Why Does God Allow Evil to Exist?
Apr 23, 2024 18:08:23 #
The great thinker C.S. Lewis (1898-1963) dealt with many of the common objections against Christianity that are still heard today. Lewis once compared the atheist’s arguments against God to an inmate in an asylum writing the word “darkness” over and over on the wall. The arguments framed against God succeed in blotting Him out to the same degree that the insane person’s fixation on “darkness” shuts off the reality of the sun: In other words — not at all.
One of the most common reasons that skeptics give for rejecting God or the Gospel relates to the problems of pain, evil, and suffering in the world. Many atheists and agnostics (including recent luminaries of unbelief, such as Christopher Hitchens, Michael Shermer, Bart Ehrman, and others) have raised this objection in many ways. The “problem of evil” is often stated like this: If God were wise, good, and powerful, the world would not be the way it is. But the world is full of violence, suffering, injustice, sickness, and very often those who suffer most are innocent victims.
The atheist reasons as follows: “This world of deceit, danger, and death would be different if God were truly real. Either He (#1) doesn’t know how to fix it, Or, perhaps (#2) He is malicious and doesn’t want to fix it. Or maybe (#3) God wants to fix it but is unable.”
Think about this: If the cause of evil is (#1), then God is not truly wise. If (#2) God is not wholly good. If evil exists and persists because of (#3), then He is not all-powerful. In any case, atheism assumes that a classically orthodox view of God cannot be maintained. Pain and suffering must prove God is not omniscient, omnibenevolent, or omnipotent. Therefore, the skeptic says, the biblical God must not exist.
Think about this.
In order to respond to objections based on the problem of evil, we have to ask ourselves, “How is it that we humans are able to judge anything as ‘good’ or ‘bad?’” Let’s reign in the hubris, and be honest, here: Without an objective standard from which to measure, all we say about good, or evil is mere bloviation. Erase God (the ultimate standard of good by which we measure) from our logic tree, and can we meaningfully recognize something as right or wrong? No.
When we say that one thing is good, or another thing is bad — what we are really doing is assessing their value as it relates to something else. And that “something else” that we measure by is . . . God. Deep down, we understand that God is the ultimate — the ultimate foundation of goodness, love, power, virtue, beauty, wisdom, mercy, holiness, etc. (Romans 1:20). Put together every positive characteristic you can think of, and multiplied to the nth degree, and that conglomeration of everything “good,” is God.
When we say that Mother Theresa was “good” and Osama Bin Laden was “bad,” what we are really saying is this: Her life and actions conformed more closely to any ultimate standard of good than did his. Think about these contrasts: “It is better to care for orphans than to torture them,” or, “Feeding the hungry is moral, whereas placing bets on how long it would take them to starve is immoral.” We know that the first proposition conforms more closely to an ultimate standard of goodness than does the second. By a looong way.
In a world without God, nothing could be beautiful. Or ugly.
Each of us regularly makes value judgments about morals and aesthetics. We say, “This was heroic,” or, “That was treasonous.” We may observe, “This song is beautiful,” whereas, “That jackhammer is noisy.” We could only make such value judgments because there is an ultimate and unchanging standard against which we measure. Herein lies the atheist’s problem: If there is no God, how can you legitimately praise the good and condemn the evil?
The answer is you can’t. Not in any legitimate, objective sense. Without God, all we're left with is a noisy room full of opinions. And in that context, why is the atheist’s more valid than that of the Christian? If this is a world without objective values, and all life arose from blind, evolutionary chance, then why would we assume the atheist’s musings against God are any more coherent than the inflections of a barking dog?
Without God as our reference point, there’s no good or bad — only “stuff.” The most we could note is, “Things happen.” Meaningful judgment beyond that is not possible.
Make the “ruler” your own personal “Ruler.”
It takes humility and maturity to really accept this, but the evil in the world simply shows how desperately we need a Savior and Lord. Some people are honest and wise enough to accept this by age five or six. Others live eight or nine decades never yielding to it.
Because God is the ground of truth, goodness, and yes, beauty — we are able to discern and make sense of the world. Be glad for this the next time you hear a skeptic railing against God because of pain and evil in the world. Because a pervasively righteous God does exist, each human possesses (and may cultivate) a moral conscience and aesthetic sensibilities. Are love and truth preferable over narcissism and wokeness? Would forcibly keeping the southern border open be morally just, at the expense of the welfare of American citizens?
Because God exists, we actually can know the answers to these and many other important questions…including more significant questions of life, death, and eternity.
