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Supreme Court hands 2024 election to Democrats!
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Jul 2, 2023 19:22:40   #
son of witless
 
DASHY wrote:
You prefer to pay additional individual income taxes because you want to reduce taxes on Corporations and wealthy individuals. Are you one of them?


More blatant class warfare to justify the raiding of the US Treasury by the Democratic Party. You are naive, uninformed, ignorant, and unknowing as to how the sausage in DC gets made. You actually think when the Democrats raise taxes on the rich and the evil corporations that taxes on the peons go down. You are so trusting.

When Liberals raise taxes on the rich, at the same time they create ginormous tax loop holes, that their friends and the people who contribute to their political campaigns will take advantage of. But then you do know about those tax loop holes for the well connected, right ?

Reply
Jul 2, 2023 19:36:56   #
JoyV
 
[quote=dwp66][quote=JoyV]Better check your math. One trimester of a human pregnancy is 12 weeks.

You quoted me accurately. But I was not mistaken about the AZ exception for rape. And I believe no rape victim has been denied an abortion in AZ. I was certainly not mistaken that the current AZ laws are more lenient than Roe v Wade.

But while one of my replies addressed the issue of rape victims, my main point overall was to address the false narrative that the loss of Roe v Wade meant women would no longer have the "rights" imparted by Roe. I responded to the claim that abortions are banned in most red states by referencing my own state, AZ and how it's abortion laws are more lenient than Roe v Wade.

I note that your info on abortion laws in different states are not links to the actual laws. The lists published by some left wing organizations or news media are rarely accurate. Even when the lists include the actual wording of the laws, often they are explained with a spin. Depending on the issue, the same can be said for many right wing sources. So instead of getting a third party take on the abortion laws of various states, why not look up the actual laws.

How was Roe v Wade decision more restrictive in AZ? I thought I already stated so. But I'll repeat the main points.

1. Under Roe a woman did not have the right to choose to get an abortion. Her doctor had the authority to choose for her.

2. The doctor did not have to show cause to be allowed to provide or prescribe an abortion. [This one is only more restrictive than the current AZ law because it is the doctor who doesn't need to show cause, i.e. "on demand ", rather than the pregnant woman. ]

3. Abortions were only allowed during the first trimester (first 12 weeks), unless the woman's health or life are at risk, or she was the victim of sexual assault.

Where Roe and the current AZ law are equal are abortions could be protected after the first trimester in cases of the woman's health or life.

The practice of abortions on demand during the entire pregnancy at the choice of the woman was not because Roe v Wade required it. Restrictions were gradually reduced after Roe v Wade until just before the overturn by SCOTUS, some places expanded abortions be legal through the perinatal period. (Perinatal period is 1 to 4 weeks after birth.) That abortion restrictions reduced over time does not mean that these reductions were in Roe v Wade.[/qu

"I note that your info on abortion laws in different states are not links to the actual laws. The lists published by some left wing organizations or news media are rarely accurate. Even when the lists include the actual wording of the laws, often they are explained with a spin. Depending on the issue, the same can be said for many right wing sources. So instead of getting a third party take on the abortion laws of various states, why not look up the actual laws." Of fifty states? Surely you jest.

Can you provide an example of an actual state law and contrast that with a "leftist spin" that had been applied? So far all I see is your opinions. Btw, one need not go to lefty websites to find the data I provided, its widely available from lots of sources as you would see with even a quick search.[/quote]

And are the sources unbiased? When you don't specify a particular source in your search, but search by topic or key words, once you click on one that comes up you HAVE gone to that source.

Here is Arizona law on abortion. And it appears I was correct about rape victims after all. One reason given that an abortion can be performed after 15 weeks is if the woman was a victim of sexual assault.


https://www.azleg.gov/legtext/55leg/1r/bills/sb1457p.htm

Here are 4 leftist spins. [Actually spin is too mild as it is a lie that Arizona bans all abortions after 15 weeks.]

https://www.plannedparenthood.org/planned-parenthood-arizona/get-care/patient-services/abortion-information-for-patients#:~:text=Abortion%20is%20legal%20in%20Arizona,genetic%20abnormality%20is%20not%20permitted.
https://azcapitoltimes.com/news/2023/01/27/arizona-shouldnt-settle-for-bad-abortion-laws/
https://www.acluaz.org/en/issues/abortion-arizona
https://www.guttmacher.org/fact-sheet/state-facts-about-abortion-arizona

The last link includes two bits of info which are classic cases of spin. It states that the number of abortions have gone down in AZ since the law was enacted and provides figures. But it doesn't reveal that those figures are only of those abortions taking place within a clinic. The number of at home medical abortions has increased tremendously. If at home medical abortions were included, the number of abortions would be higher.

