Ukrainian - Russian war will never end unless
Apr 28, 2022 09:47:41 #
dtucker300
Loc: Vista, CA
nwtk2007 wrote:
Funny also is how they are so incredulous about it, as if he didn't warn them and as if they aren't supporting Ukraine. I'm like, duh! And calling it blackmail is just stupid.
Funny how you are incredulous. I could as easily call you a Putin lover but I don't because I know that it probably isn't true. Stick to the topic and don't try to bring in extraneous issues that don't exist or that you dream up to conflate the subject.
Apr 28, 2022 09:59:40 #
dtucker300
Loc: Vista, CA
nwtk2007 wrote:
Not to butt in, but where did Putin EVER say he was going to rebuild the USSR/Russian empire? Even his comment that the break up of the USSR was a disaster was referring to all the Russian people cut off from their mother country and in many cases families, and are now subject to rule from gov 's not friendly to Russians, like Ukrainian governments.
http://en.kremlin.ru/events/president/news/66181
It's called inductive reasoning, something very few people here on OPP do. Putin doesn't come right out and say this. That would be crazy. Oh wait, Putin says he may resort to using a nuclear arm if NATO interferes. That too is crazy and blackmail. Years from now the world will look back and say, "Why didn't anyone do something to stop him when they had the opportunity to do so." It won't be Biden. That's for sure. Putin suffers from the same paranoia that most Russians suffer from; The West. The paranoia is not without justification when you review the historical record.
The bottom line is that Ukrainians are fighting for the independence of their country.
Apr 28, 2022 10:31:57 #
nwtk2007
Loc: Texas
dtucker300 wrote:
I never watch CNN, MSNBC, or FOX. If you have been paying any attention at all you would know this as I have stated many many times that I don't even subscribe to Cable TV.
What topic have I selectively said the MSM is correct about? I don't know what the MSM even says.
What topic have I selectively said the MSM is correct about? I don't know what the MSM even says.
Your claim that Putin wants to rebuild the USSR/Russian empire and all that implies. It's all over the western media, no matter if it's radio, TV or internet sources, which everyone denies watching or listening to.
Apr 28, 2022 11:05:20 #
nwtk2007
Loc: Texas
dtucker300 wrote:
They are fighting for their freedom now, but since 2014, they have been fighting against the ethnic Russians in the donbas who have been fighting for THEIR freedom. Same with Crimea. They have been trying to get out from under the Ukraine yoke in Kiev since 1991, before the break up of the USSR.
It was not Putin wanting to break free of Ukraine, it was the Russian people who were trapped by the formation of borders after the USSR broke up. Do you deny that??
Apr 28, 2022 11:09:15 #
nwtk2007 wrote:
True. I was referring to their belief that he is trying to rebuild the USSR/Russian empire.
It's equally bizarre...
Apr 28, 2022 11:10:06 #
nwtk2007 wrote:
Not to butt in, but where did Putin EVER say he was going to rebuild the USSR/Russian empire? Even his comment that the break up of the USSR was a disaster was referring to all the Russian people cut off from their mother country and in many cases families, and are now subject to rule from gov 's not friendly to Russians, like Ukrainian governments.
If she were actually following the thread, she would have seen where I provided sources to back up my statements..
Apr 28, 2022 11:10:21 #
dtucker300 wrote:
It's also something I haven't heard. Where did you come up with this notion?
You
Apr 28, 2022 11:11:29 #
dtucker300 wrote:
Funny how you are incredulous. I could as easily call you a Putin lover but I don't because I know that it probably isn't true. Stick to the topic and don't try to bring in extraneous issues that don't exist or that you dream up to conflate the subject.
You've called me this...
How is it true for me and not for another that a makes the same points??
Apr 28, 2022 11:12:54 #
dtucker300 wrote:
The Ukrainians had an independent country...
Then there was a coup..
Goodbye independence...
If America were threatened, it wouldn't use its nuclear arsenal???? You're joking, right???
Apr 28, 2022 11:50:06 #
TexaCan
Loc: Homeward Bound!
nwtk2007 wrote:
Not to butt in, but where did Putin EVER say he was going to rebuild the USSR/Russian empire? Even his comment that the break up of the USSR was a disaster was referring to all the Russian people cut off from their mother country and in many cases families, and are now subject to rule from gov 's not friendly to Russians, like Ukrainian governments.
First of all, I don’t think someone is butting in when they respond to any comment! I consider any discussion open to all.
I didn’t comment on any specific statement. In order for me to answer your question I would have to research it. I have been very careful making any definitive statement on this invasion of Ukraine. I see and read every day both sides from members that I respect and some that I don’t. Both sides are convinced that their facts are factual and that their opinion of this invasion being necessary to protect Russia or was is to gain more territory for Russia! Tell me how either side can be sure of the validity of the many stories at this point? Both sides have been caught lying! I’ve read some excellent discussions from both sides. I admit that I knew very little about Ukraine when this all began, I know a bit more now! 👍
This is my opinion. The killing of the innocent Ukrainians is not necessary! The dispute between Putin and Zelinski needs to be negotiated and settled before this escalates to the point of no return. I am adamantly against sending our troops in! I know that you, CD, and dtucker are very sincere in your opinion of this matter and I will continue to follow these discussions!
Apr 28, 2022 12:08:38 #
nwtk2007
Loc: Texas
TexaCan wrote:
First of all, I don’t think someone is butting in ... (show quote)
I agree. My point has always been that Putin tried to negotiate but was flatly dissed, disrespected, and refused an audience. Thus we have a Russian invasion. I put it on the west and their anti-Putin attitude and refusal to negotiate.
Apr 28, 2022 12:47:16 #
TexaCan
Loc: Homeward Bound!
Canuckus Deploracus wrote:
If she were actually following the thread, she would have seen where I provided sources to back up my statements..
Like you always do!☺️ Where is your source for this one?
“No... He's had a good relationship with numerous German leaders...He speaks fluent German and admires much of their culture..”
And then there is the thread of Parky’s about Iran………statements with no source to back them up, even though I asked and you ignored!
I will stand on my statement as stated! LOL!
Apr 28, 2022 12:48:43 #
TexaCan
Loc: Homeward Bound!
nwtk2007 wrote:
I agree. My point has always been that Putin tried to negotiate but was flatly dissed, disrespected, and refused an audience. Thus we have a Russian invasion. I put it on the west and their anti-Putin attitude and refusal to negotiate.
I respect your opinion…….as I always do!
Apr 28, 2022 15:02:36 #
dtucker300
Loc: Vista, CA
Canuckus Deploracus wrote:
You've called me this...
How is it true for me and not for another that a makes the same points??
How is it true for me and not for another that a makes the same points??
Sorry, I thought I was responding to nwtk. Don't get your panties all in a wad.
Apr 28, 2022 15:19:49 #
nwtk2007
Loc: Texas
dtucker300 wrote:
"Things change: countries and communities are no exception. Of course, some part of a people in the process of its development, influenced by a number of reasons and historical circumstances, can become aware of itself as a separate nation at a certain moment. How should we treat that? There is only one answer: with respect!"
"Step by step, Ukraine was dragged into a dangerous geopolitical game aimed at turning Ukraine into a barrier between Europe and Russia, a springboard against Russia. Inevitably, there came a time when the concept of ”Ukraine is not Russia“ was no longer an option. There was a need for the ”anti-Russia“ concept which we will never accept."
This is ll you need to know to understand what Putin's thinking is. He was getting no respect and he was being cornered.
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