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Donald Trump is Right about NATO
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Feb 21, 2024 19:53:51   #
tomhoff24
 
archie bunker wrote:
Shame you chose the last one.


Haha! You are funny!

Reply
Feb 21, 2024 19:56:47   #
America 1 Loc: South Miami
 
tomhoff24 wrote:
You are trying to kid us. Russia is a dictatorship.


THE RUSSIAN REPUBLIC PROCLAIMED
14) September 1917 upon a decree of the Provisional Government, the Russian Republic was proclaimed.

After the revolutionary events of February 1917, in Russia at the same time were created two authorities - the power of the bourgeoisie represented by the Provisional Government and the revolutionary-democratic dictatorship of the proletariat and the peasantry - the Soviets. 3 (16) July 1917 in Petrograd began spontaneous demonstrations of soldiers, workers and sailors against the government which led to the July political crisis that resulted in the end of the period of "dual power" and a shift of power to the hands of the Provisional Government.
1 (14) September 1917 according to the Decree of the Provisional Government, Russia was proclaimed a republic. All issues of the future structure of Russia were under jurisdiction of the Constituent Assembly.
https://www.prlib.ru/en/history/619540#:~:text=1%20(14)%20September%201917%20according,jurisdiction%20of%20the%20Constituent%20Assembly.

Reply
Feb 21, 2024 21:20:35   #
archie bunker Loc: Texas
 
tomhoff24 wrote:
Haha! You are funny!


I wasn't kidding

Reply
 
 
Feb 22, 2024 08:31:28   #
Snoopy
 
AuntiE wrote:
Donald Trump is Right about NATO
By: Steve McCann

As he is wont to do, Donald Trump caused heads to explode among the American political establishment and legacy media when he recalled an encounter he had with an unnamed president “of a big country” regarding the North Atlantic Treaty Organization (NATO). In Trump’s telling, the leader asked him, “Well sir, if we don’t pay and we’re attacked by Russia, will you protect us?” Trump answered by saying: “No, I would not protect you. In fact, I would encourage them to do whatever the hell they want. You gotta pay.”

Almost immediately, an avalanche of shopworn accusations of Trump being a Putin sycophant determined to surrender Europe to the tender mercies of a rampaging Russia filled the airwaves and saturated the internet allowing the Democrats and their mouthpieces in the legacy media to reprise the long-debunked Russia collusion hoax of 2016-17.

Apparently, Trump also stunned many European leaders and much of the European media. So much so that the New York Times ran an article titled “An Outburst by Trump on NATO May Push Europe to Go It Alone” as more European leaders are now quietly discussing among themselves how they might prepare for the possibility that America removes itself from being the centerpiece of the alliance.

The leaders of Europe are finally beginning to understand the views of a majority of Americans, who are increasingly concerned about the seemingly endless litany of near-intractable domestic crises, the skyrocketing national debt, and the dire future of the United States.

In a recent Pew poll, 55% of Americans say that the U.S. should pay less attention to problems overseas and concentrate on problems at home, while 43% say the U.S. should be active in world affairs.

History has shown that, once the stated purpose of a military alliance no longer exists, it must be either dramatically altered or disbanded, or it will assume other purposes that inevitably lead to chaos. The hierarchy of NATO is now promoting the globalist version of DEI (Diversity, Equity, and Inclusion) as the guiding policy of the alliance.

As part of that shift, they have taken the position that the first line of defense is no longer a military one but, instead, one of censoring and controlling the free citizens of the member states to make certain that “disinformation” does not affect the “proper outcome” of elections among the nations of NATO.

Through NATO, America has been the primary military protector of Western Europe for 75 years. Over that time, America’s direct expenditures (military footprint, surveillance, and military aid) within Europe have amounted to approximately $4.0 Trillion (in 2024 dollars) in addition to the nuclear umbrella and naval forces of the United States that have protected the nations of Europe for three-quarters of a century.

NATO and these expenditures were a necessity when a nuclearized and aggressively belligerent Soviet Union was the major threat to global peace, but that threat ended in 1991.

The original purpose of NATO no longer exists, and the alliance has abandoned its founding principles. Therefore, once the inevitable negotiated settlement of the war in Ukraine occurs, and if Trump is President, he must inform European countries that the United States will, over a three-year timeline, exit its active participation in NATO by removing its military presence from the continent and initiating a new limited membership in the alliance, forcing the European nations of NATO to reform the alliance and take seriously their responsibility to protect their interests.

The key factors in canceling active participation in NATO are 1) grossly unbalanced financial commitments, 2) radical policy positions, and 3) the obligations the United States has assumed under the NATO Charter, namely Article 5, which states:

The parties agree that an armed attack against one or more of them in Europe or North America shall be considered an attack against all of them and consequently they agree that if such an armed attack occurs each of them… will assist the Party or Parties so attacked by taking… such action as it deems necessary, including the use of armed forces, to restore the security of the North Atlantic area.

