed so the people have money they EARNED to keep this economy moving. Wow, that American Dream...what a concept.

Just my two cents for what it’s worth…

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Aug 23, 2013 08:27:15   #
bahmer
 
AuntiE wrote:
And when some underdetermined country comes knocking on our door, we would defend ourselves how?


I guess under him we would all go out and have a weeny roast around an open fire and sing "I'd like to teach the world to sing" or "kum ba yah" together and then shake hands and make up.

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Aug 23, 2013 08:47:04   #
andrew998 Loc: NYC
 
Worried for our children wrote:
I understand your concern, inner ear pain can be quite uncomfortable. You are the determining factor as to whether or not to make such an appointment. Sort of like in your airplane pilot voice when you refer to turbulence.


Oh yeah.... Concerning your presented topic. Your suggestion reminds me of a National Football League team, the Greenbay Packers. The only team in which their hometown fans own a percentage of the team. I would have to inquire further how that works, in order to apply my thought to your topic.
I understand your concern, inner ear pain can be q... (show quote)


Thanks for the recommendation anyway.

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Check out topic: Joe Biden, racist for life
Aug 23, 2013 08:59:18   #
andrew998 Loc: NYC
 
Old_Gringo wrote:
TARP to stem the unemployment? Surely you jest. TARP recipients didn't save any jobs, it just kept 'the too big to fail' from having to declare bankruptcy.

The Fed allegedly buys the Treasury notes to stem inflation. Actually they are buying the US Government.

The banks are quite penurious when it comes to lending money to small businesses. So that assertion doesn't hold water.

You are Liberal because you don't comprehend a danged thing and aren't intelligent enough to make it on your own.

TARP saved more than 3.5 million jobs of most of the people that work in the financial industry. The Republican way of "Let 'em fail, they deserve it" would have put all these people on unemployment in addition to unemployment already out of control. Do you see how stupid that would have been?

What does hurt the American economy is the Congress being in bed with the Crony Capitalists. Congress Critters are looking out for themselves, not those governed.

Look how many of them entered Congress without the proverbial pot and have become millionaires. On their salaries? Give me a break.
TARP to stem the unemployment? Surely you jest. TA... (show quote)

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Aug 23, 2013 09:47:00   #
cold iron Loc: White House
 
andrew998 wrote:
You are actually bringing up the underlying main problem with the US government. Its that these politicians go to DC and do whatever they want. Very few people actually pay any attention to what their representatives vote on or for. With the above plan, it gives us (the people) a say in what they do and don't do. If we did not like the war in Iraq, we could de-fund it the following year is what I mean. I think the plan is a good one but we need to be careful that we don't zero-fund an agency and make this into huge management problem. I mean, each agency needs some minimum amount of skeleton funds to hob along on even if we all voted it down.

Why do I have to be civil? What's wrong with calling conservatives Nazis.
You are actually bringing up the underlying main p... (show quote)


Well, why lie about conservatives, none are socialist, the Nazis are and as is you.

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Aug 23, 2013 10:14:59   #
EugenePatrickDevany
 
Let's try a dry run next November with a twist. Insist that each candidate present their views on government spending and vote for the one you like best.

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Aug 23, 2013 10:35:54   #
Albert Maslar Loc: Absecon, NJ
 
AuntiE wrote:
Be assured, no one has come up with a more wonky idea on tax reform.

Be assured, the only beverage I have consumed today is the "wine of the South", sweet tea.

It would be my hope that comments be civil and not denigrating. We could actually have fun with this "wonky" plan.

Before the "Citizens Tax Plan", I will start with the budget plan.

An across the board hiring freeze for all federal agencies goes into effect October 1, beginning of the government fiscal year. Excluding Medicare, Medicaid, Social Security and Veteran's Health Benefits/Pensions, a 12% across the board reduction to all federal agencies. I have NO valid reason for the 12% choice except I liked the number. Remember "wonky"!

Wonky "Citizens Tax Plan:

On January 1st of every year, a list of all Federal Agencies will be issued to citizens. Each agency will provide a five line "bullet" point description of the agency's major functions. A separate list of all agencies (without description) will be included in the package.

On April 15th, each citizen will submit, with their tax package, this agency listing. Each citizen will choose five agencies for which they want their tax money utilized. The end result would be you and I determine what we support. If (my ultimate wish), the Dept. of Education was selected by no one, they cease to exist by the end of the fiscal year.

Hopefully, no one has had to scream "MEDIC". Forum now open.