Another subtle piece of spin is it also makes no mention of exceptions for victims of sexual assault. No. The law does not say anything about exceptions for rape. But rape most certainly IS a sexual assault. So by using the word rape instead of sexual assault when saying there are no exceptions for rape, they or other sources can say they weren't actually lying.

Reply
Jul 2, 2023 19:38:14   #
DASHY
 
Justice101 wrote:
You are incorrect. The majority of loan borrowers when asked said that they would spend the loan money on other things than building up their credit.

After student loan forgiveness, 73% of borrowers plan to spend more on travel and dining out
https://www.cnbc.com/2022/11/09/how-student-debt-forgiveness-recipients-plan-to-spend.html

Many people including Democrats don't believe that it's fair to cause the middle class to bare the tax expense for those who take out college loans and have others pay for them. This includes people who have paid off their loans, didn't have loans and didn't attend college.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/biden-student-loan-forgiveness-plan-backlash-criticism/

President Biden's plan to forgive between $10,000 and $20,000 of student loan debt for borrowers making less than $125,000 a year has incurred criticism from Republicans, some economists — and even some Democrats.

"The plan, the White House says, will benefit up to 43 million Americans, wiping out billions of dollars of student loan debt. But critics of the debt cancellation argue it will contribute to already high inflation, does nothing to help low-income people who never attended college, is unfair to people who already paid off their student debt, doesn't address the underlying cost of college and even could be struck down by courts."
You are incorrect. The majority of loan borrowers ... (show quote)


Some good arguments on both sides. A couple of things. Debt relief recipients would not see the $10,000 or $20,000 show up in their checking accounts. Remaining balances will be re-amortized, meaning monthly payments will be recalculated to reflect the new smaller balance (if there is one left). Repayment of student loans has already been suspended since March 2020 as part of helping people cope with Covid. If that balance is $10,000 or less, that poor person will realize no extra cash to spend on Pizza night out.

One Republican argument is that the debt relief is unfair to Americans who never attended college. That argument has some merit. It is similar to the argument I hear from wealthy homeowners in my town who squawk about paying school taxes when they have no kids in school. President Biden is on the right track helping kids to go to college.

Reply
Jul 2, 2023 19:42:20   #
DASHY
 
bylm1-Bernie wrote:
Do you really think this attempt by Biden was a fair and just thing to do, DASHY?


Yes.

Reply
Jul 2, 2023 19:45:51   #
DASHY
 
Parky60 wrote:
You claim to be a Christian. You should know.


I guess neither of us has seen specific reference in the Bible about how to handle Christian divorce. The answer depends on our individual interpretation.

Reply
Jul 2, 2023 19:49:33   #
JoyV
 
[quote=dwp66][quote=JoyV]Better check your math. One trimester of a human pregnancy is 12 weeks.

You quoted me accurately. I was mistaken about the AZ exception for rape. But I believe no rape victim has been denied an abortion in AZ. Though not due to the letter of the law. I was not mistaken that the current AZ laws are more lenient than Roe v Wade.

But while one of my replies addressed the issue of rape victims, my main point overall was to address the false narrative that the loss of Roe v Wade meant women would no longer have the "rights" imparted by Roe. I responded to the claim that abortions are banned in most red states by referencing my own state, AZ and how it's abortion laws are more lenient than Roe v Wade.

I note that your info on abortion laws in different states are not links to the actual laws. The lists published by some left wing organizations or news media are rarely accurate. Even when the lists include the actual wording of the laws, often they are explained with a spin. Depending on the issue, the same can be said for many right wing sources. So instead of getting a third party take on the abortion laws of various states, why not look up the actual laws.

How was Roe v Wade decision more restrictive in AZ? I thought I already stated so. But I'll repeat the main points.

1. Under Roe a woman did not have the right to choose to get an abortion. Her doctor had the authority to choose for her.

