Cuda2020

Ah, I see, is Mother Goose the extent of your general literary reading?

Cuda2020

Look at your posts,actually jsut look at this one, then come talk to me how the left hates. What blatant hypocrisy.

straightUp Loc: California

I agree that it seems he can be effective when he chooses to be but I think that's an illusion created by his success with one specific group of people.

I'll try to explain this metaphorically...

A president has two very different "outside lines"... Line-1 goes to the politicians that a president is expected to work with. This line requires a command of politics because everyone on that line is going to be a political expert. Line-2 goes to the masses in America of which few are as politically astute as those on line-1.

Now, I recently read an op-ed that suggested how Trump surprised the GOP and took the primary. The author pointed out that main-line Republicans were out of touch with the people. I think these people, such as Jeb Bush were probably more focused on Line-1, with concerns like world domination and corporate empires. Trump was more focused on Line-2 which is what made him the populist in 2016.

It's worth pointing out the difference because it explains how success as a populist on Line-2 doesn't always translate to success as a president on Line-1. Indeed, Trump succeeded on Line-2 and won the presidency, but as a president he failed miserably on Line-1.

This is because Trump is politically inept. So, he can't pick up Line-1 without looking like an idiot and world leaders have all lost respect for him.

But on Line-2 it's a different story because we are dealing with normal people who for the most part have a very limited understanding of politics.

Trump's entire career can be summed up as a long succession of confidence games in which he looks for marks... people who are too stupid to figure out they are being screwed. This is why he has a host of fraud charges that have been put on hold while he remains in office. Finding stupid people to screw is the most important skill for any con artist and Trump is an expert at it.

As it turns out, only about 24% of the people on Line-2 were foolish enough to fall for Trump's con-game, but given the other factors you mentioned that 24% put him close enough to a victory that the EC was able to tilt the table enough to give him the presidency.

One more analogy to sum this up... Trump's isolated success in 2016 wasn't a matter of hitting home runs in the big leagues as much as putting on an act for the little leagues.


I'm not so sure. For decades now, conservatives have been pelted with "pro-business" rhetoric designed to perpetuate the misconception that as a people we are entirely dependent on the business interests that create the very situations they complain about.

I actually know conservatives that forget they are on welfare when they bitch about entitlement programs. It doesn't make logical sense but it doesn't have to... the conditioning has penetrated deep into their emotional core asn as such they are bound to bite any hand that feeds. I honestly think their best hope is to lose elections.


Yes! Hatred is a very powerful emotion with a Pavlov trigger... No facts or logic are needed, just triggers. And extreme politics is hatred's biggest fan.

We can find hate being leveraged on the left too, but there it seem more limited to private sector advocacies. In mainstream politics, especially within the government it seems the alt-right is the only user of hatred.


Some people will call that an example of hatred toward Trump and it's hard to argue with that, but I don't think that hatred is an overriding factor. I think the overriding factor is in the facts and logic that expose Trump for the threat that he is to the well-being of the American people, even those that support him.

In fact, I would even go so far as to say that a LOT of what comes off as hatred for Trump is more about the frustration we have with his supporters that refuse to consider the facts.

Cuda2020

The right extremist like to catch what is thrown out at them and try to toss it back, but it has little validity. Hate for example, I've had it thrown at me... just to do it, and I've explained hate is not wanting someone to leave office because he has proven to be unethical and ill equipped for the position, or that he's proven to be detrimental to the country. That is not hate of a person, it is hating the actions of a person. I can hate his constant lies, his deception, but I don't hate the man, I am completely indifferent to him personally. If he were to die, I would feel nothing, I would feel sympathy for his family...maybe.

Do I want him ousted, certainly, but that is for the preservation and sovereignty of the country, not over hate of a man. Unfortunately as we've spoken of the mentality that we've witnessed, I don't think they can comprehend these differences, things are much more simplistic for them, black and white , good versus bad.

You're correct when you mentioned the frustration with many of us that we can not shine the light to these people, they keep their eyes closed and refuse to see him for what he is. Where I feel most strongly disappointed is in the republican representatives that have turned their backs on our governing process and have followed this guy, and will continue even if it played out to our constitutional destruction.

That impeachment, was a constitutional travesty we have never witnessed the likes of before. The actions of the senate has set a new low bar and has now opened the doors to new interlopers who may someday sit in that seat in the oval office. Do I hate that...you betcha.

