Patty

Why is it that Washington believes Ukraine belongs to them?

Urges Sanctions on Russia, Weapons Shipments to Ukraine

by Jason Ditz, April 20, 2014
"Speaking today on Meet the Press, Senate Foreign Relations Committee official Sen. Bob Corker (R – TN) warned that “we’re going to lose eastern Ukraine if we continue as we are, and I think it’s going to be a geopolitical disaster.”

Sen. Corker’s comments suggest he is under the impression that eastern Ukraine has been anywhere remotely in the US sphere of influence at some point in history, a position not backed up by reality.

Corker’s belief led him to push for the US to escalate its sanctions against Russia to punish them for threatening US control over the region, saying it was time for President Obama to be more “forceful” in the area.

Corker said he wants sanctions against Russia’s government as well as its energy sector, and that the US should “beef up our security relationship with Ukraine,” including direct aid for its military which is presently attacking eastern Ukraine".

Floyd Brown Loc: Milwaukee WI

I would say it is not much unlike an over playing of an interest in Russia being carried on by some one like you.

What goes on in Russia is of concern to all. But every thing that happens any where in the world is of concern to us all.

But at some point ones concerns get carried away. To the point of over reacting.

Things have been set in motion & there is little any one but the major players in the game can do to stop the path that is
being taken.

Willingly or not most of us will just live with what ever comes of it.

But as to who carries the most blame for what has & will happen.

It will lay with those that support & have supported the greed of the few the most.

petertimber

Patty as I have stated on several occasions I believe that East Ukraine goes to the West for the natural gas pipelines to Europe and west Ukraine back to Russia followed by Lithuania, Estonia and Latvia. This has already been agreed to between Putin and Obama.

Patty

A war between super powers will effect us all.
Russia is now supporting Irans nuclear program and the US is stealing Iranian privately owned buildings in New York to further encourage a war.

Floyd Brown Loc: Milwaukee WI

I don't know how old you are but I have lived through out the course of the Cold War with Russia.

In the mid 50's they set a systems of alarms to be used in case we would be under attack.

One night at about 3AM the alarms went off. It woke my mother & I. We looked at each other & said what do we do now? We had no real answer so we just went back to bed.

That is what I have been doing & will continue to do.

But during the 60's I did loose some sleep over the issues in Germany when I was in the army but that just meant a couple of extra months in the service.

I put more faith in my over all well being in the hands of Obama's than Putin's answers as to world problems.

I question the motives of any one living in the US that thinks otherwise.

Comment Loc: California

The issue is: should we continue to be the policeman of the world. I think not; notice I said, think not. I think Obuma is a weak president who votes present more than not. However, the Ukraine issue is a European affair and they should take care of their own affairs. We have no business getting involved. Onuma's doing nothing is fine with me. I will save as much conservative blood as possible but, more willing to commit democratic blood. :lol: :lol: :lol: For decades the US has spent money that we don't have. As a nation we have become a welfare state. Somehow we have to adjust that. People on welfare are not innovative; many are not working and have no desire to work. We have to address that if we are ever to return to a superpower of industry. I have ideas but, that is reserved for another discussion..

danclone1

The Ukraine is definitely more in the European sphere of influence then u.s.

danclone1

The Russians have their only all-weather naval access to the alantic ocean in Crimea.They were never give that up to Ukrainian dissents(like they wouldn't give up the corruption that caused the Ukraine to revolt against them).I think that economic sanctions were put up to discourage putin from making a bigger land grab than that.

