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Stop blaming Biden for Afghanistan. He's cleaning up Trump's mess
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Aug 24, 2021 20:14:25   #
Voiceodppl
 
If Trump f”d it up how come we’re hearing about it now. Libyards jumped on every move he made. Joek Biden opened his mouth and they heard what he said and said” coast is clear” just like the Mexican border

Reply
Aug 24, 2021 20:24:47   #
zombietracker Loc: Fema region 6
 
moldyoldy wrote:
The images coming out of Afghanistan have been disturbing. But let's be clear: The Trump Administration led us straight into this mess. And President Biden is doing everything he can to get us out of it.

In Afghanistan, President Biden got dealt yet another losing hand from the Trump Administration. Their Doha Agreement with the Taliban violated the most basic principles of self-government for the Afghan people. There was no way to enforce it or make sure the Taliban kept its word. There was no denunciation of al-Qaeda terrorists. Worst of all, the deal didn't mandate the Taliban stop attacks against Afghan security forces.

All of this set the stage for the chaotic scenes we're seeing on TV today.

Trump's deal with the Taliban was flawed from the start, which is why Trump's own officials are now scrambling to distance themselves from it. "To have our Generals say that they are depending on diplomacy with the Taliban is an unbelievable scenario. Negotiating with the Taliban is like dealing with the devil," tweeted Trump's ambassador to the United Nations, Nikki Haley, who certainly voiced no such objections while working for Trump. She was not alone. "Our secretary of state signed a surrender agreement with the Taliban," Trump's former national security adviser, H.R. McMaster, told journalist Bari Weiss. "This collapse goes back to the capitulation agreement of 2020. The Taliban didn't defeat us. We defeated ourselves."

To have our Generals say that they are depending on diplomacy with the Taliban is an unbelievable scenario. Negotiating with the Taliban is like dealing with the devil.

Even Mike Pompeo, Trump's Secretary of State and the man who negotiated the deal with the Taliban in the first place, is now denouncing it. He had the audacity to tell Fox News that the "debacle" in Afghanistan "will certainly harm America's credibility with its friends and allies." He certainly didn't seem to think so while he was laying the groundwork for the debacle in the first place.

"We're letting the Taliban run free and wild all around Afghanistan," complained Pompeo, the man who cut the deal to release the Taliban's leader from prison in the first place. Trump ordered the release of 5,000 of the top captured Taliban fighters last year—a decision his own designated "peace envoy" Zalmay Khaliizad said publicly had disturbed him. Those same fighters are now threatening the streets of Kabul.

Republican outrage was also completely absent in the first 45 days of Donald Trump's agreement, when there were over 4,500 Taliban attacks resulting in over 900 Afghan casualties. Where was the Republican outrage about the Afghan army then, when their President handed over Afghanistan to the Taliban? Nonexistent.

They saved their denunciations for Biden's efforts to clean up Trump's mess—efforts which have as yet cost many fewer lives.

But this hypocrisy is not limited to former Trump officials. Take House Republican firebrand Rep. Jim Jordan (R-OH), for example, who only tweeted once in 2014 about losing an American general in combat in Afghanistan, until discovering it as a partisan issue this summer. Now that he can blame Biden for Trump's mess, he hasn't stopped tweeting about it.

Jordan is one of many Republicans hypocritically denouncing a Biden withdrawal that they championed under Trump. The Republican Party used to brag about Trump's "historic" peace deal in Afghanistan. Now, they went so far as to delete that press release to pave the way for a new, partisan attack on President Biden over the end results of that very agreement.

We shouldn’t be surprised about Joe Biden’s Afghanistan failures.

Have you seen the southern border?

— Rep. Jim Jordan (@Jim_Jordan) August 17, 2021
Twitter is awash in angry Republicans outraged about our allies in Afghanistan who we should have evacuated before we left. And yet, it is Trump—and his advisor Stephen Miller—who are the reason so many Afghan interpreters are stuck in Afghanistan due to stalled special immigrant visa application infrastructure. Former Vice President Mike Pence advisor Olivia Troye wrote on Twitter that folks like Trump and Miller made it "even more challenging" to get allies out, overriding the concerns of others in the administration. "There were cabinet mtgs about this during the Trump Admin where Stephen Miller would peddle his racist hysteria about Iraq & Afghanistan," Troye wrote. "He & his enablers across gov't would undermine anyone who worked on solving the SIV issue by devastating the system at DHS & State."

🧵There were cabinet mtgs about this during the Trump Admin where Stephen Miller would peddle his racist hysteria about Iraq & Afghanistan. He & his enablers across gov’t would undermine anyone who worked on solving the SIV issue by devastating the system at DHS & State.(1/7) pic.twitter.com/vtNWaasCK7

— Olivia of Troye (@OliviaTroye) August 20, 2021
In fact, at the end of last year, the Trump administration had nearly 11,000 visas authorized for Afghans who helped America during the last 20 years—but only gave out 1,300 while most of the withdrawal took place.

