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Haters will not listen/never think for themselves.
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Jan 30, 2020 22:16:29   #
Tug484
 
dtucker300 wrote:
That what happens when to talk to Democrats. You get a blank uncomprehending look on their face that is no better than talking to a wall or sidewalk.


That's true.

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Jan 30, 2020 22:34:10   #
slatten49 Loc: Lake Whitney, Texas
 
lpnmajor wrote:
Huh, and the same could be said of trump lovers as well, no? The unwillingness to think for one's self, to listen to others without bias and the inability to admit that one might be wrong, is not relegated to any single party, ideology or socioeconomic category....................it's a universal human characteristic.

I agree, Doc. Much of the divisiveness on OPP is brought on by one of humans' greatest frailties: The inability to recognize the same flaws, faults and shortcomings in themselves that they so readily see in others. Clearly, that frailty...like hatred and non-thinking, is bi-partisan & ideologically diverse.

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Jan 30, 2020 22:59:39   #
debeda
 
slatten49 wrote:
I agree, Doc. Much of the divisiveness on OPP is brought on by one of humans' greatest frailties: The inability to recognize the same flaws, faults and shortcomings in themselves that they so readily see in others. Clearly, that frailty...like hatred and non-thinking, is bi-partisan & ideologically diverse.


Good point

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Jan 31, 2020 00:11:00   #
nwtk2007 Loc: Texas
 
American Vet wrote:
You mean the one who is getting the job done?

1. Jobs – The stunning recent news on employment proves, more than any other metric, the efficacy of President Trump’s growth doctrine of economic nationalism and the diffusion of power. Defying globalist skeptics from Wall Street, academia, and the corporate media, payrolls surged in America in 2019. The most recent jobs report revealed a plethora of records and extended the wage-growth winning streak to 16 straight months above a 3% pace, a mark seen only three months total during the sluggish Obama years. In addition, the fastest wage gains now flow to those groups that formerly lagged badly in the slow-growth recovery following the Great Recession. For example, the lowest 10% of earners saw income grow at an astounding 7% rate over the last year. Similarly, those without a high school diploma welcomed 9% wage acceleration in 2019.
2. Broadening the Movement – 2019 represented a seminal breakout year for the America First movement as the Republican Party changes to a workers’ party. This new focus translates, already, into significant signs of ethnic, racial, and geographic diversity for the GOP. For example, a recent CNN poll in deeply blue California reported 32% support for Trump vs. current Democratic front-runner Joe Biden. Similarly, recent polls by The Hill and Emerson show Latino approval for the president at nearly 40%. It is difficult to overstate the importance of this kind of minority support, both for politics and, more importantly, for the overall cohesion of our society.
3. Confronting China – Though a near-term détente in trade tensions was reached, Trump proved to the world in 2019 that tariffs can be effectively deployed to force the Chinese Communist Party into a bargaining posture. The soaring economy in America demonstrated that tough trade policy can indeed coincide with growth.
4. Trade Deals With Allies – In contrast to the mostly contentious trade chess match with Beijing, Trump proved that America First hardly means America alone. The USMCA was finally ratified by the House of Representatives this year and points to a new era of prosperity with our neighbors as the global supply chain reorients from the Far East back to the Americas. Similarly, a breakthrough agreement was signed with Japan and the new U.S.-Korea trade pact took effect in early 2019.
5. Judges – While Nancy Pelosi dithers and corporate media obsess over the sham impeachment inquest, President Trump and Senate Majority Leader Mitch Mitchell quietly pile up a historic pace of judicial confirmations. Trump in 2019 secured his 50th federal appeals court judge in only three years, compared to just 55 for President Obama over eight years. Over the long term, remaking the federal judiciary into an originalist, constitutionalist branch of government may create Trump’s most enduring legacy.
6. Remain-in-Mexico Policy – Our country still needs to drastically reform its inane asylum laws and provide vastly more border wall funding, but nonetheless President Trump found a fair and effective near-term solution for border control by requiring asylum seekers to apply from Mexico rather than trespassing across our sovereign border. Not surprisingly, according to NPR, less than 1% of the economic migrants who apply actually qualify as refugees. Trump’s 2019 move, therefore, provides a deterrent and averted a full-scale crisis at our border.
7. Mueller Exoneration – Though admittedly not an active achievement, nevertheless the long-awaited Mueller report validated the president on two key topics. First, that no one in the 2016 Trump campaign actively cooperated with Russia or with any other foreign power. Secondly, Democratic Party chieftains such as Rep. Adam Schiff, along with a complicit media, repeatedly fed the public demonstrable lies for years about supposed “proof” of conspiracy.
8. Al-Baghdadi Killing – The October special forces raid that eliminated the terrorist Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi proved that America can aggressively hunt down terrorists and dispense with enemies without nation-building and concomitant large-scale troop commitments. Some brave U.S. fighters, along with a terrific dog, highlighted that surgical strikes can protect our homeland without the massive outlays of blood and treasure employed by Trump’s predecessors.
9. Natural Gas Exports Soar – Early in the Trump presidency, America became a net natural gas exporter for the first time since the Eisenhower administration. In 2019, this trend expanded in earnest, with an astonishing 60% growth rate of liquefied natural gas exports for the year. Establishing America as an energy superpower drives domestic prosperity, particularly in heartland energy regions, and facilitates affordable energy to power the on-shoring manufacturing renaissance that has produced 500,000 new factory jobs under Trump. In addition, American energy dominance benefits the geopolitical security of the entire globe.
10. Space Force – Establishing the sixth military service branch in 2019 was pure Trump: imaginative, bold, forward-looking, and – predictably – roundly derided by establishment critics. In alignment with his outsider perspective, Trump correctly ascertains the potential of space as a warfighting domain, and that America must dominate there. As satellites increasingly guide the behaviors of our everyday lives, the U.S. Space Force will protect our security and economy far into the future, forming a lasting legacy for this most unorthodox president.
You mean the one who is getting the job done? br ... (show quote)