Remember civil, please.
Be assured, no one has come up with a more wonky i... (show quote)


Tax Everyone, NOT Flat Tax, Solves Problem Of Proverbial 47%
Basically, Flat Tax features one low tax rate with no deductions or special interest loopholes. Flat Tax will not solve problems resulting from lack of participation in funding government by the proverbial 47% who pay no income taxes; consequently they will pay NO Flat Tax either. Only the names will have been changed to protect the guilty.
The VAT tax is European style consumption tax that is rife with loopholes and gross avoidance, and has resulted in EU VAT rates in the mid 20% range which is totally counter-productive.
The answer to the present income tax code is not the Flat Tax, but a tax that applies equally to all, and as encompassed in the Maslar “Three-Page Tax Plan” (TPTP) that imposes a no-exception, no exemption 3% National Sales Tax (NST) across the board, taking the poisonous sting out of lobbyist fangs.
TPTP makes spending of all organizations, for profit or not, along with 100% of the population, illegal or not, whether income is from legal sources or not, or from under the table, drugs, crime, investment, gift, or whatever, subject to the 3% NST when spent. According to a study published by Lanny Davis in ‘The Hill” tax revenues would be about $4 Trillion for budget, $4 Trillion to pay down National Debt, and $4 Trillion for Universal MediCare (UMC) for every legal resident in the US. UMC will save many States from bankruptcy, as State administered budget-busting Medicaid will no longer be necessary.
Wall Street type transactions would be taxed at 1/2 of 1%, putting smaller investors on a par with giants that do "High Frequency Trading (HFT) in nano seconds while ordinary investors are the first to lose and the last to gain. Programming errors caused panic that dropped a thousand points on the Dow Jones Industrial Average in minutes.
Congressional Budget Office (CBO) must score the TFTP, but it takes a Representative to do the submission, difficult for an individual, as most Representatives ask for zip code first but do not allow e-mails from anyone outside their district.
To further uncomplicate present unintelligible tax laws, nuisance and death taxes would be eliminated. In the event NST does not produce the $12 Trillion annual revenue projected, there would be a simplified Income Tax (SIT) that treats ALL income equally; no loopholes, special treatment, exceptions, or exemptions. SIT reduces income tax rates to a graduated 20% max, for all entities, personal and business. The following are examples of effective tax rates under the SIT plan:
Effective tax rate on Taxable Income of $100,000 2.74%
Effective tax rate on Taxable Income of $1 Million 7.47%
Effective tax rate on Taxable Income of $1 Billion 19.88%
Once the NST functions and produces tax revenues as projected, the IRS would be history as well as the temporary SIT.
“Three-Page Tax Plan” and/or Six-Page” Plan To Fix It All” available from albertmaslar2@gmail.com

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Aug 23, 2013 11:32:49   #
andrew998 Loc: NYC
 
Albert Maslar wrote:
Tax Everyone, NOT Flat Tax, Solves Problem Of Proverbial 47%
Basically, Flat Tax features one low tax rate with no deductions or special interest loopholes. Flat Tax will not solve problems resulting from lack of participation in funding government by the proverbial 47% who pay no income taxes; consequently they will pay NO Flat Tax either. Only the names will have been changed to protect the guilty.
The VAT tax is European style consumption tax that is rife with loopholes and gross avoidance, and has resulted in EU VAT rates in the mid 20% range which is totally counter-productive.
The answer to the present income tax code is not the Flat Tax, but a tax that applies equally to all, and as encompassed in the Maslar “Three-Page Tax Plan” (TPTP) that imposes a no-exception, no exemption 3% National Sales Tax (NST) across the board, taking the poisonous sting out of lobbyist fangs.
TPTP makes spending of all organizations, for profit or not, along with 100% of the population, illegal or not, whether income is from legal sources or not, or from under the table, drugs, crime, investment, gift, or whatever, subject to the 3% NST when spent. According to a study published by Lanny Davis in ‘The Hill” tax revenues would be about $4 Trillion for budget, $4 Trillion to pay down National Debt, and $4 Trillion for Universal MediCare (UMC) for every legal resident in the US. UMC will save many States from bankruptcy, as State administered budget-busting Medicaid will no longer be necessary.
Wall Street type transactions would be taxed at 1/2 of 1%, putting smaller investors on a par with giants that do "High Frequency Trading (HFT) in nano seconds while ordinary investors are the first to lose and the last to gain. Programming errors caused panic that dropped a thousand points on the Dow Jones Industrial Average in minutes.
Congressional Budget Office (CBO) must score the TFTP, but it takes a Representative to do the submission, difficult for an individual, as most Representatives ask for zip code first but do not allow e-mails from anyone outside their district.
To further uncomplicate present unintelligible tax laws, nuisance and death taxes would be eliminated. In the event NST does not produce the $12 Trillion annual revenue projected, there would be a simplified Income Tax (SIT) that treats ALL income equally; no loopholes, special treatment, exceptions, or exemptions. SIT reduces income tax rates to a graduated 20% max, for all entities, personal and business. The following are examples of effective tax rates under the SIT plan:
Effective tax rate on Taxable Income of $100,000 2.74%
Effective tax rate on Taxable Income of $1 Million 7.47%
Effective tax rate on Taxable Income of $1 Billion 19.88%
Once the NST functions and produces tax revenues as projected, the IRS would be history as well as the temporary SIT.
“Three-Page Tax Plan” and/or Six-Page” Plan To Fix It All” available from albertmaslar2@gmail.com
Tax Everyone, NOT Flat Tax, Solves Problem Of Prov... (show quote)