Because of Article 5, the United States cannot avoid becoming involved in either refereeing or actively participating in any military or security squabbles among European countries. Therefore, after America’s announcement that it is ceasing active participation in NATO, Article 5 should be amended as follows:

The parties agree that an armed attack against one or more of them in Europe shall be considered an attack against all of them and consequently they agree that if such an armed attack occurs each of them will assist the Party or Parties so attacked with the understanding that the participation of the United States and the use of its armed forces will be subject to approval by the Congress of the United States.

The process of amending the charter should have begun after the unprecedented collapse and fragmentation of the Soviet Union in 1991 and accelerated in 1993 when the European Union, with unified economic, social, and security policies, came into being. It was the ideal political vehicle for Europe to assume the burden of self-defense after the collapse of the Soviet Union.

The European Union plus Great Britain has a population three and a half times larger (512 million vs. 144 million) and a Gross Domestic Product nearly ten times larger ($20.0 Trillion vs $2.2 Trillion) than Russia's.

European duplicity combined with the American political class’s need to have an evil foreign adversary to pillory has kept an American-dominated NATO alive long past its expiration date. In their myopia, the global elites redefined NATO’s original purpose by not only expanding but conferring what was once a justifiable fear of the Soviet Union upon its significantly smaller and far less formidable successor, Russia.

Since 1991, NATO has expanded to 31 nations by adding 15 new members. All, except for Finland, were formerly independent nations occupied by the Soviet Union, including some bordering Russia. Perhaps understandably, Russian paranoia was dramatically exacerbated.

This centuries-old paranoia, the demonization by the American ruling elites, and the threat of allowing former Soviet Republics, such as Ukraine, to join NATO, combined with rampant internal corruption, undermined Russia’s democratization efforts and led to the ascension of a new Russian autocratic oligarchy led by a brutal and megalomaniacal Vladimir Putin as exemplified by his ruthlessness within Russia and the invasion of Ukraine.

In 2008, the United States and NATO duplicitously agreed to add Ukraine as a member of NATO. There were also overt discussions in June of 2021 between the Biden Administration and Volodymyr Zelensky about Ukraine joining NATO. In reality, Ukraine was never going to be allowed to join NATO.

If the United States and NATO had been honest with the Ukrainians about their actual intention of never allowing them to join NATO and subsequently armed them with sufficient weaponry to thwart a potential invasion, war could have been avoided.

The years-long mating dance between NATO and Ukraine was the pretext, and Joe Biden’s disastrous surrender and withdrawal from Afghanistan was the catalyst that precipitated Putin’s fateful decision to invade Ukraine.

After twenty-four months, the death of untold thousands on both sides and a stalemate reminiscent of World War I, Russia has been exposed as a military paper tiger with only its nuclear arsenal and immense fossil-fuel reserves propping it up as a major player on the international scene. Ukraine has been exposed to be what it has always been since its independence from the Soviet Union: a nation with a quasi-authoritarian government rife with unbridled corruption.

The nations of Europe are fully capable of dealing with Russia and other European security matters. The United States must focus on its nearly intractable domestic problems and a far greater global threat than Russia: Communist China.

I know it will be a challenge for our progressives; however, ignore the words Donald Trump and focus on whether the writer is correct conour continuing membership in NATO
b Donald Trump is Right about NATO /b br By: Ste... (show quote)


AUNTIE: NATO members want the protection BUT want Uncle Sap to foot the bill!