Patty

I am for any force that can break up the insane need of the elitists to gain hegemony of the rest of the world.
The US maintains to this day over a dozen direct dependencies, the largest of which is Puerto Rico. Its military forces are active over most of the globe: at last audit about 226 countries have US military troops, 63 of which host American bases, while only 46 countries in the world have no US military presence - a projection of military power that makes the Roman, British, and Soviet empires pale in comparison.
Starting with the Phillipines to present day.
"U.S. Brig. Gen. Jacob H. Smith: "I want no prisoners. I wish you to kill and burn, the more you kill and burn the better you will please me. I want all persons killed who are capable of bearing arms in actual hostilities against the United States."
Major Littleton W. T. Waller: How young?
Smith: Ten years and up. "

"U.S.-origin weapons find their way into conflicts the world over. The United States supplied arms or military technology to more than 92% of the conflicts under way in 1999. The costs to the families and communities afflicted by this violence is immeasurable. But to most arms dealers, the profit accumulated outweighs the lives lost. In the 1990's, over 65% of world arms deliveries were sold or given to developing nations, where lingering conflicts or societal violence can scare away potential investors. "

"•1944-Present: The US government tries to erase its own history. Not only by controlling the manifolds of public/academic/media access to government agencies but by outright destruction of its own historical documents. The demands of national security require that certain agencies are not held accountable for their actions for some finite length of time, but a nation is only damaged by wiping out its past.
In 1994 it was revealed that in August 1974, the Joint Chiefs of Staff destroyed all the minutes and transcripts of their meetings going back to 1947, and in 1978 essentially stopped keeping any such records.

The State Department's own historians hired to review the declassification process have been duly outraged by such policies. Dr. Warrant Cohen resigned as chairman of HADCOM in 1989 because of distortions of the documentary record regarding US policy towards Iran.

Despite the advances made since the enactment of the FOIA, on Nov 1, 2001 President Bush issued an executive order to seal all presidential records since 1980".

jonhatfield Loc: Green Bay, WI

The real question is, why is it that Russia believes Ukraine, Tajikistan, Lithuania, Latvia, Estonia, etc. belongs to them!! :!: :!:

Ukraine has a right to be a sovereign nation, NOT RE-SOVEREIGNIZED INTO RUSSIA.

As I recall "re-sovereignization" is the peculiar term used by Putin (and by Putin Patty and the quoted Russian propaganda sources) to describe the undoing of USA hegemony in the world. The term more applies to Russia and it's formerly controlled satellites. Those nations aspire to be free, to have their own sovereignty...but Russia underhandedly tries to bundle them back into FASCIST MOTHER RUSSIA...a quite unnatural aspiration that the world disapproves of.

So, Putin Patty, what do you have to say about re-sovereignization as it applies to Russia's attempt to re-satellite its neighboring sovereign nations?? hmmmm? :?: :roll: :roll:

Patty

Theres that ugly head of your illness popping up again. Having a fact disability must be hard for you to live with.
http://www.theguardian.com/world/video/2014/feb/07/eu-us-diplomat-victoria-nuland-phonecall-leaked-video

jonhatfield Loc: Green Bay, WI

So, Putin Patty can't answer to the "re-sovereinization" Russian & its satellites issue?? Only another Alinskyism troll deflection from neo-Nazi Putin Patty?! Propaganda Patty's credibility is faaaading. :XD: :XD: :XD:

Patty

jonnie explain to me why Russia sent in peace keepers in Kosovo when the Serbs attacked them over their referendum? The serbs killed the peace keepers and Russian Kosovo citizens so he sent in troops who made the Serbs give Kosovo their independents. Please explain to me why Putin who had complete control of the two areas did he warn Serbia that if they attacked Kosovo again he would be back. He left Kosovo as an independent country.
How do you explain that and continue to spout that Russia is trying to land grab. You are either stupid or blind. Those are the only two options you have.

jonhatfield Loc: Green Bay, WI

That is quite a Russian twist on the NATO operation that freed Kosovo from Serbia in the Yugoslavia breakup. Pure and simple fabricated Russian version of events regarding Kosovo.