True!

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Jan 31, 2020 01:04:39   #
Saspatz007 Loc: The goat sheds
 
JFlorio wrote:
The worst feature in our underlying economy is debt. Does anyone truly believe the Democrats will do better on debt reduction?


1950-1953
Truman was President - Democrat
Beginning of term
National debt 257,357,352,351
Increase 3%
Average per annum 1.5%

Eisenhower was President from 1953-1961 -Republican
Beginning of term
National debt 266,071,061,238
End of term 288,970,938,610
Increase 12%
Average per annum 1.5%

President Kennedy 1961-1963 - Democrat
Beginning of term 288,970,938,610
End of term 305,859,632,996
Increase 6%
Average per annum 3%

President Johnson 1963-1969 - Democrat
Beginning of term 305,859,632,996
End of term 353,720,253,841
Increase 16%
Average per annum 3%

President Nixon 1969-1974 - Republican
Beginning of term 353,720,253,841
End of term 475,059,815,731
Increase 25%
Average per annum 5%

President Ford 1974-1977 -Republican
Beginning of term 475,059,815,731
End of term 698,840,000,000
Increase 47%
Average per annum 16%

President Carter 1977-1981 - Democrat
Beginning of term 698,840,000,000
End of term 997,855,000,000
Increase 43%
Average per annum 11%

President Reagan 1981-1989 -Republican
Beginning of term 997,855,000,000
End of term 2,857,430,960,187
Increase 186%
Average per annum 23%

President Bush Sr 1989-1993 -
Republican
Beginning of term 2,857,960,187
End of term 4,411,488,883,139
Increase 54%
Average per annum 13.5%

President Clinton 1993-2001 Democrat
Beginning of term 4,411,488,883,139
End of term 5,807,463,412,200
Increase 32%
Average per annum 4%

President Bush Jr 2001-2009 -Republican
Beginning of term 5,807,463,412,200
End of term 11,909,829,003,511
Increase 105%
Average per annum 13%

President Obama 2009-2017 - Democrat
Beginning of term 11,909,829,003,511
End of term 20,244,900,016,053
Increase 70%
Average per annum 9%

President Trump 2017- Current
Beginning of term 20,244,900,016,053
2019 - 22,719,401,753,433
Increase 1%
Average per annum .5%

Reference Tables
1950-1999
https://www.treasurydirect.gov/govt/reports/pd/histdebt/histdebt_histo4.htm
2000-2019
https://www.treasurydirect.gov/govt/reports/pd/histdebt/histdebt_histo5.htm

Reply
Jan 31, 2020 01:10:42   #
Canuckus Deploracus Loc: North of the wall
 
Saspatz007 wrote:
1950-1953
Truman was President - Democrat
Beginning of term
National debt 257,357,352,351
Increase 3%
Average per annum 1.5%

Eisenhower was President from 1953-1961 -Republican
Beginning of term
National debt 266,071,061,238
End of term 288,970,938,610
Increase 12%
Average per annum 1.5%

President Kennedy 1961-1963 - Democrat
Beginning of term 288,970,938,610
End of term 305,859,632,996
Increase 6%
Average per annum 3%

President Johnson 1963-1969 - Democrat
Beginning of term 305,859,632,996
End of term 353,720,253,841
Increase 16%
Average per annum 3%

President Nixon 1969-1974 - Republican
Beginning of term 353,720,253,841
End of term 475,059,815,731
Increase 25%
Average per annum 5%

President Ford 1974-1977 -Republican
Beginning of term 475,059,815,731
End of term 698,840,000,000
Increase 47%
Average per annum 16%

