straightUp Loc: California

LOL - I'll start by agreeing with your final point... (indeed, there are many stupid voters... on all sides).

I also agree with your point about the law of averages. I too think that with humans being what they are, we should see more even numbers in the aggregate and this is why I pointed out the difference between the elected politicians and the appointed politicians, because when it comes to the elected politicians, the numbers ARE more even... well, 8 Democrats to 13 Republicans, but parity is lost on the appointed politicians 1 Democrat to 12 Republicans. So as I said, my conclusion there is that the Republican leaders are less excusable that the Republican voters.

I have some theories about the lesser difference between voters based on the idea that political differences often tie into cultural differences. For example, there is a certain "compliance" that is bred into people who come from a congregational culture. These people are effectively trained to believe what they are told by the pastor whom they are told to trust. There is no flexibility in this model. This culture is far more rooted on the right than it is on the left and I think it's effects carries into politics.

That being said. I'll go through your enumerations...

#1 - list is grossly inaccurate: I got the initial list from Wikipedia for reasons I stated earlier and I verified at least six of the names and found no error. I won't say inaccuracy is impossible but I think it's unlikely.

#2 - Republicans are by nature more dishonest than Democrats: This is where I have to ask if you're referring to private citizens or the politicians themselves. I don't think this statement applies to the average voter, but I suspect it does apply to the politicians (with exceptions on both sides of course).

#3 - Democrats being far more devious than Republicans: This time, I'll just assume we're talking about the politicians and yes, the thought HAS crossed my mind. It could be that the Democrats are just better at not getting caught. Of course there's no way to prove that either way.

#4 - voters reactions after convictions not accounted for: Hmm, I'm not really sure how reactions after convictions make any difference as to whether or not a politician is elected then convicted. Are you saying that if Republican voters are disappointed with a convicted politician they can take back their vote so we can take that name off the list?

#5 - Nationally Republicans outnumber Democrats leading to a higher number of disgraced politicians: The basic problem here is that nationally, Democrats outnumber Republicans. There are of course variations among the polls but the average result from all of them indicates Democrats are ahead by a significant margin. This is not a new trend either and it explains why the only presidents in my lifetime that won the EC but lost the popular vote were Republicans. It also explains why almost all of the recent gerrymandering is being done by Republicans. It makes sense... they are fighting the odds BECAUSE there are far more Democrats. Finally, I don't see ANY Republicans pushing to reform or eliminate the EC. That fight is all on the Democratic side which wouldn't make any sense unless they had the numbers.

I don't know about you but a lot of conservatives seem to get confused when they look at an election map and think because most of the surface area is red, it means there are more Republicans. But unless you're counting the cows and the trees as Republicans, this is assessment is erroneous. There are far more American citizens in those little blue blotches than there are in the large swaths of red. So if that's what you're going by, I suggest you find the maps that account for population not just acreage. Look up "cartograms".

Otherwise, I'm not sure why you would think there are more Republicans than Democrats.

I'll go with your #2 - with emphasis on politicians rather than voters and maybe #3 as an unprovable possibility.

4430 Loc: Little Egypt ** Southern Illinory

Now that wasn't so hard now was it ?

permafrost Loc: Minnesota

I hope you provide him with a good ride....

Weewillynobeerspilly Loc: North central Texas

Not that nice....he will ride upon my dashboard in warmer months...besides, he can damn well walk

straightUp Loc: California

4430, why was it so important to you that Barracuda answer that question? I don't see how it has any bearing on Trump's lack of military service or any resulting criticism about it. Barracuda isn't the Commander in Chief - Trump is.

When I turned 18 I registered for the draft just in case it was reinstated and my country needed me. But like Barracuda, I had plans for my life that didn't include the service, so long as it was optional. But I also had a conviction from early on that the U.S. military is being used to suit the needs of the plutocracy, mostly Big Oil and they kill a lot of innocent people for that money. So I take tremendous pride in NOT serving.

Not so sound hateful, but I don't thank the military either. I used to fly in and out of San Diego all the time and I would often have conversations with young Marines on leave. Great kids and I admire their courage and their passion, but I never thanked them because that would be dishonest coming from me. Thank them for what? My freedom? What does that even mean?