Snoopy

Reply
Feb 22, 2024 09:26:04   #
okie don
 
tomhoff24 wrote:
Haha! You are funny!

~~~~~~~
Tom,
Wake up and face reality.
Russia is no longer a communist nation.
NATO was established to protect nations when it was. NATO is no longer needed.
We are $34 TRILLION in debt and are no longer the world's reserve currency nation.
The "Petrodollar" is history.
Our politicians need to concern themselves with our country not Ukcraine. This open border is ruining our nation. Now you even see the schools suffering and in Massachusetts they want national guard in the school as fights are breaking out.
Our nation,thanks to bathhouse Barry is becoming a Shit hole banana Republic.
Face REALITY Tomas...🤔

Reply
Feb 22, 2024 13:16:29   #
martsiva
 
BIRDMAN wrote:
How did NATO come to our Aid.By attacking a country that had nothing to do with 911


I would LOVE to see anyone answer this question because it`s a good one!!

Reply
Feb 22, 2024 17:19:51   #
LostAggie66 Loc: Corpus Christi, TX (Shire of Seawinds)
 
AuntiE wrote:
Donald Trump is Right about NATO
By: Steve McCann

As he is wont to do, Donald Trump caused heads to explode among the American political establishment and legacy media when he recalled an encounter he had with an unnamed president “of a big country” regarding the North Atlantic Treaty Organization (NATO). In Trump’s telling, the leader asked him, “Well sir, if we don’t pay and we’re attacked by Russia, will you protect us?” Trump answered by saying: “No, I would not protect you. In fact, I would encourage them to do whatever the hell they want. You gotta pay.”

Almost immediately, an avalanche of shopworn accusations of Trump being a Putin sycophant determined to surrender Europe to the tender mercies of a rampaging Russia filled the airwaves and saturated the internet allowing the Democrats and their mouthpieces in the legacy media to reprise the long-debunked Russia collusion hoax of 2016-17.

Apparently, Trump also stunned many European leaders and much of the European media. So much so that the New York Times ran an article titled “An Outburst by Trump on NATO May Push Europe to Go It Alone” as more European leaders are now quietly discussing among themselves how they might prepare for the possibility that America removes itself from being the centerpiece of the alliance.

The leaders of Europe are finally beginning to understand the views of a majority of Americans, who are increasingly concerned about the seemingly endless litany of near-intractable domestic crises, the skyrocketing national debt, and the dire future of the United States.

In a recent Pew poll, 55% of Americans say that the U.S. should pay less attention to problems overseas and concentrate on problems at home, while 43% say the U.S. should be active in world affairs.

History has shown that, once the stated purpose of a military alliance no longer exists, it must be either dramatically altered or disbanded, or it will assume other purposes that inevitably lead to chaos. The hierarchy of NATO is now promoting the globalist version of DEI (Diversity, Equity, and Inclusion) as the guiding policy of the alliance.

As part of that shift, they have taken the position that the first line of defense is no longer a military one but, instead, one of censoring and controlling the free citizens of the member states to make certain that “disinformation” does not affect the “proper outcome” of elections among the nations of NATO.

Through NATO, America has been the primary military protector of Western Europe for 75 years. Over that time, America’s direct expenditures (military footprint, surveillance, and military aid) within Europe have amounted to approximately $4.0 Trillion (in 2024 dollars) in addition to the nuclear umbrella and naval forces of the United States that have protected the nations of Europe for three-quarters of a century.

NATO and these expenditures were a necessity when a nuclearized and aggressively belligerent Soviet Union was the major threat to global peace, but that threat ended in 1991.

The original purpose of NATO no longer exists, and the alliance has abandoned its founding principles. Therefore, once the inevitable negotiated settlement of the war in Ukraine occurs, and if Trump is President, he must inform European countries that the United States will, over a three-year timeline, exit its active participation in NATO by removing its military presence from the continent and initiating a new limited membership in the alliance, forcing the European nations of NATO to reform the alliance and take seriously their responsibility to protect their interests.

The key factors in canceling active participation in NATO are 1) grossly unbalanced financial commitments, 2) radical policy positions, and 3) the obligations the United States has assumed under the NATO Charter, namely Article 5, which states:

The parties agree that an armed attack against one or more of them in Europe or North America shall be considered an attack against all of them and consequently they agree that if such an armed attack occurs each of them… will assist the Party or Parties so attacked by taking… such action as it deems necessary, including the use of armed forces, to restore the security of the North Atlantic area.

Because of Article 5, the United States cannot avoid becoming involved in either refereeing or actively participating in any military or security squabbles among European countries. Therefore, after America’s announcement that it is ceasing active participation in NATO, Article 5 should be amended as follows:

The parties agree that an armed attack against one or more of them in Europe shall be considered an attack against all of them and consequently they agree that if such an armed attack occurs each of them will assist the Party or Parties so attacked with the understanding that the participation of the United States and the use of its armed forces will be subject to approval by the Congress of the United States.