President Carter 1977-1981 - Democrat
Beginning of term 698,840,000,000
End of term 997,855,000,000
Increase 43%
Average per annum 11%

President Reagan 1981-1989 -Republican
Beginning of term 997,855,000,000
End of term 2,857,430,960,187
Increase 186%
Average per annum 23%

President Bush Sr 1989-1993 -
Republican
Beginning of term 2,857,960,187
End of term 4,411,488,883,139
Increase 54%
Average per annum 13.5%

President Clinton 1993-2001 Democrat
Beginning of term 4,411,488,883,139
End of term 5,807,463,412,200
Increase 32%
Average per annum 4%

President Bush Jr 2001-2009 -Republican
Beginning of term 5,807,463,412,200
End of term 11,909,829,003,511
Increase 105%
Average per annum 13%

President Obama 2009-2017 - Democrat
Beginning of term 11,909,829,003,511
End of term 20,244,900,016,053
Increase 70%
Average per annum 9%

President Trump 2017- Current
Beginning of term 20,244,900,016,053
2019 - 22,719,401,753,433
Increase 1%
Average per annum .5%

Reference Tables
1950-1999
https://www.treasurydirect.gov/govt/reports/pd/histdebt/histdebt_histo4.htm
2000-2019
https://www.treasurydirect.gov/govt/reports/pd/histdebt/histdebt_histo5.htm
1950-1953 br Truman was President - Democrat br Be... (show quote)


Seems like Trump is doing best... So far...

Still... Wouldn't it be nice to see it go down just a bit

Reply
Jan 31, 2020 01:46:28   #
Saspatz007 Loc: The goat sheds
 
Canuckus Deploracus wrote:
Seems like Trump is doing best... So far...

Still... Wouldn't it be nice to see it go down just a bit


I’m actually quite impressed.
I’m not sure how he’s gotten this done, given the Congress he has to deal with.
As for bringing it down. No President has ever pulled that off.

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Jan 31, 2020 01:47:33   #
Canuckus Deploracus Loc: North of the wall
 
Saspatz007 wrote:
I’m actually quite impressed.
I’m not sure how he’s gotten this done, given the Congress he has to deal with.
As for bringing it down. No President has ever pulled that off.


Fingers crossed...

Reply
Jan 31, 2020 02:06:23   #
dtucker300 Loc: Vista, CA
 
Canuckus Deploracus wrote:
Seems like Trump is doing best... So far...

Still... Wouldn't it be nice to see it go down just a bit


That's because the economy is doing well under Trump. The 21st century has not been good for the deficit. The end of Clinton's presidency had an actual surplus the last year from the Contract with America agreement between Clinton and the Republicans. Having wars with no way to pay for it was a big mistake of Dubya's. The problem with the Democrats is they always want to expand government and spend more money on new programs instead of paying down debt during the rich years and having surpluses for the lean years to carry us through. The Republicans have been almost as bad.

Silver was taken out of coinage in 1965 and it has been downhill ever since. We were in Vietnam and pushing the Great Society programs. Then we went off the gold standard. In other words, for the past 50 years, America has been on a spending spree. We are almost up to the same level of debt as a percentage of GDP that we had at the end of WWII. It wasn't a problem then because we were basically the only game in town, economically. It is not too late yet, similarly for the global warming crises, but we are spending ourselves into oblivion, and that is an existential problem that we can and should address. As long as people keep voting for Democratic Socialists who give everything away to those who don't earn it, we are in big trouble. The climate crisis is more a world crisis that we are already doing our part for it. The best thing to help other countries is to help develop them economically so they can afford corrective action to environmental problems and degradation. The biggest polluters in the 20th century were the communist countries such as The Soviet Union and China

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Jan 31, 2020 07:56:22   #
slatten49 Loc: Lake Whitney, Texas
 
Saspatz007,

"President Trump 2017- Current
Beginning of term 20,244,900,016,053
2019 - 22,719,401,753,433
Increase 1%
Average per annum .5%"

The difference between the beginning of Trump's term and the end of 2019 is close to $2.5 trillion. It seems that would make the increase closer to 11% over his time in office, and over 3% increase per annum. Still, impressive figures...but much more than 1% overall increase and .5% per annum.

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Jan 31, 2020 08:13:47   #
Canuckus Deploracus Loc: North of the wall
 
slatten49 wrote:
Saspatz007,

"President Trump 2017- Current
Beginning of term 20,244,900,016,053
2019 - 22,719,401,753,433
Increase 1%
Average per annum .5%"

The difference between the beginning of Trump's term and the end of 2019 is close to $2.5 trillion. It seems that would make the increase closer to 11% over his time in office, and over 3% increase per annum. Still, impressive figures...but much more than 1% overall increase and .5% per annum.


