Check out topic: The Constitutional Guillotine:
The truth about conservatism
Aug 9, 2013 21:42:15 #
LurkingTom wrote:
The republican party will go the way of the Whig party. With the poor choice of McCain in 2008 and Romney in 2012, not going after bho with attacks on his character and policies during both campaigns. I see the Tea party growing into another political entity, possibly by the 2020 election, if there is one by then.
You give the Tea Party too much credit. It does not have widespread popular support. If it did Obama would not still be in the White House.
Aug 9, 2013 21:42:54 #
rumitoid wrote:
Commune-ism was invented by the Catholic Church and many of its principles were the groundwork for present day Communism.
Documentation?
Aug 9, 2013 21:47:17 #
justkillingtime wrote:
Check the "red letter" quotations of Jesus and see if you don't see socialism there.Documentation?
Check out topic: SRM or Cloud Manipulation will destroy 30% of the population.
Aug 9, 2013 21:49:05 #
Terbreugghen wrote:
sorry, drunkblogging.
I never claimed to "understand communist theory," period. Are you suggesting that my view of communist theory is wrong, that communism is seen NOT as an evolutionary artifact of social development that includes capitalism as a developmental stage?
I never claimed to "understand communist theory," period. Are you suggesting that my view of communist theory is wrong, that communism is seen NOT as an evolutionary artifact of social development that includes capitalism as a developmental stage?
Capitalism is the starting point on the road that leads to communism, not a waystation. Marx assumed that communism could never gain headway except in industrialized, and thus capitalistic, countries. Places like the Soviet Union and The Peoples Republic of China are more properly classified as socialist countries because the government controls everything. But Marx predicted that once communism was achieved there would be no government because everybody would cooperate to maintain a communist society where government would not be necessary. Communists and conservatives, i.e., libertarians are the same in their view that government was not needed.
Aug 9, 2013 21:50:23 #
Terbreugghen wrote:
sorry, drunkblogging.
Is that better than blood pressure meds? Probably more enjoyable anyway.
Aug 9, 2013 21:50:34 #
justkillingtime wrote:
Capitalism is the starting point on the road that ... (show quote)
I'm seeing sympathy to this point of view. Am I wrong?
Aug 9, 2013 21:55:33 #
justkillingtime wrote:
You give the Tea Party too much credit. It does not have widespread popular support. If it did Obama would not still be in the White House.
Not in it's present state... give it a few years to grow and mature. there are far more tea party people then the media and democrat/liberal/progressive/socialist/fascist/communists think there are.
Aug 9, 2013 21:58:55 #
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.--That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed [/quote]
Seems pretty basic to me. How would you change that
Jeffery
Seems pretty basic to me. How would you change that
Jeffery
Aug 9, 2013 22:04:41 #
Terbreugghen wrote:
So you're suggesting that Marx, Engles, and Lenin were using the Catholic church as the primary example of social organization?
No, as I said, the commune life (of monasticism) had certain principles and practices that were grafted into Communism. Not the Catholic Church. The Early Church would be called communistic today. By "Early Church" I am speaking very specifically of that period before acceptance by Rome, or what is considered the establishment of the Catholic Church.
Aug 9, 2013 22:17:07 #
rumitoid wrote:
No, as I said, the commune life (of monasticism) had certain principles and practices that were grafted into Communism. Not the Catholic Church. The Early Church would be called communistic today. By "Early Church" I am speaking very specifically of that period before acceptance by Rome, or what is considered the establishment of the Catholic Church.
Agreed. But how does that help us now. (drunkblogging, mea culpa)
Aug 9, 2013 22:37:50 #
justkillingtime wrote:
Capitalism is the starting point on the road that leads to communism,. . . . Communists and conservatives, i.e., libertarians are the same in their view that government was not needed.
I like your novel way of equating the two, but it seems a vast stretch. And if I understand BUrke and the Founders, they recognize the necessity of "instituting governments among men."
Jeffery
Aug 9, 2013 22:56:29 #
Terbreugghen wrote:
Check the "red letter" quotations of Jesus and see if you don't see socialism there.
Except Jesus is not a Roman Catholic. Furthermore, socialism is based on having the government own the means of production and distribution of goods and services. Jesus said sell what you have and follow Him, not turn what you own over to the government.
Aug 9, 2013 22:59:09 #
Terbreugghen wrote:
I'm seeing sympathy to this point of view. Am I wrong?
???
I am merely explaining Marxist theory which I know more about than most people due to my study of history. However, I do not believe capitalism is as great as conservatives claim it is. It does have problems that if not confronted can encourage people to turn to socialism/communism.
Aug 9, 2013 23:00:14 #
LurkingTom wrote:
Not in it's present state... give it a few years to grow and mature. there are far more tea party people then the media and democrat/liberal/progressive/socialist/fascist/communists think there are.
A few more years without results and the Tea Party will disintegrate because its current supporters will grow impatient and start looking elsewhere.
Aug 9, 2013 23:03:17 #
Terbreugghen wrote:
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.--That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed
Seems pretty basic to me. How would you change that
Jeffery[/quote]
More often than not our government is beholden to people with wealth, i.e., power. So instead of being a disinterested arbiter government is an active co-conspirator in wealths efforts to oppress the poor. Government must better regulate wealth or the poor will be driven to revolution.
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