The process of amending the charter should have begun after the unprecedented collapse and fragmentation of the Soviet Union in 1991 and accelerated in 1993 when the European Union, with unified economic, social, and security policies, came into being. It was the ideal political vehicle for Europe to assume the burden of self-defense after the collapse of the Soviet Union.

The European Union plus Great Britain has a population three and a half times larger (512 million vs. 144 million) and a Gross Domestic Product nearly ten times larger ($20.0 Trillion vs $2.2 Trillion) than Russia's.

European duplicity combined with the American political class’s need to have an evil foreign adversary to pillory has kept an American-dominated NATO alive long past its expiration date. In their myopia, the global elites redefined NATO’s original purpose by not only expanding but conferring what was once a justifiable fear of the Soviet Union upon its significantly smaller and far less formidable successor, Russia.

Since 1991, NATO has expanded to 31 nations by adding 15 new members. All, except for Finland, were formerly independent nations occupied by the Soviet Union, including some bordering Russia. Perhaps understandably, Russian paranoia was dramatically exacerbated.

This centuries-old paranoia, the demonization by the American ruling elites, and the threat of allowing former Soviet Republics, such as Ukraine, to join NATO, combined with rampant internal corruption, undermined Russia’s democratization efforts and led to the ascension of a new Russian autocratic oligarchy led by a brutal and megalomaniacal Vladimir Putin as exemplified by his ruthlessness within Russia and the invasion of Ukraine.

In 2008, the United States and NATO duplicitously agreed to add Ukraine as a member of NATO. There were also overt discussions in June of 2021 between the Biden Administration and Volodymyr Zelensky about Ukraine joining NATO. In reality, Ukraine was never going to be allowed to join NATO.

If the United States and NATO had been honest with the Ukrainians about their actual intention of never allowing them to join NATO and subsequently armed them with sufficient weaponry to thwart a potential invasion, war could have been avoided.

The years-long mating dance between NATO and Ukraine was the pretext, and Joe Biden’s disastrous surrender and withdrawal from Afghanistan was the catalyst that precipitated Putin’s fateful decision to invade Ukraine.

After twenty-four months, the death of untold thousands on both sides and a stalemate reminiscent of World War I, Russia has been exposed as a military paper tiger with only its nuclear arsenal and immense fossil-fuel reserves propping it up as a major player on the international scene. Ukraine has been exposed to be what it has always been since its independence from the Soviet Union: a nation with a quasi-authoritarian government rife with unbridled corruption.

The nations of Europe are fully capable of dealing with Russia and other European security matters. The United States must focus on its nearly intractable domestic problems and a far greater global threat than Russia: Communist China.

I know it will be a challenge for our progressives; however, ignore the words Donald Trump and focus on whether the writer is correct concerning our continuing membership in NATO
b Donald Trump is Right about NATO /b br By: Ste... (show quote)


This was a very interesting article that does make a lot of sense but does it require we leave the organization we helped start.?

Reply
 
 
Feb 22, 2024 17:31:01   #
XXX Loc: Somewhere north of the Mason-Dixon
 
LostAggie66 wrote:
This was a very interesting article that does make a lot of sense but does it require we leave the organization we helped start.?


I believe he is trying to make them pay up.

Reply
Feb 22, 2024 19:05:44   #
American Vet
 
LostAggie66 wrote:
This was a very interesting article that does make a lot of sense but does it require we leave the organization we helped start.?


If the organization is no longer doing its original intent or is not acting properly - absolutely leave it.

Reply
Feb 23, 2024 16:05:49   #
Wickedestoldwolf
 
XXX wrote:
Putin can't take Ukraine. What makes you think he would invade another country.


Only reason this is because your buddy Biden stuck us into it.

Reply
Feb 23, 2024 16:08:00   #
AuntiE Loc: 45th Least Free State
 
BIRDMAN wrote:
How did NATO come to our Aid.By attacking a country that had nothing to do with 911


I see nowhere I said NATO came to our aid. Reread the comment.

Reply
 
 
Feb 23, 2024 16:09:15   #
AuntiE Loc: 45th Least Free State
 
Snoopy wrote:
AUNTIE: NATO members want the protection BUT want Uncle Sap to foot the bill!

Snoopy


No disagreement from me on that statement.

Reply
Feb 23, 2024 16:10:20   #
XXX Loc: Somewhere north of the Mason-Dixon
 
Wickedestoldwolf wrote:
Only reason this is because your buddy Biden stuck us into it.


My buddy Biden? LMAO

Reply
Feb 23, 2024 16:12:30   #
AuntiE Loc: 45th Least Free State
 
LostAggie66 wrote:
This was a very interesting article that does make a lot of sense but does it require we leave the organization we helped start.?


Personally, my inclination is yes.

Reply
Feb 23, 2024 16:13:25   #
AuntiE Loc: 45th Least Free State
 
okie don wrote:
~~~~~~~
Tom,
Wake up and face reality.
Russia is no longer a communist nation.
NATO was established to protect nations when it was. NATO is no longer needed.
We are $34 TRILLION in debt and are no longer the world's reserve currency nation.
The "Petrodollar" is history.
Our politicians need to concern themselves with our country not Ukcraine. This open border is ruining our nation. Now you even see the schools suffering and in Massachusetts they want national guard in the school as fights are breaking out.
Our nation,thanks to bathhouse Barry is becoming a Shit hole banana Republic.
Face REALITY Tomas...🤔
~~~~~~~ br Tom, br Wake up and face reality. br R... (show quote)


Your expectations for Tom are futile.

Reply
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