2. The doctor did not have to show cause to be allowed to provide or prescribe an abortion. [This one is only more restrictive than the current AZ law because it is the doctor who doesn't need to show cause, i.e. "on demand ", rather than the pregnant woman. ]

3. Abortions were only allowed during the first trimester (first 12 weeks), unless the woman's health or life are at risk in the second trimester or her life in the third.

Where Roe and the current AZ law are equal are abortions could be protected after the first trimester in cases of the woman's health or life. But not in the case of rape.

The practice of abortions on demand during the entire pregnancy at the choice of the woman was not because Roe v Wade required it. Restrictions were gradually reduced after Roe v Wade until just before the overturn by SCOTUS, some places expanded abortions be legal through the perinatal period. (Perinatal period is 1 to 4 weeks after birth.) That abortion restrictions reduced over time does not mean that these reductions were in Roe v Wade.[/qu

"I note that your info on abortion laws in different states are not links to the actual laws. The lists published by some left wing organizations or news media are rarely accurate. Even when the lists include the actual wording of the laws, often they are explained with a spin. Depending on the issue, the same can be said for many right wing sources. So instead of getting a third party take on the abortion laws of various states, why not look up the actual laws." Of fifty states? Surely you jest.

Can you provide an example of an actual state law and contrast that with a "leftist spin" that had been applied? So far all I see is your opinions. Btw, one need not go to lefty websites to find the data I provided, its widely available from lots of sources as you would see with even a quick search.[/quote]

*******************************************
I have waited too long to edit this. I did edit it in my latest reply today, July 2nd.

My corrections regard AZ abortion law and rape victims. I had admitted I was wrong in saying AZ law made no exceptions for rape victims. This is only true if you insist on semantics. There are exceptions for sexual assault. The word "rape" is never used. But would anyone deny that rape is a sexual assault?

https://www.azleg.gov/legtext/55leg/1r/bills/sb1457p.htm

Reply
Jul 2, 2023 19:54:26   #
DASHY
 
SeaLass wrote:
One should never make promises that one can not keep, a lesson for all politicians and more importantly for the sheeple they make the "promise" to.


Are you referring to the promise to build a Big Beautiful Wall on our southern border that Mexico will pay for? Or the promise to repeal and replace Obamacare? Trump had a pretty big herd of sheeple.

Reply
Jul 2, 2023 19:57:52   #
DASHY
 
son of witless wrote:
Working Class ? Are you insane ? Ivy League spoiled rich kids who found out their Master's Degree in Socialized Gender Studies isn't worth the paper it's printed on, and they want the taxpayer to bail them out. Your hero Joe should instead go after the rich colleges who keep raising their tuition because the government will loan any amount of money to stupid kids who think a college degree has some value.


I don't think the loans were made available to Ivy League spoiled rich kids.

Reply
Jul 2, 2023 19:58:52   #
Parky60 Loc: People's Republic of Illinois
 
DASHY wrote:
I guess neither of us has seen specific reference in the Bible about how to handle Christian divorce. The answer depends on our individual interpretation.

“The man who hates and divorces his wife,” says the LORD, the God of Israel, “does violence to the one he should protect,” says the LORD Almighty. “So be on your guard, and do not be unfaithful.” Malachi 2:16

When Jesus... left Galilee and went into the region of Judea to the other side of the Jordan large crowds followed him, and he healed them there. Some Pharisees came to him to test him. They asked, “Is it lawful for a man to divorce his wife for any and every reason?”

“Haven’t you read,” he replied, “that at the beginning the Creator ‘made them male and female,’ and said, ‘For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh’? So they are no longer two, but one flesh. Therefore what God has joined together, let no one separate.”

“Why then,” they asked, “did Moses command that a man give his wife a certificate of divorce and send her away?”

Jesus replied, “Moses permitted you to divorce your wives because your hearts were hard. But it was not this way from the beginning. I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality, and marries another woman commits adultery.” Matthew 19:1-9

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Jul 2, 2023 20:01:32   #
DASHY
 
Parky60 wrote:
The Bible reveals that God, who is all-powerful, created two people initially (Genesis 1)—a man and woman (Genesis 1:26–27) called Adam and Eve (e.g., Genesis 2:19, 3:20; 1 Timothy 2:13). Adam was the first man (1 Corinthians 15:45), and Eve was the mother of all the living (Genesis 3:20).