So whose fault is it that so many of those who helped us are stuck in Afghanistan? The burden of that responsibility falls squarely on Trump's shoulders. And it is Biden who is working diligently to get them out.

And it was Trump who bragged just this April that the process of moving the U.S. military out of Afghanistan had progressed to a point that even if President Biden wanted to, he "couldn't stop the process." Trump was right: There was nothing Biden could do to stop what was coming in Afghanistan short of another massive U.S. military deployment. According to the text of the February 29, 2020 agreement Trump signed with the Taliban, within 135 days, America would withdraw from five major bases and agreed to complete the rest of its major withdrawals within nine months. In other words, the Army agreed to pull out of Afghanistan long before Biden's inauguration, which it mostly accomplished.

So to those blaming President Biden for how the Afghanistan war is ending, let's be real: Trump led us into this mess. And he could not get us out of it.

Joe Biden is doing something Trump and two other presidents over two decades never could or would do: President Biden is ending the war in Afghanistan.

For that, he deserves our respect.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/stop-blaming-biden-for-afghanistan-he-s-cleaning-up-trump-s-mess-opinion/ar-AANDxv2?ocid=msedgdhp&pc=U531
The images coming out of Afghanistan have been dis... (show quote)

Reply
Aug 24, 2021 20:25:31   #
Maxim
 
Agreed Liberty Tree. I read the first 2 lines of moldy. Moldy's posts are a waste of time. No response earned. That's 20 seconds of my life I will never get back. Hang in there LT

Reply
 
 
Aug 24, 2021 20:55:36   #
4430 Loc: Little Egypt ** Southern Illinory
 
NotBrainwashed wrote:
Hey Moldy

After your long winded diatribe there is only one simple response: Biden OWNS this cuz he's (supposedly) in charge.

He made a big deal out of cancelling Trump's policies on Day One so NOW he doesn't get to pick and choose which ones he gets to blame on the guy who runs rings around his feeble minded GREATLY diminished brain.

Instead of blaming Trump you should be praying that YOUR GUY is able to get Americans trapped there out safely even though there is absolutely no previous evidence that he is able to do anything of the sort.

Good luck with generating another long winded response that no one will take the time to read.

Put your big boy panties on and deal with it.
Hey Moldy br br After your long winded diatribe t... (show quote)



Reply
Aug 24, 2021 21:19:07   #
JoyV
 
moldyoldy wrote:
The images coming out of Afghanistan have been disturbing. But let's be clear: The Trump Administration led us straight into this mess. And President Biden is doing everything he can to get us out of it.

In Afghanistan, President Biden got dealt yet another losing hand from the Trump Administration. Their Doha Agreement with the Taliban violated the most basic principles of self-government for the Afghan people. There was no way to enforce it or make sure the Taliban kept its word. There was no denunciation of al-Qaeda terrorists. Worst of all, the deal didn't mandate the Taliban stop attacks against Afghan security forces.

All of this set the stage for the chaotic scenes we're seeing on TV today.

Trump's deal with the Taliban was flawed from the start, which is why Trump's own officials are now scrambling to distance themselves from it. "To have our Generals say that they are depending on diplomacy with the Taliban is an unbelievable scenario. Negotiating with the Taliban is like dealing with the devil," tweeted Trump's ambassador to the United Nations, Nikki Haley, who certainly voiced no such objections while working for Trump. She was not alone. "Our secretary of state signed a surrender agreement with the Taliban," Trump's former national security adviser, H.R. McMaster, told journalist Bari Weiss. "This collapse goes back to the capitulation agreement of 2020. The Taliban didn't defeat us. We defeated ourselves."

To have our Generals say that they are depending on diplomacy with the Taliban is an unbelievable scenario. Negotiating with the Taliban is like dealing with the devil.

Even Mike Pompeo, Trump's Secretary of State and the man who negotiated the deal with the Taliban in the first place, is now denouncing it. He had the audacity to tell Fox News that the "debacle" in Afghanistan "will certainly harm America's credibility with its friends and allies." He certainly didn't seem to think so while he was laying the groundwork for the debacle in the first place.

"We're letting the Taliban run free and wild all around Afghanistan," complained Pompeo, the man who cut the deal to release the Taliban's leader from prison in the first place. Trump ordered the release of 5,000 of the top captured Taliban fighters last year—a decision his own designated "peace envoy" Zalmay Khaliizad said publicly had disturbed him. Those same fighters are now threatening the streets of Kabul.

Republican outrage was also completely absent in the first 45 days of Donald Trump's agreement, when there were over 4,500 Taliban attacks resulting in over 900 Afghan casualties. Where was the Republican outrage about the Afghan army then, when their President handed over Afghanistan to the Taliban? Nonexistent.

They saved their denunciations for Biden's efforts to clean up Trump's mess—efforts which have as yet cost many fewer lives.