One of the most common reasons that skeptics give for rejecting God or the Gospel relates to the problems of pain, evil, and suffering in the world. Many atheists and agnostics (including recent luminaries of unbelief, such as Christopher Hitchens, Michael Shermer, Bart Ehrman, and others) have raised this objection in many ways. The “problem of evil” is often stated like this: If God were wise, good, and powerful, the world would not be the way it is. But the world is full of violence, suffering, injustice, sickness, and very often those who suffer most are innocent victims.
The atheist reasons as follows: “This world of deceit, danger, and death would be different if God were truly real. Either He (#1) doesn’t know how to fix it, Or, perhaps (#2) He is malicious and doesn’t want to fix it. Or maybe (#3) God wants to fix it but is unable.”
Think about this: If the cause of evil is (#1), then God is not truly wise. If (#2) God is not wholly good. If evil exists and persists because of (#3), then He is not all-powerful. In any case, atheism assumes that a classically orthodox view of God cannot be maintained. Pain and suffering must prove God is not omniscient, omnibenevolent, or omnipotent. Therefore, the skeptic says, the biblical God must not exist.
Think about this.
In order to respond to objections based on the problem of evil, we have to ask ourselves, “How is it that we humans are able to judge anything as ‘good’ or ‘bad?’” Let’s reign in the hubris, and be honest, here: Without an objective standard from which to measure, all we say about good, or evil is mere bloviation. Erase God (the ultimate standard of good by which we measure) from our logic tree, and can we meaningfully recognize something as right or wrong? No.
When we say that one thing is good, or another thing is bad — what we are really doing is assessing their value as it relates to something else. And that “something else” that we measure by is . . . God. Deep down, we understand that God is the ultimate — the ultimate foundation of goodness, love, power, virtue, beauty, wisdom, mercy, holiness, etc. (Romans 1:20). Put together every positive characteristic you can think of, and multiplied to the nth degree, and that conglomeration of everything “good,” is God.
When we say that Mother Theresa was “good” and Osama Bin Laden was “bad,” what we are really saying is this: Her life and actions conformed more closely to any ultimate standard of good than did his. Think about these contrasts: “It is better to care for orphans than to torture them,” or, “Feeding the hungry is moral, whereas placing bets on how long it would take them to starve is immoral.” We know that the first proposition conforms more closely to an ultimate standard of goodness than does the second. By a looong way.
In a world without God, nothing could be beautiful. Or ugly.
Each of us regularly makes value judgments about morals and aesthetics. We say, “This was heroic,” or, “That was treasonous.” We may observe, “This song is beautiful,” whereas, “That jackhammer is noisy.” We could only make such value judgments because there is an ultimate and unchanging standard against which we measure. Herein lies the atheist’s problem: If there is no God, how can you legitimately praise the good and condemn the evil?
The answer is you can’t. Not in any legitimate, objective sense. Without God, all we're left with is a noisy room full of opinions. And in that context, why is the atheist’s more valid than that of the Christian? If this is a world without objective values, and all life arose from blind, evolutionary chance, then why would we assume the atheist’s musings against God are any more coherent than the inflections of a barking dog?
Without God as our reference point, there’s no good or bad — only “stuff.” The most we could note is, “Things happen.” Meaningful judgment beyond that is not possible.
Make the “ruler” your own personal “Ruler.”
It takes humility and maturity to really accept this, but the evil in the world simply shows how desperately we need a Savior and Lord. Some people are honest and wise enough to accept this by age five or six. Others live eight or nine decades never yielding to it.
Because God is the ground of truth, goodness, and yes, beauty — we are able to discern and make sense of the world. Be glad for this the next time you hear a skeptic railing against God because of pain and evil in the world. Because a pervasively righteous God does exist, each human possesses (and may cultivate) a moral conscience and aesthetic sensibilities. Are love and truth preferable over narcissism and wokeness? Would forcibly keeping the southern border open be morally just, at the expense of the welfare of American citizens?
Because God exists, we actually can know the answers to these and many other important questions…including more significant questions of life, death, and eternity.
Apr 23, 2024 19:08:23 #
Parky60 wrote:
The great thinker C.S. Lewis (1898-1963) dealt wit... (show quote)
No, you don't. There has yet to be an argument for god that wasn't a logical fallacy. But a logical fallacy isn't a proof of god and without that proof, the best you can have is 'faith' that what you believe is true. So be happy with that but don't think that gives you the ability to know what happens when we die. We die, and that's the only thing of certainty that we know...