Would you care to enlighten us about the source of this Russian version of Kosovo history? hmmmm?? :XD: :XD:

Patty

How does it feel to know that I completely control your every waking thought?
Want to know what should be even more embarrassing to you. Your complete infatuation with me. Look at your post page.
"
Patty wrote:
Let me help you out since you don't seem to know when you have been made a fool of.
Check out Putin's "confession" about the "polite armed men in green"
Note his sarcasm and the smirk on his face.
This is what your "credible" MSM has twisted into a confession and made you look like a complete fool. Watch the video and hide your empty head in shame.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P-ikb6roqMg&feature=player_embedded




Anything to defend your dear leader Putin. Smirk smirk smirk.
Main -> If you have money in any of these bailed out banks.... (go to message) Apr 21, 14 12:10:12

Patty wrote:
We are talking about wealth protection. Something you don't have to worry about.


"We" is Putin Patty attempting to undermine the American economy in the interests of Putin's Russia. That's what I'm worried about. The 250+ subject postings in 6/7 weeks have 3 constant themes--US as evil world hegemon, Ukraine as US aggression, and the doom of the dollar & IMF vs. the rising of alternate world currency (with the banking propaganda lines as side part in the hegemony and world reserve currency propaganda lines).

250+ subject postings and 3000 posts in 6/7 weeks anti-America pro-Putin fascist Russia...5 or 6 subjects a day, 60 some postings a day...day after day since Mar. 4, 2014!!
Main -> Sen. Corker: We’re Going to Lose East Ukraine (go to message) Apr 21, 14 11:56:19

Patty wrote:
Theres that ugly head of your illness popping up again. Having a fact disability must be hard for you to live with.
http://www.theguardian.com/world/video/2014/feb/07/eu-us-diplomat-victoria-nuland-phoneca...



So, Putin Patty can't answer to the "re-sovereinization" Russian & its satellites issue?? Only another Alinskyism troll deflection from neo-Nazi Putin Patty?! Propaganda Patty's credibility is faaaading.
Main -> Putin calls on EU for joint aid to Ukraine (go to message) Apr 21, 14 11:46:33

emarine wrote:
Crimea was not a corporate matter... I feel Putin lost creditability by sending in unmarked troops from the start and waited too long to fess up to the obvious.



And Putin Patty has lost credibility by waiting too long to admit that Putin fessed up.

Moreover, the latest Patty post refers to the US Ukraine loan guarantee when the subject was Russia's reneging on its loan. Either confusion or reflexive deflection or both.

One wonders if Putin Patty will ever fess up regarding the Putin propaganda op on OPP?
Main -> If you have money in any of these bailed out banks.... (go to message) Apr 21, 14 11:33:47

LAwrence wrote:
If your bank is FDIC insured then the government owns it and can at any time steal your money.



Well, I guess according to your and Putin Patty's poot about the banks, we'd better all take our FDIC-subject-to-taking Fed Reserve worthless dollars out of the deposit insured banks and stuff them in a mattress or buy a bar of gold. I personally will miss the convenience of paying my bills by automatic bank payments, but I suppose I can pull a few worthless Fed Reserve notes from the mattress or shave off a bit from the gold bar & drive over to hand the worthless FR bills or gold shavings over to pay my creditor bills.

You people are full of poot about banking and a Fed Reserve elitist plot of some 100 years duration. Why don't you scoop your bank poot over to Pooty Putin's Russia where that sort of propaganda originates?
Main -> Sen. Corker: We’re Going to Lose East Ukraine (go to message) Apr 21, 14 11:14:57

Patty wrote:
Why is it that Washington believes Ukraine belongs to them?


The real question is, why is it that Russia believes Ukraine, Tajikistan, Lithuania, Latvia, Estonia, etc. belongs to them!!

Ukraine has a right to be a sovereign nation, NOT RE-SOVEREIGNIZED INTO RUSSIA.

As I recall "re-sovereignization" is the peculiar term used by Putin (and by Putin Patty and the quoted Russian propaganda sources) to describe the undoing of USA hegemony in the world. The term more applies to Russia and it's formerly controlled satellites. Those nations aspire to be free, to have their own sovereignty...but Russia underhandedly tries to bundle them back into FASCIST MOTHER RUSSIA...a quite unnatural aspiration that the world disapproves of.