Allow me to state the obvious to make some points: parents produce children. Those children grow up and produce children, and the process continues. Scientifically, we can test this: humans have more humans. Since mankind was commanded to be fruitful and multiply, childbearing and population growth is appropriate (Genesis 1:28).

Adam and Eve had many sons and daughters over the course of many years (Genesis 5:4), so, yes, originally brothers and sisters had to marry. That was admissible originally of necessity (and not a problem for genetic diseases that wouldn’t have existed yet so soon after the degenerate effects from sin and the curse), but God set up most familiar incest laws at the time of Moses (e.g., Leviticus 18), which was about 2,500 years after Adam and Eve. So, from the Christian position, it is no longer appropriate to marry close relatives.

Consider the secular view that seven billion people on the earth came from an almost infinitely dense and hot matter that exploded and came from nothing, yet there is no criticism there? Let’s evaluate this. Do people come from people or do people come from inanimate material? We observe people coming from people, but people don’t come from rocks. One of these views is logical and clearly possible—one isn’t.

In a few thousand years, we expect only seven billion humans. But calculating how many humans there should be in tens of thousands of years doesn’t add up—or rather adds up quite a bit too much! I want to encourage you to trust God’s Word as the supreme authority for a starting point on the origin of people.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
So where did penguins come from? The Bible tells us in Genesis 1:20–22 that God created all sea creatures and birds on Day 5 of the Creation Week.

The Bible says that God created the different “kinds” of animals. The classification of “kind” is not the same as what scientists call “species.” I believe that “kinds” are probably best represented today by the classification “families.”

During his daring trip around the Cape of Good Hope in 1497–98, Vasco da Gama saw a strange-looking sight—birds leaping out of the ocean like porpoises. He and his crew were the first Europeans to report these acrobats of the sea, known as penguins.

After years of exploration, 17 species were discovered, quite similar in structure and coloration and belonging to the same family (Spheniscidae). Penguins are so different from other birds, in fact, that they are the only family in their order, the Sphenisciformes.

Skeptics have often mocked the biblical account of the Ark by highlighting the seeming absurdity of having one man travel the world to find two representatives of every animal species. This paints a picture in the listener’s mind of a person traveling across oceans to islands and continents in order to capture millions of animals. In addition to tracking down all of these animals, Noah would still need to build the Ark.

All of this certainly appears as if it would be too difficult for one person to complete, so how was Noah able to perform these tasks? As is often the case, the skeptic has constructed a straw man argument in an effort to undermine the authenticity of the biblical account. For example, Noah did not need to bring two of every species of animal on board the Ark—he needed to bring two of each kind of unclean land animal and seven or seven pairs of each clean animal. This means he probably needed to bring fewer than 5,000 animals.

Another problem with this skeptical claim is that it assumes that the pre-Flood land masses were virtually the same as our world today. However, there are good biblical reasons to think that prior to the Flood there was only one continent, so even if Noah had to track down all these animals, he would not need to travel overseas to find them. For example, the passage in Genesis 1:9–10 states that all the water was gathered together in one place, which seems to indicate that all the land was in one place. Also, the description of the pre-Flood world in Genesis 2:10–14 does not match any place on earth today.

The biggest problem with this skeptical claim is that Noah didn’t even need to travel the world and catch all the animals. God said in Genesis 6:20 that the animals and birds would come to Noah to be kept alive. Since God brought the animals to Noah, this entire skeptical claim is moot.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
These are yet another example of why it is so important to look at what Scripture actually states about an issue rather than taking the skeptic’s word for it. Many of their objections are based on what they think the Bible states or what they’ve heard from someone else rather than taking the time to carefully read Scripture.
The Bible reveals that God, who is all-powerful, c... (show quote)


You make one fact clear. Parents produce children. The rest is up to interpretation and speculation.

Reply
Jul 2, 2023 20:06:03   #
Parky60 Loc: People's Republic of Illinois
 
DASHY wrote:
You make one fact clear. Parents produce children. The rest is up to interpretation and speculation.

And you claim to be a Christian?! Oh, I forgot... PROFESSING Christian. IOW a CINO... Christian in Name Only.