But this hypocrisy is not limited to former Trump officials. Take House Republican firebrand Rep. Jim Jordan (R-OH), for example, who only tweeted once in 2014 about losing an American general in combat in Afghanistan, until discovering it as a partisan issue this summer. Now that he can blame Biden for Trump's mess, he hasn't stopped tweeting about it.

Jordan is one of many Republicans hypocritically denouncing a Biden withdrawal that they championed under Trump. The Republican Party used to brag about Trump's "historic" peace deal in Afghanistan. Now, they went so far as to delete that press release to pave the way for a new, partisan attack on President Biden over the end results of that very agreement.

We shouldn’t be surprised about Joe Biden’s Afghanistan failures.

Have you seen the southern border?

— Rep. Jim Jordan (@Jim_Jordan) August 17, 2021
Twitter is awash in angry Republicans outraged about our allies in Afghanistan who we should have evacuated before we left. And yet, it is Trump—and his advisor Stephen Miller—who are the reason so many Afghan interpreters are stuck in Afghanistan due to stalled special immigrant visa application infrastructure. Former Vice President Mike Pence advisor Olivia Troye wrote on Twitter that folks like Trump and Miller made it "even more challenging" to get allies out, overriding the concerns of others in the administration. "There were cabinet mtgs about this during the Trump Admin where Stephen Miller would peddle his racist hysteria about Iraq & Afghanistan," Troye wrote. "He & his enablers across gov't would undermine anyone who worked on solving the SIV issue by devastating the system at DHS & State."

🧵There were cabinet mtgs about this during the Trump Admin where Stephen Miller would peddle his racist hysteria about Iraq & Afghanistan. He & his enablers across gov’t would undermine anyone who worked on solving the SIV issue by devastating the system at DHS & State.(1/7) pic.twitter.com/vtNWaasCK7

— Olivia of Troye (@OliviaTroye) August 20, 2021
In fact, at the end of last year, the Trump administration had nearly 11,000 visas authorized for Afghans who helped America during the last 20 years—but only gave out 1,300 while most of the withdrawal took place.

So whose fault is it that so many of those who helped us are stuck in Afghanistan? The burden of that responsibility falls squarely on Trump's shoulders. And it is Biden who is working diligently to get them out.

And it was Trump who bragged just this April that the process of moving the U.S. military out of Afghanistan had progressed to a point that even if President Biden wanted to, he "couldn't stop the process." Trump was right: There was nothing Biden could do to stop what was coming in Afghanistan short of another massive U.S. military deployment. According to the text of the February 29, 2020 agreement Trump signed with the Taliban, within 135 days, America would withdraw from five major bases and agreed to complete the rest of its major withdrawals within nine months. In other words, the Army agreed to pull out of Afghanistan long before Biden's inauguration, which it mostly accomplished.

So to those blaming President Biden for how the Afghanistan war is ending, let's be real: Trump led us into this mess. And he could not get us out of it.

Joe Biden is doing something Trump and two other presidents over two decades never could or would do: President Biden is ending the war in Afghanistan.

For that, he deserves our respect.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/stop-blaming-biden-for-afghanistan-he-s-cleaning-up-trump-s-mess-opinion/ar-AANDxv2?ocid=msedgdhp&pc=U531
The images coming out of Afghanistan have been dis... (show quote)


Biden cleaning up Trump's mess? That would be like saying you left a dirty cup in the sink so your room-mate cleans up your mess by scooping out your cupboards onto the floor, dumping garbage on the heap of broken dishes and spilled food, and finishing up by shitting on top of it all. Some clean up!

There were 18 months of not a single American death under Trump, despite that he incrementally and under a thought out plan reduced our troop presence from 8500 to 2500. When the Taliban made any attack he didn't beg them to not hurt us but rather sent in airstrikes which pinpoint targeted the trouble makers. He didn't surrender to Taliban demands. He didn't leave Americans, including civilians in enemy hands. He didn't abandon our weapons and supplies. He didn't turn terrorists loose.

Reply
Aug 24, 2021 21:30:55   #
JoyV
 
moldyoldy wrote:
The images coming out of Afghanistan have been disturbing. But let's be clear: The Trump Administration led us straight into this mess. And President Biden is doing everything he can to get us out of it.

In Afghanistan, President Biden got dealt yet another losing hand from the Trump Administration. Their Doha Agreement with the Taliban violated the most basic principles of self-government for the Afghan people. There was no way to enforce it or make sure the Taliban kept its word. There was no denunciation of al-Qaeda terrorists. Worst of all, the deal didn't mandate the Taliban stop attacks against Afghan security forces.

All of this set the stage for the chaotic scenes we're seeing on TV today.

Trump's deal with the Taliban was flawed from the start, which is why Trump's own officials are now scrambling to distance themselves from it. "To have our Generals say that they are depending on diplomacy with the Taliban is an unbelievable scenario. Negotiating with the Taliban is like dealing with the devil," tweeted Trump's ambassador to the United Nations, Nikki Haley, who certainly voiced no such objections while working for Trump. She was not alone. "Our secretary of state signed a surrender agreement with the Taliban," Trump's former national security adviser, H.R. McMaster, told journalist Bari Weiss. "This collapse goes back to the capitulation agreement of 2020. The Taliban didn't defeat us. We defeated ourselves."