You're also correct of the people voting for Trump who are on assistance, I sometimes wish they would stay in office long enough for these truths to surface, and the well runs dry, maybe then they would see who really butters their bread, and who, is actually for the people. Jeez Straight, all they have to do is watch the bills the right wants to pass, look at who cancelled meals on wheels, sure as hell not the democrats. I sure hope they're looking at SS and how they want to cut that, and then do what, reallocate it to more military contractors.

Let us hope when we get back in control some new amendments will get on the agenda and actually get passed. Thanks to Trump he's pointed out our weakest links to the powers of the president and the AG.

I believe Parliament may have things better balanced out, not sure. You can fill me in on that.

straightUp Loc: California

I've made the same observations. I does seem that "hate" is among the words that the right tosses around just to be derogatory. And there is definitely an "I'm rubber you're glue" response pattern on the right.


I think that's largely a result of their own ability to assess the facts being pushed aside by an outrageous narrative. Most of the time, these narratives affirm the erroneous assumptions they've already made. The last thing they want to do is make the effort to research why they are wrong.


Yes, despite how accustomed I am to the right-wing denial of facts, I was still shocked at how far it went to deny or excuse the blatant violations of protocol during the impeachment process. That was one of those events where I thought... "OK, there's no way they can't see the problem here." ...and yet.


They don't look at the bills or the laws. They just simply don't. I've been saying this for years... look at the laws they passed! Look at the bills they want to pass! But they can't seem to shut off the outrage being pumped into their minds by right-wing media channels so instead of focusing on what the politicians are DOING they obsess over what the media is saying about them.

Last night at band practice I listened to our fiddle player bitch about the pediophilia rings organized by the Democrats. Really? BTW, Tom Hanks is apparently a pediophile did you know that? (I'm guessing that means he's not a Trump fan). There's only been one or two times where I have ever been able to lead the conversation to the point about actual legislation and her response was to wave it off with, "I don't know much about how the government works". Really?

These people don't deserve a democracy and I don't think they want one either. What the deplorables want is a tyranny that caters specifically to them. They might deny it but that is in effect precisely what they are asking for.


Yes, on the plus side there are the lessons learned and I do think some of the provisions in the Constitution need to be made more explicit. I would like to see some focus on the separation of power. I would also like to see some attention directed toward the question of enforcement so when a president refuses to comply with demands from Congress, he will suffer DIRE consequences.

We are supposed to be a representative democracy, not a dictatorship. Congress is elected by the people to represent the people. The president is not elected by the people (or Hillary would be president) nor is he/she obliged to represent them. Congress should therefore be the ultimate national authority or we can't call ourselves a democracy.

Republicans have been trying to override the will of the people for a long time now by shifting power from Congress to the president and Trump's administration has taken that to a whole new level reminiscent of the fascist shutdown of democratic systems in the 1930's. Fortunately for us, it's Trump not Hitler or the transition would have already been done.


I think a parliamentary system is more efficient in the sense that the head of state and the head of government are two separate jobs. In our system, the president does both and when that president is as inept as Trump, the impact is tremendous. In a parliamentary system, the head of state, usually a monarch, handles the symbolic pomp and diplomacy while the head of government, usually the prime minister rolls his sleeves up to focus on actual government.

If we were a parliamentary system (using British rules), Nancy Pelosi would be our prime minister by virtue of the fact that she is the majority leader in the House. I would consider that alone to be a giant improvement over the situation we have now.

Meanwhile, if Trump was actually a king (using British rules), he would have far less authority than he has now as president. So, yes - I believe you are correct in saying a parliament would be more balanced.

BTW, the monarch that the British are "stuck" with has a current approval rating of 81%. The president that only 24% of the American people voted for has a current approval rating of 37%. So it seems that per capita more Americans are stuck with a head of state they don't want than British people are AND they are paying more for it. American taxpayers cover millions of dollars in living expenses for the First Family. The British monarchy pays for their own expenses leaving security as the ONLY expense covered by British taxpayers.

Just another example of how we Americans are getting a shittier deal but are led believe it's the best deal ever.

