Trump Having Secret Conversations With Putin Is A Threat To National Security...PERIOD (Page 10): Yup ya do.

Navigator

straightUp wrote:

I sleep fine... With all the comic antics from Trump and his base of thumbsucking babies I laugh myself to sleep every night.

Yup ya do.

Navigator

straightUp wrote:

I got a better idea. I think I'm going to stay her... (show quote)

Thank, pal!! I sincerely hope some immigrants will go to the country you came from and stay there and do everything in their power to destroy YOUR version of (fill in the blank where you came from).

straightUp Loc: California

Navigator wrote:

You do realize that Howard Zinn's book was total BS?

How would you know?

Navigator wrote:

For thousands of years EVERY culture, every government was ruled by Kings, Sultans, Regents, Monarchs or some other kind of dictator and EVERYONE outside the inner circle was a slave.

That's not entirely true.

Navigator wrote:

The "assholes" you mentioned founded and fought for the first government that intentionally subjugated itself to the will of the people and to imagine their primary motivation for putting at risk their livelihood, their families and their lives was to intentionally not lift some classes of people out of the slavery they were all in is extraordinarily shortsighted.

Wow, you are really brainwashed. I mean you have to be a completely ignorant of the all the parliamentary systems being developed in Europe when America was still a collection of colonies to say what you did. The American republic was certainly a model of inspiration for other colonies dreaming of liberation from their owners but it most of it was itself modeled after preexisting systems in Europe.

And yes, the founders "assholes that they were" fought and almost got their asses kicked if not for the French that came to help. We should really be more thankful to them for that but maybe our patriotic arrogance gets in the way. In any case, they did manage to liberate themselves from the exploitation of the British corporations, but only to continue the exploitation themselves. It was really a case of "meet the new boss, same as the old boss". Except that slaves no longer had any hope of freedom and the Indians no longer had any reason to trust the treaties.

But go ahead and subscribe to the institutional view (ages 5 and up) that you were engineered to believe in and please keep me laughing my ass off.

Seth

straightUp wrote:

I got a better idea. I think I'm going to stay her... (show quote)

The only part of your post I agree with is the part about the folks on the left side of the aisle being mostly responsible for changes that have been positive in nature, such as ending the s**t wage slavery and cutting back on polluted air and waterways -- the U.S. has cleaned up our pollution more than any other country.

However... over the last few years, as the Democratic Party has taken more and more money from the far left, what once were solutions arrived at through negotiations between the Dems and Republicans have thinned as the Democrats became more and more extreme, singing for their supper for George Soros and other far left and globalist campaign donors, and rather than the previous give and take, they adopted an "our way or the highway" approach and began leaning too far left into socialism territory, pushing stealth agendas they knew wouldn't go over with American voters if they were honestly disseminated and fabricating where "necessary." The anthropogenic climate change hoax, for example, which is about taxation, control and globalist economics, being shoved down our throats as are this "pick a gender" B.S., abortion at point of birth and the slander that President Trump and those of us who support him are racists.

Historically, this is how the left turns a country into a cauldron of chaos and a social Tower of Babel with the intention of undermining the rule of law and the people's confidence in their system of government so the left can step in.

Then bye-bye liberty, hello totalitarianism.

You can deny this to your heart's content, either because it's what you want to see, being a self-proclaimed leftist and therefore couldn't care less how many lives and families are destroyed or who or how many get hurt, or you are simply too obtuse to see how one thing inevitably leads to another.

Only you can know that. If it's the former, you are the enemy. If it's the latter, you are just a "useful idiot," a rube, a dupe, a dumbjohn for the left.

straightUp Loc: California

Navigator wrote:

Thank, pal!! I sincerely hope some immigrants will go to the country you came from and stay there and do everything in their power to destroy YOUR version of (fill in the blank where you came from).