To have our Generals say that they are depending on diplomacy with the Taliban is an unbelievable scenario. Negotiating with the Taliban is like dealing with the devil.

Even Mike Pompeo, Trump's Secretary of State and the man who negotiated the deal with the Taliban in the first place, is now denouncing it. He had the audacity to tell Fox News that the "debacle" in Afghanistan "will certainly harm America's credibility with its friends and allies." He certainly didn't seem to think so while he was laying the groundwork for the debacle in the first place.

"We're letting the Taliban run free and wild all around Afghanistan," complained Pompeo, the man who cut the deal to release the Taliban's leader from prison in the first place. Trump ordered the release of 5,000 of the top captured Taliban fighters last year—a decision his own designated "peace envoy" Zalmay Khaliizad said publicly had disturbed him. Those same fighters are now threatening the streets of Kabul.

Republican outrage was also completely absent in the first 45 days of Donald Trump's agreement, when there were over 4,500 Taliban attacks resulting in over 900 Afghan casualties. Where was the Republican outrage about the Afghan army then, when their President handed over Afghanistan to the Taliban? Nonexistent.

They saved their denunciations for Biden's efforts to clean up Trump's mess—efforts which have as yet cost many fewer lives.

But this hypocrisy is not limited to former Trump officials. Take House Republican firebrand Rep. Jim Jordan (R-OH), for example, who only tweeted once in 2014 about losing an American general in combat in Afghanistan, until discovering it as a partisan issue this summer. Now that he can blame Biden for Trump's mess, he hasn't stopped tweeting about it.

Jordan is one of many Republicans hypocritically denouncing a Biden withdrawal that they championed under Trump. The Republican Party used to brag about Trump's "historic" peace deal in Afghanistan. Now, they went so far as to delete that press release to pave the way for a new, partisan attack on President Biden over the end results of that very agreement.

We shouldn’t be surprised about Joe Biden’s Afghanistan failures.

Have you seen the southern border?

— Rep. Jim Jordan (@Jim_Jordan) August 17, 2021
Twitter is awash in angry Republicans outraged about our allies in Afghanistan who we should have evacuated before we left. And yet, it is Trump—and his advisor Stephen Miller—who are the reason so many Afghan interpreters are stuck in Afghanistan due to stalled special immigrant visa application infrastructure. Former Vice President Mike Pence advisor Olivia Troye wrote on Twitter that folks like Trump and Miller made it "even more challenging" to get allies out, overriding the concerns of others in the administration. "There were cabinet mtgs about this during the Trump Admin where Stephen Miller would peddle his racist hysteria about Iraq & Afghanistan," Troye wrote. "He & his enablers across gov't would undermine anyone who worked on solving the SIV issue by devastating the system at DHS & State."

🧵There were cabinet mtgs about this during the Trump Admin where Stephen Miller would peddle his racist hysteria about Iraq & Afghanistan. He & his enablers across gov’t would undermine anyone who worked on solving the SIV issue by devastating the system at DHS & State.(1/7) pic.twitter.com/vtNWaasCK7

— Olivia of Troye (@OliviaTroye) August 20, 2021
In fact, at the end of last year, the Trump administration had nearly 11,000 visas authorized for Afghans who helped America during the last 20 years—but only gave out 1,300 while most of the withdrawal took place.

So whose fault is it that so many of those who helped us are stuck in Afghanistan? The burden of that responsibility falls squarely on Trump's shoulders. And it is Biden who is working diligently to get them out.

And it was Trump who bragged just this April that the process of moving the U.S. military out of Afghanistan had progressed to a point that even if President Biden wanted to, he "couldn't stop the process." Trump was right: There was nothing Biden could do to stop what was coming in Afghanistan short of another massive U.S. military deployment. According to the text of the February 29, 2020 agreement Trump signed with the Taliban, within 135 days, America would withdraw from five major bases and agreed to complete the rest of its major withdrawals within nine months. In other words, the Army agreed to pull out of Afghanistan long before Biden's inauguration, which it mostly accomplished.

So to those blaming President Biden for how the Afghanistan war is ending, let's be real: Trump led us into this mess. And he could not get us out of it.

Joe Biden is doing something Trump and two other presidents over two decades never could or would do: President Biden is ending the war in Afghanistan.

For that, he deserves our respect.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/stop-blaming-biden-for-afghanistan-he-s-cleaning-up-trump-s-mess-opinion/ar-AANDxv2?ocid=msedgdhp&pc=U531
The images coming out of Afghanistan have been dis... (show quote)


The deal was broken by the Taliban almost immediately after it was made. So the deal was taken off the table.