Cuda2020

Yes we are in full agreement, especially to the point of of them wanting a dictatorship that caters to them, but as we know... not really, especially if they're not of carte blanche high society crowd. They remind me of the Jew heading for the *showers* and asking the Nazi if he has a bar of soap, lol. But I've read posters here stating they'd be fine as Trump as our Dictator, that's some sick $*&t right there.

Thank you for the validation, I read a little bit about it and to my surprise (from my American conditioning) I thought, damn that set up sounds better fool proof then what we got, lol. I would love to be able to take the best out of both.

But... as you say it would be good under Pelosi, but what if it were under McConnell Jeeez there's a thought.

Your correct we are literally in the throws of the *Art of the Deal*. Aren't the Brits going through struggling with a conservative take over also? I see their protests seem very well organized, I thought I recently caught a short clip of all the protesters with the same sign and every one had one. It might have been someone else ,it was a quick drive by one day walking through my house while the news was on, lol.

straightUp Loc: California

Regarding "spooky" McConnell; I'm basing the equivalency on the fact that the House of Commons is the house of elected district representatives, kind of like our House of Representatives of which McConnell is not a member.

Of course that doesn't preclude slimy Republicans from holding that position anyway, like the way John Bonehead did during the Obama years, when he announced that the House will refuse to work with the president and then let the government shut down to prove his point. He even refused to give Obama the funding he asked for to upgrade security in Benghazi months before the ordeal happened and the dumbshit Republicans have been trying to blame Hillary's email server ever since.

And yes... The Brits are in that situation now, where a populist movement driven by right-wing, nationalist excitement over Brexit has given the Conservative Party the majority of the seats, putting Boris Johnson (mini-Trump) in charge which explains why the UK became the hardest hit by COVID-19 in all of Europe.

I think overall, the design of our system is fine. But the problem with ANY democratic system is that the people are only going to get out of it what they put into it. For a long time now American apathy has allowed the plutocrats to effectively steal our democracy. As a result, the "vote" has become far less effective against the "contribution".

When Republicans bowed to the Citizens United decision to allow unlimited funds from undisclosed sources to influence the elections, I knew our democracy was in peril and the fact that this decision was justified by the idea that spending money is a form of free speech I knew the sanity of the American people was in question.

I think your analogy of the Jew asking the Nazi for a bar of soap on his way to the "showers" is a perfect way to explain how oblivious middle-class Republicans are to what their "heroes" are actually planning.

It's horrible to watch... All the Republicans are saying the same thing... "give your money to the wealthy so they can help us. Only the wealthy can help us, but they NEED our money!" Obviously, they lack the confidence to help themselves... Always looking to wealthy people to help, or Jesus, or anyone but themselves. It makes sharing a democracy with them a real drag.

Cuda2020

Yes, I recall the entire treasonous behavior like it was yesterday, do you think that's an exaggeration, I don't. I found it unbelievably subversive, in undermining our own country when we were at it's weakest state. That's like having your best friend kick you in the teeth while your down. If that isn't betrayal I don't know what is. How offensive can on consider that? McConnell clearly at the forefront working along the GOP cohorts, which certainly includes the lobbyist not only representatives. Of course they are still fully in play and hard at work just a different puppet which their sleeve has their hand in, Trump continuing his anti party speeches dividing this country. What a hero.

The whole thing of citizens united, was the beginning of the end for any sort of just campaigning and that was a plan came to fruition with the Koch's Case and was completed and has still not been rectified, even during the Obama years. During those first couple of Obama years I felt there should have been things done by Obama before he could possibly lose control in the next election which we know he did.

Changing the course of Citizens United would have been one of them, and changing the tax base since Bush's reallocation of funds would have been the other.

You are correct with your synopsis of the right wingers wanting some kind of fatherly care, maybe that is exactly why the strong right wing bible banger's embrace a Patriarchal form of governing. They are so eager to obey, and conform, maybe in reality they find free thinking along with free choice too unruling and chaotic.
Again that is all based in fear. Fearing the new or unknown, fearing new possibilities this is why they hate progressivism.

But right now we are witnessing the great undermining of our country and why this election is an extremely pivotal and crucial one.

Rose42

Some really rather bizarre conclusions in this thread but the right also has some rather bizarre conclusions.

Nothing will change with this election. Biden isn't what this country needs and the democrats aren't going to right anything. They are doing their part to undermine this country and those with the real power are thankful American voters are so apathetic.

"Right wingers want fatherly care". L-O-L!!!