I've lived in a number of places outside the U.S. and found that they have as much freedom out there as we do in here. I suppose one could argue that we have more freedom when it comes to buying guns, but that's about it. It doesn't seem like much because you can still own a gun in England as I did, you just can't by military grade, that's all.

And who is the military supposedly defending our freedom from? I can't think of ANY nation that wants to invade the U.S. and take away our freedoms and it's not because the U.S. military is a deterrent, it's because there's no actual reason to do it.

Seriously, there isn't much here that invaders can take that isn't already for sale. The difference is that when countries like China purchase large shares of America they get all the benefits without the liabilities of military occupation.

I'm not saying America is safe from threats, there's plenty of threat out there, but it's mostly coming from within our system which is something the military is useless against. I see conservatives impeding on freedom everytime they tell gay people they can't get married. I see liberals impeding on freedom everytime they tell gun enthusiasts they can't by an AK-47. And you know who I see defending these freedoms? Lawyers. As unpopular as they are in our pop-culture, lawyers and activists are the real champions of our freedom, not the military.

If anything, I think the military should be thanking the citizens for taking care of them. A tremendous amount of tax dollars goes to pay for everything the military does, from the munitions they use to the food they eat. The military has long been a sanctuary for young men who have trouble standing up on their own with great options like a paid college education... Paid by who? Paid by the American tax payers and what do those tax payers get back in return? Imaginary protection from imaginary threats to our freedom? Less funding for things like healthcare?

I hope this doesn't offend you too much. I'm not trying to insult those who served, like I said I have great admiration for those who put themselves in harms way thinking they're fighting for their country. I just don't think they realize how they're being used or how unrelated their efforts really are to American freedom. Most times, I just don't have the heart to break it to them.

4430 Loc: Little Egypt ** Southern Illinory

When I hear someone demand that someone else should serve but didn't I always ask them if they did or didn't !

I kept pushing since it seemed he didn't want to answer like he was ashamed to answer , however he finally did answer I don't understand why it was so hard to do !

A neighbor was in the service and his Dad had a bad heart attack so they got him out of the service for him to come home ans take over managing the farm !

He never lived that down as he came home and families that lived in the community gave him a hard time because many others sons had to stay in the service but he got to come home !

All you Trump haters are on Trumps case because he got turned down and neither do you all nor do I know what the reason was for him getting out if it was true or not !

In your minds he was just like my neighbor he got out so you all are going to shove in in his face every time you can !

Have any of you ever been falsely accused of something you were innocent of well it's not nice to put it mildly !

One never knows when karma might come back your way and you all might feel the blunt of being falsely accused then you might realize how it feels .

4430 Loc: Little Egypt ** Southern Illinory

Haven't you heard gay people can get married ?

straightUp Loc: California

OK - well that sounds reasonable enough... that is if we're talking apples and apples. But Barracuda wasn't talking apples and apples. He was basically an apple talking about an orange (no pun intended). In other words... Yes, a private citizen has every right to criticize the president for his lack of military experience regardless of his own military experience or lack thereof by virtue of the fact that the president is the frickin' Commander in Chief of the entire military.

Does a patient have to go to medical school before he can criticize a doctor for not going to one? Does a homeowner need a contractor's licence before he can say anything about a contractor who doesn't?

Apples and Oranges my friend...


It's possible he just didn't think it was relevant. I mean, I obviously didn't think it was either.


If you remember Obama didn't serve either but he didn't get that same treatment and the reason why is because he wasn't running around telling everyone how we're going to blow them off the map. THAT is the reason why Trump "haters" are so critical of his military experience. It's been my observation that military commanders are much less likely to rattle their sabers than civilian politicians and there's good reason to believe that's because the military commanders are more familiar with the consequences. Trump has already proven himself to be incredibly impulsive and many of us think he also indecisive; several times now he has tweeted warnings of doom and destruction only to dial it back after his advisors finally get him to STFU and listen to them. These are NOT good traits for a commander in chief and I think it's entirely reasonable to suspect his lack of military experience may preclude him from fully appreciating the consequences of what he so often suggests.