The current tax revenue is about $1.2 Trillion. Your figures of "‘The Hill” tax revenues would be about $4 Trillion for budget, $4 Trillion to pay down National Debt, and $4 Trillion for Universal MediCare" I presume is over a 10 year period then? Please explain.

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Aug 23, 2013 11:37:49   #
Albert Maslar Loc: Absecon, NJ
 
andrew998 wrote:
The current tax revenue is about $1.2 Trillion. Your figures of "‘The Hill” tax revenues would be about $4 Trillion for budget, $4 Trillion to pay down National Debt, and $4 Trillion for Universal MediCare" I presume is over a 10 year period then? Please explain.


If the figures published by The Hill, derived from government sources are accurate, the $12 Trillion is the total annual revenue for budget, debt, and Universal Medicare for all legal residents. The plan requires annual filing of a new simplified tax return that would be used for annual census, and to determine the deductible and co-pay for each individual. Copy of plan available from albertmaslar2@gmail.com

Reply
Aug 23, 2013 13:30:44   #
PoppaGringo Loc: Muslim City, Mexifornia, B.R.
 
Ghost wrote:
Well I just had this thought that if the Democrats don't want to be called the communist party then can we call them the party of "do we fuck you and how?" Albeit vulgar in regular conversation but I think it'll get the point across.


Yes Ghost it is vulgar. However, can we not inquire of them; 'How do we keep you from procreating'?

Perhaps we could send them all to 'live' with Manning in his soon to be 'new digs'. That should solve the problem, ist das nicht wahr?

Reply
Aug 23, 2013 14:24:38   #
andrew998 Loc: NYC
 
mwdegutis wrote:
I wrote this back during the "fiscal cliff crisis". I feel it still applies...

Concerning the so-called fiscal cliff, for those of you who remember…as Gary Gilmore said, “Let’s do it!”

However as a side note to the fiscal cliff “crisis”…I’ve spent a lot of time…too much time I’m sure my wife will say…contemplating OUR country’s financial situation, the fiscal cliff, etc. and have come to the following simplistic (we need simple) conclusion to solve our budget crisis RIGHT NOW. It involves EVERYONE and if people don’t like it I really don’t care, it's solving our country's financial issues, not arguing which side has the power, won or lost, etc...I’m looking at it from the perspective if it were my own finances. Here goes:

1) Cut all federal employees wages by 25 percent (They would still be 10 percent above the private sector) – over $440 billion savings over ten years
2) Do whatever it takes to raise tax REVENUES from personal income taxes that includes EVERYONE by 5 percent
3) Reinstate the 6.2 percent SS tax rate from 4.2 percent while no longer having an income cap on it
4) Cut federal spending ACROSS THE BOARD by 22.5 percent – I recall several instances in my business life where I’ve been tasked with cutting expenses by a certain percentage…end of story

Moving forward, we will have “stopped the bleeding”, have a balanced budget, and we can now attack OUR over $16 trillion debt. Like I said, it’s simple but us idiots need simple.

I can already hear one thing…what about them greedy corporations. Again simplistically, I’m looking at it from the perspective that ALL business is the driver that HIRES and EMPLOYS this nation and the workers in those businesses ultimately drive our economy, NOT government. So we need business “plugging along” keeping people employed so the people have money they EARNED to keep this economy moving. Wow, that American Dream...what a concept.