Apr 23, 2024 23:10:32 #
PeterS wrote:
No, you don't. There has yet to be an argument for god that wasn't a logical fallacy. But a logical fallacy isn't a proof of god and without that proof, the best you can have is 'faith' that what you believe is true. So be happy with that but don't think that gives you the ability to know what happens when we die. We die, and that's the only thing of certainty that we know...
We know what will happen when YOU die
Apr 24, 2024 00:43:36 #
guzzimaestro wrote:
We know what will happen when YOU die
Yeah, just like you...I'll be dead. Or do you have a proof for god that isn't built around a logical fallacy? If not, then stick to your faith because if that's not enough then you ain't got nothing...
Apr 24, 2024 07:52:10 #
PeterS wrote:
Yeah, just like you...I'll be dead. Or do you have a proof for god that isn't built around a logical fallacy? If not, then stick to your faith because if that's not enough then you ain't got nothing...
I'll keep my faith. You keep your hate.
Apr 24, 2024 07:59:38 #
guzzimaestro wrote:
I'll keep my faith. You keep your hate.
"Logical fallacy" is one of Pete's favorite phrases. He slings it around often when he has no other argument.
Apr 24, 2024 08:02:27 #
PeterS wrote:
No, you don't. There has yet to be an argument for god that wasn't a logical fallacy. But a logical fallacy isn't a proof of god and without that proof, the best you can have is 'faith' that what you believe is true. So be happy with that but don't think that gives you the ability to know what happens when we die. We die, and that's the only thing of certainty that we know...
What may be known about God is plain to people, because God has made it plain to them. For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse. Romans 1:19-20
You have no excuse Pete.
Apr 24, 2024 08:27:33 #
Parky60 wrote:
"Logical fallacy" is one of Pete's favorite phrases. He slings it around often when he has no other argument.
🙏Apr 24, 2024 15:26:39 #
There is a spark of God in everyone of us. GOD ALLOWED free will. So God is in good and evil. He has realized that free will has had unusually bad effects on planet earth and the parts of this universe which it has been allowed. He has seen that with free will there is someone who always needs to CONTROL AS has happened to us through out the ages. And what has that control amounted to right now. It hS escalated to so much evil that we are all going from the 3rd dimension to the 4th dimension which has never been done before in the history of any universe.that is why time is speeding up. People are becoming Awake and more psychic and becoming more aware of their inner being and or their higher selves. Beings from all over our solar system are visiting to witness this spectacular event that's never happened ever. The outcome will be a new existence where the lion lays down with the lamb. The whole earth in peace, happiness and bliss.
Apr 24, 2024 18:25:06 #
guzzimaestro wrote:
I'll keep my faith. You keep your hate.
Ah, so because I believe in Reason and not Superstician I hate? What, who? Your god, you? That's the best you can do? Since man first crawled out of the ocean, shed his tail, and stood on two feet his ignorance of the world around him gave him gods. Hundreds. No, thousands of them. So now you think you finally figured out the right god and you've got him? Good luck with that. Everyone who believes in 'a' god believes their god is the one. So stick to your faith and when the big sleep comes neither of us will have to worry about the words of the other...and no, I don't hate you or your god.
Besides...
Apr 24, 2024 18:30:01 #
Parky60 wrote:
What may be known about God is plain to people, because God has made it plain to them. For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse. Romans 1:19-20
You have no excuse Pete.
You have no excuse Pete.
Why would I need to make any?
Apr 24, 2024 18:33:49 #
Parky60 wrote:
"Logical fallacy" is one of Pete's favorite phrases. He slings it around often when he has no other argument.
If you use reason what other argument do you need to make? Have you honestly lost your ability to engage your brain before you allow words to tumble out of it?
Apr 24, 2024 18:49:43 #
PeterS wrote:
Why would I need to make any?
Sorry, I forgot you can't understand spiritual things... my bad.
But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; nor can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned. 1 Corinthians 2:14
Apr 24, 2024 18:52:35 #
PeterS wrote:
If you use reason what other argument do you need to make? Have you honestly lost your ability to engage your brain before you allow words to tumble out of it?
Here's what I think of your "reason" Pete...
For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God. For it is written: “I will destroy the wisdom of the wise; the intelligence of the intelligent I will frustrate.” 1 Corinthians 1:18-19
Apr 24, 2024 20:07:16 #
Parky60 wrote:
The great thinker C.S. Lewis (1898-1963) dealt wit... (show quote)
Even God needs to amuse Himself from time to time.
If you want to reply, then register here. Registration is free and your account is created instantly, so you can post right away.