So, Putin Patty, what do you have to say about re-sovereignization as it applies to Russia's attempt to re-satellite its neighboring sovereign nations?? hmmmm?
Main -> U.S. ground troops going to Poland, defense minister says (go to message) Apr 21, 14 10:48:10

Patty wrote:
If you want to regain some of your completely lost credibility here you have to focus more on the issues instead of the source.
In this case why have the NATO forces moved further east despite the agreement by the US that they wouldn't cross past Germany?
Also why did the US after lying to the other UN members that voted on a no fly zone then use it to attack planes on the ground?

While we have lost any resemblance of a democracy here in the US the Eastern countries have started to embrace new democratic policies.



YEP, STRAIGHT FROM RUSSIA.


Main -> Putin calls on EU for joint aid to Ukraine (go to message) Apr 21, 14 10:37:29

Patty wrote:
You haven't done your research. Putin didn't slow those exports it was a union dispute that was going on in the Ukraine.
"


Azarov explains problems with Ukrainian imports to Russia by processes in Customs Union

15-08-2013 16:32

Ukrainian Prime Minister Mykola Azarov has said that problems in trade with Russia were related to the formation and structuring of the Russia-Belarus-Kazakhstan Customs Unionю


“Right now, there are some difficulties, which we believe are associated primarily with the formation, structuring and formalization of the Customs Union. We've started having differences in approaches,” he said on Thursday. The prime minister urged the media not to blow the situation out of proportion. “At the moment, our mass media are creating buzz over the alleged conflict. Yes, there are problems but these problems should not be blown out of proportion or artificially exaggerated,” he said.

As far as the offer for a loan it was not offered to the present government in Kiev so of course it is not valid any longer. There are different people completely than were being negotiated with before.



So it was a 'union' dispute...that is, Ukraine resisting being part of a Russian trade "union"...that is, having total control over Ukraine trade and dominating Ukraine. NO WONDER THE UKRAINIANS RESISTED.

And, of course, Russia reneged on the loan when Ukraine slipped out of its attempted iron fist control. The smart thing to do would have been to be big about the loan guarantee and preserve connections with Ukraine for another day.

So, another example of your going to peculiar lengths to find excuse for Mother New Russia's fascist attempt to establish hegemony over Ukraine. Somewhat hypocritical considering Putin's and Putin Patty fabricated propaganda lines about US hegemony. Hoot, hoot, hoot.
Main -> Putin calls on EU for joint aid to Ukraine (go to message) Apr 21, 14 10:26:15

Patty wrote:
Ok I read your first sentence here and you don't seem to understand what a "referendum" means. They weren't Ukraines building that they took over.



That was before the referendum. You seem to understand how to misstate situations--a propaganda operation's major task.
Main -> Putin calls on EU for joint aid to Ukraine (go to message) Apr 20, 14 22:08:52

Patty wrote:
Your "fact disability" must be very challenging to live with. Must be hard to be wrong 99% of the time. I know by the pms I get that you have lost all credibility on this forum. You are good for laughs though.



Gee, and I know by the PMs I get that the 'Patty' part of the OPP Putin propaganda operation is recognized and the extent of its earlier propaganda postings is beginning to be recognized.

The 'Patty' postings have lost all credibility but are good for educating OPP participants in details of the agenda of Russian fascism and its propaganda goals in American politics as well as its geopolitical propaganda lines. Keep it up!
Main -> Putin calls on EU for joint aid to Ukraine (go to message) Apr 20, 14 21:31:51

Patty wrote:
What aprt of "he had 16,000 troops in Crimea and was allowed up to 25,000" aren't you able to wrap your tiny mind around. He doesn't have to tell people who and how many troops he has anywhere as long as he stays within the treaty agreement. Stop being so manipulated by the US MSM. Stupid is very unattractive.