Just my two cents for what it’s worth…
I wrote this back during the "fiscal cliff cr... (show quote)


I understand your proposal but the American economy always responds to stimulus or lack of same in odd ways. If we tax the middle class more, he will spend less. Thats not the effect we want. If the government spends less, then there is less stimulus which further delays recovery.

The best of all worlds is to have the economy booming again, low unemployment, wage earners earning more, thereby paying more taxes. The government uses the excess to pay down the deficit. In fact, Romney's economic plan depended on exactly that. In order to try to get there, the economy needs stimulus and it is currently being provided by the Fed buying Treasuries from banks so the banks will have money to lend. By trying to get unemployed people back to work again rebuilding the infrastructure so they will start paying taxes again too. Its unfortunate that it costs so much to accomplish it but the deficit is increasing least this year than any other year. The promise is that it will get paid down but we have to stay out of wars.

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Aug 23, 2013 14:55:42   #
PoppaGringo Loc: Muslim City, Mexifornia, B.R.
 
For mwdegutis:

I could acquiesce to all your suggestions except #2. We don't have a revenue problem, we have a spending problem. Many others have said that, I am just borrowing from them, but I wholeheartedly concur with that allegation.

Reply
Aug 23, 2013 15:18:19   #
saloopo Loc: Colorado
 
Albert Maslar wrote:
If the figures published by The Hill, derived from government sources are accurate, the $12 Trillion is the total annual revenue for budget, debt, and Universal Medicare for all legal residents. The plan requires annual filing of a new simplified tax return that would be used for annual census, and to determine the deductible and co-pay for each individual. Copy of plan available from albertmaslar2@gmail.com


You conveniently avoided Andrews question, is this over a 10 year period ? The value (GDP) of all goods and services produced in the U.S. in 2012 was 15.5 Trillion (approx.). If this plan requires an annual filing as you say, to cover a 12 Trillion budget (currently), that would leave literally nothing left over for the entire population to buy food, pay rent, insurance, maintenance and fuel. Youre suggesting taking the entire production of the nation and transferring it to the government annually. I think i saw this form of taxation once before. It was called slavery.

Reply
Aug 23, 2013 16:31:34   #
andrew998 Loc: NYC
 
Old_Gringo wrote:
For mwdegutis:

I could acquiesce to all your suggestions except #2. We don't have a revenue problem, we have a spending problem. Many others have said that, I am just borrowing from them, but I wholeheartedly concur with that allegation.


When they say to you we have a spending problem, they want you to think that it is being spent on things that are not needed. Just wild spending. Actually, it is investing. The Fed buys $85 Bil of Treasuries from the banks every month so they will have money to loan for mortgages, business loans and the like. In December of this year, the Fed will probably reduce that number now that the economy is in an upswing, he will not need to support it further. Money invested (or spent as they say) to save FNMA and FMCC (approx 150 B) has already been partially paid back ($110B). The Fed also sold its stock in GM, AIG, BOA and others for a profit. The result is a serious reduction in this year's deficit. It will probably be around $500 B. Next year even less. But we have to stay out of wars to get back on track.

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Aug 23, 2013 17:48:17   #
saloopo Loc: Colorado
 
andrew998 wrote:
When they say to you we have a spending problem, they want you to think that it is being spent on things that are not needed. Just wild spending. Actually, it is investing. The Fed buys $85 Bil of Treasuries from the banks every month so they will have money to loan for mortgages, business loans and the like........... Money invested (or spent as they say) to save FNMA and FMCC (approx 150 B) has already been partially paid back ($110B). The Fed also sold its stock in GM, AIG, BOA and others for a profit. The result is a serious reduction in this year's deficit. It will probably be around $500 B. Next year even less. But we have to stay out of wars to get back on track.
When they say to you we have a spending problem, t... (show quote)


To date, the government has recouped about $30.7 billion of the $49.5 billion in bailout funds GM received. The government would need to sell its remaining shares at an average price of about $50 to break even on its investment; even analysts who like the stock don’t think it will get there any time soon. GM shares closed today at 35. Considering the 15 billion profit from the AIG sale (they say) minus the 20 billion loss still outstanding at GM, I would say that the tax payer is still looking at a 5 billion loss. I would also say that your financial evaluation of the goodness of the government bail out is a bunch of crap. I wont even go into fanny mae and freddy mac. Those losses are irretrievable.

Your fairytale about the Fed is particularly hilarious. They even made a U Tube about it. You can watch it here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PTUY16CkS-k&feature=player_embedded

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