Biden isn't ending the war with the Taliban. He is abetting them to raise the war to a whole new level, and putting our allies in harms way to boot. We will soon find the global dynamics to have changed to a completely unrecognizable ways. Instead of an unwinnable war in Afghanistan, we may see our allies turn against us, NATO fall, the Abraham accords demolished, a terrorism surge from terrorist groups and nations throughout the middle east which can cause western countries to have to deal with the same ongoing constant attacks that only Israel has so far been facing. Even the possibility of war with China, Russia, Iran, and others as a new axis of evil rises.

Reply
Aug 24, 2021 21:31:42   #
moldyoldy
 
Maxim wrote:
Agreed Liberty Tree. I read the first 2 lines of moldy. Moldy's posts are a waste of time. No response earned. That's 20 seconds of my life I will never get back. Hang in there LT


Revel in your choice to be ignorant of facts.

Reply
 
 
Aug 24, 2021 21:38:02   #
moldyoldy
 
NotBrainwashed wrote:
Hey Moldy

After your long winded diatribe there is only one simple response: Biden OWNS this cuz he's (supposedly) in charge.

He made a big deal out of cancelling Trump's policies on Day One so NOW he doesn't get to pick and choose which ones he gets to blame on the guy who runs rings around his feeble minded GREATLY diminished brain.

Instead of blaming Trump you should be praying that YOUR GUY is able to get Americans trapped there out safely even though there is absolutely no previous evidence that he is able to do anything of the sort.

Good luck with generating another long winded response that no one will take the time to read.

Put your big boy panties on and deal with it.
Hey Moldy br br After your long winded diatribe t... (show quote)







Reply
Aug 24, 2021 21:42:09   #
JoyV
 
moldyoldy wrote:
Why didn’t trump allow the Afghans to be part of the negotiations? He sold them out when he demanded the release of 5000 terrorists.


Just like the Abraham accords, he negotiated with both sides at the same time to keep the channels of communications open. The Taliban wouldn't sit down with the Afghan government. Once the deals with both the Taliban and Afghan government was made, the Taliban quickly broke it by attacking the Afghanis. Trump withdrew from the deal and called down airstrikes on the Taliban.

As for the release of 5,000 terrorists, this happened this month. As for the release from Gitmo of the Taliban leader, that happened in 2014. So you are saying Trump had control both years before he was elected and 8 months after Biden was sworn in?

Reply
Aug 24, 2021 21:45:33   #
moldyoldy
 
JoyV wrote:
The deal was broken by the Taliban almost immediately after it was made. So the deal was taken off the table.

Biden isn't ending the war with the Taliban. He is abetting them to raise the war to a whole new level, and putting our allies in harms way to boot. We will soon find the global dynamics to have changed to a completely unrecognizable ways. Instead of an unwinnable war in Afghanistan, we may see our allies turn against us, NATO fall, the Abraham accords demolished, a terrorism surge from terrorist groups and nations throughout the middle east which can cause western countries to have to deal with the same ongoing constant attacks that only Israel has so far been facing. Even the possibility of war with China, Russia, Iran, and others as a new axis of evil rises.
The deal was broken by the Taliban almost immediat... (show quote)


Afghanistan is not a real country but rather a bunch of tribes. They will go back to growing poppies and selling drugs. They are not ready for a real government.

Reply
Aug 24, 2021 21:57:34   #
JoyV
 
moldyoldy wrote:
The United States never understood Afghanistan. American planners thought they knew what the country needed, which was not quite the same as what its people wanted. American policy was guided by fantasies; chief among them was the idea that the Taliban could be eliminated and that an entire culture could be transformed in the process.


In an ideal world, the Taliban wouldn’t exist. But it does exist, and it will exist. Western observers always struggle to understand how groups as ruthless as the Taliban gain legitimacy and popular support. Surely Afghans remember the terror of Taliban rule in the 1990s, when women were whipped if they ventured outside without a burka and adulterers were stoned to death in soccer stadiums. How could those dark days be forgotten?

America saw the Taliban as plainly evil. To deem a group evil is to cast it outside of time and history. But this is a privileged view. Living in a democracy with basic security allows citizens to set their sights higher. They will be disappointed with even a relatively good government precisely because they expect more from it. In failed states and in the midst of civil war, however, the fundamental questions are ones of order and disorder, and how to have more of the former and less of the latter.

The Taliban knew this. After its fall from power in 2001, the group was weak, reeling from devastating air strikes targeting its leaders. But in recent years, it has been gaining ground and establishing deeper roots in local communities. The Taliban was brutal. At the same time, it often provided better governance than the distant and corrupt Afghan central government. Doing a little went a long way.

Afghanistan’s U.S.-backed government didn’t fail just because of the Taliban. It was hobbled from the start by America’s blind spots and biases. The United States saw a strong, centralized authority as the answer to Afghanistan’s problems and backed a constitution that invested the president with sweeping powers. That, along with a quirky and confusing electoral system, undermined the development of political parties and the Parliament. A strong state required formal legal institutions—and the United States dutifully supported courts, judges, and other such trappings. Meanwhile, it invited resentment by pushing programs that were meant to reengineer Afghan culture and gender norms.