It's a matter of operatives taking over Ukrainian govt. buildings--Putin denied the forces doing this were Russian operatives and later admitted they were. There's no defense for his undercover operation and lying about it for three weeks. Is that why you are trying to pretend he was within treaty to have his agents take over Ukraine offices and bases in Crimea? You really make it very clear where your loyalty belongs...to your Mother Russia, led by fascist Putin who in his every act and pose resembles his German predecessor in fascism. If it was the Italian variety or Spanish or Argentine variety of fascism, it wouldn't be so worrisome.

Just keep denying and trying to deflect. Just keep your OPP operation's other persona identities exposing their roles. It's quite the revelation of the whole otherwise successful propaganda operation over the past months.
Main -> U.S. ground troops going to Poland, defense minister says (go to message) Apr 20, 14 21:08:18

TroubleshooterTim wrote:
More closely to our topic...

a different perspective.
http://english.pravda.ru/opinion/columnists/20-04-2014/127407-ukraine_russia-0/


Yep, straight from Russia.
Main -> U.S. ground troops going to Poland, defense minister says (go to message) Apr 20, 14 18:50:27

Patty wrote:
I think the word your are trying to say is "emerging markets" not "developing countries" Developing countries is not normally used in an economic discussion but more in social development.
What you fail to realize is the tapering by the federal reserve hits EMERGING MARKETS first because they have smaller economies that are dependent on foreign investment. When the fed easy money is pulled back the investors pull out of those countries first and leave them stuck with unfinanced projects. Any more questions I can answer for you there jonnie.


The monetary issue will work out in between over time...the real issue is New Russia fascism and its secessionist strategy. Refer to the New York City Young Republican Club internet site for details on New Russia fascism and the secession strategy.
Main -> Putin calls on EU for joint aid to Ukraine (go to message) Apr 20, 14 18:44:18

Patty wrote:
Your "fact disability" must be very challenging to live with. Must be hard to be wrong 99% of the time. I know by the pms I get that you have lost all credibility on this forum. You are good for laughs though.
"1) A Russian naval presence in Crimea dates to 1783 when the port city of Sevastopol was founded by Russian Prince Grigory Potemkin. Crimea was part of Russia until Nikita Khruschev gave it to Ukraine in 1954.

2) In 1997, amid the wreckage of the USSR, Russia & Ukraine signed a Partition Treaty determining the fate of the military bases and vessels in Crimea. The deal sparked widespread officer ‘defections’ to Russia and was ratified by the Russian & Ukrainian parliaments in 1999. Russia received 81.7 percent of the fleet’s ships after paying the Ukrainian government US$526.5 million.

3) The deal allowed the Russian Black Sea Fleet to stay in Crimea until 2017. This was extended by another 25 years to 2042 with a 5-year extension option in 2010.
The Russian navy is allowed up to

- 25,000 troops,

- 24 artillery systems with a caliber smaller than 100 mm,

- 132 armored vehicles, and

- 22 military planes, on Crimean territory.


The Russian operatives pretending to be Crimeans who took over Crimea were not part of any treaty. Putin admitted to (bragged about) the Russian operatives' role in Crimea takeover. Lyin' Putin said otherwise for four weeks.
Main -> U.S. ground troops going to Poland, defense minister says (go to message) Apr 20, 14 18:36:09

Patty wrote:
jonnie writes." seen as parallel to the 1830s American political division between the establishment northeast Whigs and the west developing region Jacksonian Dems"

I agree why would you deflect from the troops going to Poland to Jacksonian Democracy. Could it be because you don't have any knowledge of either?
You make the dumber of my two dogs look brilliant.



The real question is why you deflected from the troops going to Poland to the BRICS monetary question?? hmmmmm?? My redefinition of the BRICS monetary propaganda issue YOU inserted must have really hit a nerve.

You really don't like having your Putiny propaganda lines destroyed, do you? It's a hoot what your expected poots in response are. Pooty Patty poots all over anyone disagreeing wih her poots for her dear leader Pooty Putin.