Good catch...

Ashamed to have missed it

Reply
 
 
Jan 31, 2020 08:32:01   #
straightUp Loc: California
 
nwtk2007 wrote:
Visiting with some dem friends. Dr's, teachers, professionals.

It is useless to discuss Trump. They are not hearing. They are not even trying to look at anything objectively.

Hopeless, blind hate. I told them to enjoy their prosperity and if Trump loses, get ready for economic collapse/higher taxes/etc.

Oh no, they said, democrats with improve the current economic situation. They could repeat leftist press tripe word for word. They had zero knowledge of anything other than hater rhetoric.

It soured my stomach. I had a triple tuaca, pushed my plate away, excused myself, wished them well and left them for all time.

Heading to the gym.
Visiting with some dem friends. Dr's, teachers, p... (show quote)

It's a shame when friends part way over politics and I'm seeing this happen a lot these days. I play in a band that four years ago was surrounded by a rather large group of friends who always came to watch us play at the pubs. I moved out of state for a few years, then came back and found a lot of them were gone, including our drummer, our lead singer and most of the "fans". 'Turns out it was politics and the people that left were all anti-Trump.

I still play with the remaining members and sometimes I feel like I should write a book about how to stay friends with Trump-supporters because it's not always easy. As far as they are concerned Trump is a hero and liberals are all haters. I would try to reason with their arguments but that translated in their minds to "Trump-hate", I tried inventive analogies to try and get them to see beyond the box but that translated in their minds to leftist "parroting". After a while I found four things in particular help...

1. seeking common ground.
2. being able to laugh at your own side.
3. brushing off the rants.
4. having a song to play.

When you said your "dem friends" were doctors and teachers, it struck me as being significant because I happen to be the only college-educated professional left in the band. Of the two that left, one is a retired hospital administrator and the other is a scientist at Bell Labs, the remaining musicians are hospital orderlies and a telemarketer. It was a similar divide among the fans... most of the education left with the liberals. Maybe they got tired of their analysis being cast by half-drunk truck drivers as "left-wing garbage". Maybe they got tired of their concern for the future of their children being mindlessly categorized as "Trump-hate".

I'm sorry for what happened with you and your friends bro... but I can't help but wonder what that looked like to the doctors and teachers in your group. I mean... you actually told these professionals to be happy for their prosperity while implying Trump deserves the credit for it?

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Jan 31, 2020 08:36:29   #
Skiladi
 
No one is thinking. Repeating media bites only proves they can read ( maybe).

Reply
Jan 31, 2020 09:06:32   #
straightUp Loc: California
 
Canuckus Deploracus wrote:
Seems like Trump is doing best... So far...

That's an erroneous assumption. Sasputz007 caught some of the error but he's still off...
I'll explain...

The figure listed under Trump is taken from 2019 which is only the second year affected by his budget proposals (the first year under a president is ALWAYS affected by the last budget of the previous president), so you're right in saying "so far" but none of the other figures you are comparing that with are "so far" figures... they are all full-term figures, some of them spanning eight years.

The other thing to keep in mind is that the Treasury still hasn't assessed the 2019 revenue yet because taxes for 2019 aren't due until April of this year. A better comparison would be the last year affected by Obama's budget and the first year affected by Trump's budget... apples and apples.

According to the tables from which Saspatz007 and you are drawing conclusions...

2016 (for reference) = 19,573,444,713,936.79
2017 (last year affected by Obama's budget) = 20,244,900,016,053.51 = 3% increase
2018 (first year affected by Trump's budget) = 22,719,401,753,433.78 = 6% increase

This is why education matters in political debates and why Trump's popularity is so dependent on blocking it out.

Reply
Jan 31, 2020 09:37:31   #
straightUp Loc: California
 
Skiladi wrote:
No one is thinking. Repeating media bites only proves they can read ( maybe).

No, people are thinking... They just aren't supporting Trump. But I do think a lot of people wind up just parroting the media and among them are ALL the Trump supporters, none of which want to believe their opponents are any different.

To be fair, most people have a lot on their plates and don't have the time is takes to "think" their way to sound conclusions and one reason why it takes so long is because the politicians spend so much time obscuring important factors that don't serve their objectives.

Post-Fox media doesn't help because companies are finding better profits in telling people what they want to hear not what they need to hear. (When I say Post-Fox, I am referring to the infamous case Fox News brought to court that resulted in a ruling that still stands today... that news doesn't have to be true.)

So there are parrots on all sides... There are also thinkers on all sides (of the ideological cube) But it gets harder with each blunder Trump makes to suspect there are ANY Trump supporters among the thinkers. I don't think it's a lack of intelligence, I think it's an emotional overdrive that takes over, which is why it's so important for Trump to keep the accusations flying and the emotions boiling.

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