Yes, everytime I log into OPP - ;)


No it's not, but some jobs require that you deal with it anyway and the POTUS is one of those jobs. If Trump is so frail that he needs to be defended by his fans against criticism he should't have applied for the job in the first place.


Again... every time I log in... and you know what? It's not a big deal. Trump spends his time in the lap of luxury surrounded by people who worship him, not with the common people who criticize him. So I wouldn't worry too much.

straightUp Loc: California

Not in Montana, not in North or South Dakota, not in Nebraska or Missouri, not in Louisiana, Mississippi, Alabama or Georgia...

In those places conservatives are still interfering with freedom by telling the gay people they can't get married.

4430 Loc: Little Egypt ** Southern Illinory

Sounds like you are parroting the talking points of the liberal media !

Trump saying how he's going to blow places off the map ?

I've never heard him saying anything like that but I would like for you to post some of this talk so I can determine it for myself !

You lefties tend to twist and turn things around quite a bit !

padremike Loc: Phenix City, Al

You said,

"I hope this doesn't offend you too much. I'm not trying to insult those who served, like I said I have great admiration for those who put themselves in harms way thinking they're fighting for their country. I just don't think they realize how they're being used or how unrelated their efforts really are to American freedom. Most times, I just don't have the heart to break it to them."

How arrogant! I retired from the military 41 years ago. When someone thanks me for my service it embarrasses me. It embarrasses me because regardless of the hardships military members and their families endure IT WAS AN HONOR, my honor TO SERVE. I don't
need affirmation. And you don't have the heart to tell us we were used. Where I feel used is because I did not serve so that Progressive philosophy and agenda could force feed the disgusting immorality they believe are Rights and their efforts to use our Constitution against us.

I remember you said, not long ago, that it "rocks" to be you. I wondered at the time what you have done with your life that makes you so special to yourself. If you ever want know the cost of your freedom visit a VA or military hospital.

Weewillynobeerspilly Loc: North central Texas

Well, because in the palces you listed........They are smart enough to know that shit just ain't normal, and because it's pushed down our throats daily so it would become common place......does not make that shit normal by any sane standards.

I said shit twice....no pun intended.

Wewilly is done ranting for the day.

You have a good one straitUp

straightUp Loc: California

LOL - You don't remember him telling North Korea that they will be "met with fire and fury like the world has never seen"? You don't remember him telling Iran that they will suffer consequences the likes of which few throughout history have ever suffered before" ??? These are actual quotes BTW, from Trump himself not the "liberal media". And his repeated assertion that our actions will be more colossal than anything the world has ever seen is pretty serious considering what the world HAS seen.

And these are just two examples that come to mind... I know there's more (as if I need anymore to make the point). I have to get ready to go, so I don't have time to do this right now, but later, I'll find actual videos of him saying these things and share them with you, 'cause I don't know where you were when he said these things but you really missed out - these statements made headlines around the world because what "the world has never seen before", is a leader of a democratic nation making any such threats in the public forum toward anyone. Kim Jong, yeah... Bin Laden, sure... but the President of the United States?

I'm sure you can find some way to excuse him, but I can't. The world is well aware of U.S. military might so it's really not something we need to brag about and doing so shows a very impulsive and juvenile side of the guy you seem to think is qualified to command our military.

Seth

4430 Loc: Little Egypt ** Southern Illinory

Well your examples were after they made threats against us and he was letting them know what to expect if they were foolish to attack us and they weren't lies it was the truth as we would retaliate !

Yes those were actual quotes and he was spot on in letting them know better not even think it !

I guess you would rather he talked to them like Obama would now boys please don't attack us cause we're really really sorry we killed your murderous leader !

I can see how you took that was really bad way to talk to them !

Only way to avoid them attacking is to make it known to them that it will cost them dearly Iran knows all too well when they got bold attacked us a few yrs back and they got the short end of the stick so they know how far they can go !

Obama gave them everything they wanted and they thought Trump would act just like Obama and they learned it the hard way !

SO I'm not making excused for Trump actually Trump was manning up to this two bit jerks and I'm in total agreement with what he said !