All of these choices reflected the hubris of Western powers that saw Afghan traditions as an obstacle to be overcome when, it turns out, they were the lifeblood of the country’s political culture. In the end, few Afghans believed in a government that they never felt was theirs or wished to wade through its bureaucratic red tape. They kept turning to informal and community-driven dispute resolution, and local figures they trusted. And this left the door open for the slow return of the Taliban.

The Special Inspector General for Afghanistan Reconstruction oversaw how the U.S. disbursed reconstruction funds and assessed their effectiveness. Over the past year, two depressing SIGAR assessments were made available to the public.

One—grandiosely if obsoletely titled “What We Need to Learn: Lessons From Twenty Years of Afghanistan Reconstruction”—notes that the United States spent about $900 million helping Afghans develop a formal legal system. Unfortunately, Afghans do not seem to have been impressed.

One of the first things militant groups like the Taliban do when they enter new territory is provide “rough and ready” dispute resolution. Often, they outperform the local court system. As Vanda Felbab-Brown, Harold Trinkunas, and I noted in our 2017 book on rebel governance, “Afghans report a great degree of satisfaction with Taliban verdicts, unlike those from the official justice system, where petitioners for justice frequently have to pay considerable bribes.”

This is one major reason why religion—particularly Islam—matters. It provides an organizing framework for rough justice and a justification for its implementation, and is more likely to be perceived as legitimate by local communities. Secular groups and governments simply have a harder time providing this kind of justice. The Afghan government wasn’t necessarily secular, but it had received tens of billions of dollars from governments that certainly were. A Sharia-based, informal dispute system would almost certainly be frowned upon by those Western donors. How likely was it that an Afghan government headed by an Ivy League–educated technocrat could beat the Taliban at its own game?

As the SIGAR report noted archly, “The United States misjudged what would constitute an acceptable justice system from the perspective of many Afghans, which ultimately created an opportunity for the Taliban to exert influence.” Or, as a former USAID official put it, “We dismissed the traditional justice system because we thought it didn’t have any relevance for what we wanted to see in today’s Afghanistan.”

What, then, did the United States want to see in today’s Afghanistan?

When the Bush administration helped shape the post-Taliban Afghan government, it was still claiming that it had little interest in nation building. Pilfering from Afghanistan’s past constitutions was easier than proposing something more appropriate for what had become a very different country. The new constitution created a top-heavy system that gave the president “nearly the same powers that Afghan kings exercised,” as Jennifer Brick Murtazashvili, a prominent Afghanistan scholar, has written.

Strong presidential systems are appealing because they offer the prospect of determined action. But the concentration of power inevitably alienates other stakeholders, particularly on the local and regional levels.

From the beginning, the Afghan Parliament suffered from a legitimacy deficit. Afghanistan used an electoral system known as single nontransferable vote (SNTV), one of the rarest in the world. There are reasons SNTV is sometimes used in local elections but almost never nationally: Among other things, it allocates votes in a way that depresses the development of political parties. If there’s anything Afghanistan needed, it was political parties—and a parliament—that could check the dominance of the president.

The risks of a presidential system are heightened in divided societies, and Afghanistan is divided along ethnic, religious, tribal, linguistic, and ideological lines—in almost every way possible. This raises the stakes of political competition, because what matters most is who ends up at the very top.

Finally, the system works only if the president is competent. The now-exiled president, Ashraf Ghani, managed to be all-powerful in theory but resolutely feckless in practice. Despite having been the chair of the Institute for State Effectiveness, his ineffectiveness—reflected in his mercurial style and penchant for micromanagement—infected the entire political system, and little could be done to reverse the trend as long as he remained in office.

In addition to fashioning new political institutions, America believed that it could transform the culture of a country. Naturally, most American politicians, nongovernmental organizations, and donors thought that the things that worked in advanced democracies would work in fragile would-be democracies. Liberal values were universal. And because they were universal, they would be, if not embraced, at least appreciated.

Somewhere close to $1 billion was spent on promoting gender equality. But such a focus was too often tantamount to social and cultural engineering in a conservative country that was still struggling to establish basic security. USAID’s Gender Equality and Female Empowerment Policy stated as one of its rather ambitious goals “working with men and boys, women and girls to bring about changes in attitudes, behaviors, roles and responsibilities.” This is a worthy objective, but the American approach was heavy-handed and at times counterproductive.

As the second SIGAR report, titled “Support for Gender Equality: Lessons From the U.S. Experience in Afghanistan,” concluded, U.S. officials need “a more nuanced understanding of gender roles and relations in the Afghan cultural context” and of “how to support women and girls without provoking backlash that might endanger them or stall progress.”

These efforts were well-intentioned, but they drew on assumptions about the arc of progress, and the belief that the United States would make progress happen even if Afghans themselves were less sanguine.