Reply
Jul 2, 2023 20:08:56   #
JoyV
 
DASHY wrote:
Some good arguments on both sides. A couple of things. Debt relief recipients would not see the $10,000 or $20,000 show up in their checking accounts. Remaining balances will be re-amortized, meaning monthly payments will be recalculated to reflect the new smaller balance (if there is one left). Repayment of student loans has already been suspended since March 2020 as part of helping people cope with Covid. If that balance is $10,000 or less, that poor person will realize no extra cash to spend on Pizza night out.

One Republican argument is that the debt relief is unfair to Americans who never attended college. That argument has some merit. It is similar to the argument I hear from wealthy homeowners in my town who squawk about paying school taxes when they have no kids in school. President Biden is on the right track helping kids to go to college.
Some good arguments on both sides. A couple of th... (show quote)


There are a few points your example misses. 1. One is those who already paid their loans off don't benefit either. Your analogy would be an education tax break for homeowners where their tax they owe is "forgiven" but which does nothing for those homeowners who were prompt in paying their tax.
2. The homeowners who are taxed have not requested schools be funded out of state taxes only from homeowners, while renters or those with other living arrangements pay nothing. But these student loans were not an involuntary tax but a voluntary transaction REQUESTED by the student.
3. If schools know that not only are loans guaranteed by our government and backed by taxpayers (involuntarily), but that even without the student reneging the government will step in to cover a large part of the loan; what incentive will they have to keep the cost of an education no more exorbitant than it already is. Before our government began guaranteeing student loans, people could work their way through college with minimum wage part time jobs. My sister did so and others I knew did. Colleges had to consider what students could afford to pay. Once loans were guaranteed and backed by taxpayers, education costs rose precipitously.

So I disagree with your conclusion.

Reply
Jul 2, 2023 20:10:20   #
DASHY
 
son of witless wrote:
More blatant class warfare to justify the raiding of the US Treasury by the Democratic Party. You are naive, uninformed, ignorant, and unknowing as to how the sausage in DC gets made. You actually think when the Democrats raise taxes on the rich and the evil corporations that taxes on the peons go down. You are so trusting.

When Liberals raise taxes on the rich, at the same time they create ginormous tax loop holes, that their friends and the people who contribute to their political campaigns will take advantage of. But then you do know about those tax loop holes for the well connected, right ?
More blatant class warfare to justify the raiding ... (show quote)


I have prepared income taxes for Corporations and individuals for the last 30 years. I know about tax loopholes. Congress is not interested in changing tax law to eliminate loopholes that favor the wealthy and well connected. These people are also campaign donors. I do think that wealthy individuals and Corporations should pay more income tax.

Reply
Jul 2, 2023 20:21:51   #
JoyV
 
DASHY wrote:
Are you referring to the promise to build a Big Beautiful Wall on our southern border that Mexico will pay for? Or the promise to repeal and replace Obamacare? Trump had a pretty big herd of sheeple.


Despite the roadblocks put in place by our congress, with much time wasted where building had to halt while some aspect or other had to be hashed out in court; he got most of it built WITH cooperation from Mexico (which included Mexico paying for a portion of the mutual task.) But add in both the funds NOT spent on detaining, processing, medical care, child care, child schooling, legal expenses, etc.

He did the responsible thing and broke Obamacare into its various laws and tackled them one at a time. He said something to the effect during his campaign that some of Obamacare was good and probably could be kept. He started with the most egregious law and repealed and replaced it, then moved on to others.

Reply
Jul 2, 2023 20:28:09   #
Justice101
 
DASHY wrote:
Some good arguments on both sides. A couple of things. Debt relief recipients would not see the $10,000 or $20,000 show up in their checking accounts. Remaining balances will be re-amortized, meaning monthly payments will be recalculated to reflect the new smaller balance (if there is one left). Repayment of student loans has already been suspended since March 2020 as part of helping people cope with Covid. If that balance is $10,000 or less, that poor person will realize no extra cash to spend on Pizza night out.

One Republican argument is that the debt relief is unfair to Americans who never attended college. That argument has some merit. It is similar to the argument I hear from wealthy homeowners in my town who squawk about paying school taxes when they have no kids in school. President Biden is on the right track helping kids to go to college.
Some good arguments on both sides. A couple of th... (show quote)


President Biden should stop promising things that only Congress can grant. Maybe he should put some of his own money where his mouth is if he is so concerned about "helping kids go to college". We see that he's rich.

Reply
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