If the United States had made other choices, would the outcome have been different? I don’t know. Americans believe in certain things. Suspending those beliefs in the name of understanding another society can easily devolve into moral and cultural relativism that many, if not most Americans, would reject. Would a Republican—or, for that matter, a liberal suspicious of religion’s role in public life—have felt comfortable supporting programs in Afghanistan that involved the implementation of a version of Sharia, even if that version wasn’t the Taliban’s?

But the order and sequence in a transition matter. It’s clear now that we got that sequence wrong in Afghanistan, especially considering that women’s rights had long been one of the country’s most divisive issues. As the experts Rina Amiri, Swanee Hunt, and Jennifer Sova warned in 2004, when the Taliban seemed a relic of the past, “While the situation has markedly improved since the Taliban regime, the stage is set for a struggle between traditionalists and modernists; and once again women’s roles and religion are central to the conflict.”

Was it America’s place to change a culture? Did anyone really expect that the U.S. government would be good at it? If there is any change that should come from within, presumably it’s cultural change. But if there’s anything that’s universal—transcending culture and religion—it is the desire to have a say in one’s own government. Instead of telling Afghans how to live, we could have given them the space to make their own decisions about who they wanted to be.

With the Parliament weak, in part because of that bizarre electoral system, all attention was diverted to presidential contests, which were invariably acrimonious. The result was a winner-takes-all system in a country where the winners had long subjugated the losers, or worse. It is little surprise, then, that “every Afghan presidential election has been brokered or mediated by U.S. diplomats,” as Jarrett Blanc, one of those diplomats, put it. This was the democracy that America and its allies tried, for years, to build.

Many of the political institutions that America helped create have now been washed away. It is almost as if they never existed. By insisting on the primacy of culture over politics, the United States thought it could improve both. Might Afghanistan have been doomed regardless? Perhaps. Now we will never know.
The United States never understood Afghanistan. Am... (show quote)


While I agree with this article almost completely, I disagree with your conclusions you draw that Biden is not at fault and Trump is to blame. The policy the article speaks of was started by Bush. It was continued by Obama. During those years while there were improvements in the country, there was also appeasements given to the terrorists and the war continued with no end in sight. Trump believed that the only way to win the war was through total war and massive destruction and huge loss of life by the Afghans. So he instead decided on an incremental reduction of US presence. It did not include pulling out of bases suddenly and leaving ordinance, civilians, and the Afghan who had been aiding us behind. It did not include abandoning Bagram. It did include accepting those Afghans after strict vetting, which was being accomplished.

Was his plan perfect in every point? Only someone divine can be expected to be perfect.

Reply
 
 
Aug 24, 2021 21:58:18   #
Dwbill Loc: Sunvalley,NV
 
Carol Kelly wrote:
You are as sick as Biden and as big a liar.


Biden doesn't even know where he is !! He is delusional ,don't know what to do ! He Surrendered to the
Taliban !!!! I'm surprised he didn't get on his knees and Beg !!!!!!!!

Reply
Aug 24, 2021 22:03:45   #
JoyV
 
moldyoldy wrote:
The people released by Obama were not allowed to go back to Afghanistan.


Yeah just like Obama's red line in the sand. Of course telling terrorists they are free but mustn't go back and should stop being naughty and play nice, was some sort of guarantee?

Reply
Aug 24, 2021 22:12:16   #
Radiance3
 
moldyoldy wrote:
The images coming out of Afghanistan have been disturbing. But let's be clear: The Trump Administration led us straight into this mess. And President Biden is doing everything he can to get us out of it.

In Afghanistan, President Biden got dealt yet another losing hand from the Trump Administration. Their Doha Agreement with the Taliban violated the most basic principles of self-government for the Afghan people. There was no way to enforce it or make sure the Taliban kept its word. There was no denunciation of al-Qaeda terrorists. Worst of all, the deal didn't mandate the Taliban stop attacks against Afghan security forces.

All of this set the stage for the chaotic scenes we're seeing on TV today.

Trump's deal with the Taliban was flawed from the start, which is why Trump's own officials are now scrambling to distance themselves from it. "To have our Generals say that they are depending on diplomacy with the Taliban is an unbelievable scenario. Negotiating with the Taliban is like dealing with the devil," tweeted Trump's ambassador to the United Nations, Nikki Haley, who certainly voiced no such objections while working for Trump. She was not alone. "Our secretary of state signed a surrender agreement with the Taliban," Trump's former national security adviser, H.R. McMaster, told journalist Bari Weiss. "This collapse goes back to the capitulation agreement of 2020. The Taliban didn't defeat us. We defeated ourselves."

To have our Generals say that they are depending on diplomacy with the Taliban is an unbelievable scenario. Negotiating with the Taliban is like dealing with the devil.

Even Mike Pompeo, Trump's Secretary of State and the man who negotiated the deal with the Taliban in the first place, is now denouncing it. He had the audacity to tell Fox News that the "debacle" in Afghanistan "will certainly harm America's credibility with its friends and allies." He certainly didn't seem to think so while he was laying the groundwork for the debacle in the first place.

"We're letting the Taliban run free and wild all around Afghanistan," complained Pompeo, the man who cut the deal to release the Taliban's leader from prison in the first place. Trump ordered the release of 5,000 of the top captured Taliban fighters last year—a decision his own designated "peace envoy" Zalmay Khaliizad said publicly had disturbed him. Those same fighters are now threatening the streets of Kabul.

Republican outrage was also completely absent in the first 45 days of Donald Trump's agreement, when there were over 4,500 Taliban attacks resulting in over 900 Afghan casualties. Where was the Republican outrage about the Afghan army then, when their President handed over Afghanistan to the Taliban? Nonexistent.

They saved their denunciations for Biden's efforts to clean up Trump's mess—efforts which have as yet cost many fewer lives.

But this hypocrisy is not limited to former Trump officials. Take House Republican firebrand Rep. Jim Jordan (R-OH), for example, who only tweeted once in 2014 about losing an American general in combat in Afghanistan, until discovering it as a partisan issue this summer. Now that he can blame Biden for Trump's mess, he hasn't stopped tweeting about it.

Jordan is one of many Republicans hypocritically denouncing a Biden withdrawal that they championed under Trump. The Republican Party used to brag about Trump's "historic" peace deal in Afghanistan. Now, they went so far as to delete that press release to pave the way for a new, partisan attack on President Biden over the end results of that very agreement.

We shouldn’t be surprised about Joe Biden’s Afghanistan failures.

Have you seen the southern border?

— Rep. Jim Jordan (@Jim_Jordan) August 17, 2021
Twitter is awash in angry Republicans outraged about our allies in Afghanistan who we should have evacuated before we left. And yet, it is Trump—and his advisor Stephen Miller—who are the reason so many Afghan interpreters are stuck in Afghanistan due to stalled special immigrant visa application infrastructure. Former Vice President Mike Pence advisor Olivia Troye wrote on Twitter that folks like Trump and Miller made it "even more challenging" to get allies out, overriding the concerns of others in the administration. "There were cabinet mtgs about this during the Trump Admin where Stephen Miller would peddle his racist hysteria about Iraq & Afghanistan," Troye wrote. "He & his enablers across gov't would undermine anyone who worked on solving the SIV issue by devastating the system at DHS & State."

🧵There were cabinet mtgs about this during the Trump Admin where Stephen Miller would peddle his racist hysteria about Iraq & Afghanistan. He & his enablers across gov’t would undermine anyone who worked on solving the SIV issue by devastating the system at DHS & State.(1/7) pic.twitter.com/vtNWaasCK7

— Olivia of Troye (@OliviaTroye) August 20, 2021
In fact, at the end of last year, the Trump administration had nearly 11,000 visas authorized for Afghans who helped America during the last 20 years—but only gave out 1,300 while most of the withdrawal took place.

So whose fault is it that so many of those who helped us are stuck in Afghanistan? The burden of that responsibility falls squarely on Trump's shoulders. And it is Biden who is working diligently to get them out.

And it was Trump who bragged just this April that the process of moving the U.S. military out of Afghanistan had progressed to a point that even if President Biden wanted to, he "couldn't stop the process." Trump was right: There was nothing Biden could do to stop what was coming in Afghanistan short of another massive U.S. military deployment. According to the text of the February 29, 2020 agreement Trump signed with the Taliban, within 135 days, America would withdraw from five major bases and agreed to complete the rest of its major withdrawals within nine months. In other words, the Army agreed to pull out of Afghanistan long before Biden's inauguration, which it mostly accomplished.

So to those blaming President Biden for how the Afghanistan war is ending, let's be real: Trump led us into this mess. And he could not get us out of it.

Joe Biden is doing something Trump and two other presidents over two decades never could or would do: President Biden is ending the war in Afghanistan.

For that, he deserves our respect.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/stop-blaming-biden-for-afghanistan-he-s-cleaning-up-trump-s-mess-opinion/ar-AANDxv2?ocid=msedgdhp&pc=U531
The images coming out of Afghanistan have been dis... (show quote)

==================
Moldy, please don't clog your brain. President Trumps timeline for exit was May 31, 2021. Unfortunately the election was stolen. And now Biden took over as president. What did we get.
Demented, lunatic, inept, lying president Biden, coward surrendered to the Taliban. Like Obama, he also gave all the US military equipment to the enemies used to fighting the war. It cost billions fo dollars. Now the Taliban is very powerful and very rich.

If the timeline is not enough to bring all Americans home, and the Talibans hurt them, or used as ransom, Col. Oliver North, retired, advised to bomb the head of the Taliban who now occupies the palace. But Biden must keep that very secret so that the Taliban could not use the Americans to shelter them.

Reply
Aug 24, 2021 22:18:31   #
America 1 Loc: South Miami
 
moldyoldy wrote:
Any Democrat would have been better than trump. As Biden has shown.


Get to bed and see if you can dream up something more ridiculous.

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