LOL - the problem with your wish is that it only works on conservatives since they are the only ones harboring a bigoted version of their country. My version of America and the country where I was born is inclusive, fair and multicultural so immigration really poses no threat to my version of either.

straightUp Loc: California

Seth wrote:

The only part of your post I agree with is the part about the folks on the left side of the aisle being mostly responsible for changes that have been positive in nature, such as ending the s**t wage slavery and cutting back on polluted air and waterways --

Well, at least you can see that.

Seth wrote:

the U.S. has cleaned up our pollution more than any other country.

I'm not sure why you think any other county should be cleaning up "our" pollution. ;)

Seth wrote:

br b However... /b over the last few years, as ... (show quote)

That's a long sentence... but I understand what you are saying... it's basically what I've been hearing for the past 10 years so I've had plenty of time to consider it's implications. I'll start by agreeing that bi-partisan solutions have dwindled over the years, but it's been my observation that the Republicans have moved further toward the right, causing a wider chasm between the aisles. I think this explains phenomenons like RINOs as old-school conservatives are now being called.

There is a corresponding narrative designed to convince people that it's not the right but the left that are radicalizing. George Soros is a primary villain in this narrative, described as being a champion of the left, but in reality most liberals have no connection or interest in Soros. Many of them don't even know or care who he is and personally, the only time I ever hear about him at all is when you folks mention him.

Naturally, when one side moves away from common ground, both sides will adapt partisan agendas. I'm never sure how to explain the socialism thing to people who are so ingrained with anti-socialist propaganda, but say with confidence that it's a much bigger deal on the right (as a form of paranoia) than it is on the left (as a type of solution).

When you describe Democrats as leaning into socialist territory it makes me think you haven't realized how socialist America already is. America is home to the largest (in terms of cash flow) and most successful socialist systems in the world. We did with socialism what the Russians failed to do and the right-wing narrative refuses to give us credit for that.

Most Democrats like myself see socialism as a solution for specific problems NOT as an all-encompassing religion the way the right-wing narrative would have you believe. That is why only a few Democrats go so far as to label themselves socialists. Most Democrats like myself are in favor of a capitalist system where ever possible. I have co-founded three businesses over my working life and consider myself an entrepreneur. I like the fast pace of a capitalist system. But I would not wish a capitalist healthcare system on my worst enemies.

Healthcare, law enforcement, education and defense are NOT profitable. If anyone says different they have a scam in mind. These are the areas that socialism is better at solving for that very reason.

Now there *is* some truth to the increase of young people on the left willing to talk about socialism and I think that's because they come from a generation that wasn't subjected to the same cold-war propaganda that we baby boomers were subjected to. Older Democrats, even the ones that understand and appreciate socialism for what it is wouldn't call it by name for fear of loosing their support because the term itself has become so derogatory. But thankfully, the younger generation has a less subjective view and don't see the reason for avoiding the term.

Seth wrote:

The anthropogenic climate change hoax, for example, which is about taxation, control and globalist economics, being shoved down our throats as are this "pick a gender" B.S., abortion at point of birth and the slander that President Trump and those of us who support him are racists.

Well, you're welcome to your own opinion Seth. But as far as I can tell, climate change is real, and the most likely cause is anthropogenic. I think the idea that it's all a hoax is itself a hoax sponsored by the people with big investments in carbon-based energy. I'm sorry but this is all based on evidence and logic where all I'm hearing from your side is stomping feet and "no, no, no!" Not very convincing.

The pick a gender thing... yeah, I really don't see the problem there. Personally, I'm fine with the gender I was born with but I'm not going to get all hung up if someone else wants to pick a different gender. I mean seriously, how does that hurt anyone? It just seems to me that people have a stick up their ass about it and they just need to get over it.

Seth wrote:

Historically, this is how the left turns a country into a cauldron of chaos and a social Tower of Babel with the intention of undermining the rule of law and the people's confidence in their system of government so the left can step in.

Then bye-bye liberty, hello totalitarianism.

Again, the same thing I've heard for decades now and it's always been baseless. What amazes me is how the narrative gets so close to what the right is doing while still insisting that the left is doing it. For instance, undermining our faith in our government... it wasn't the left that started the false dilemma between a republic and a democracy, nor was it the left that continues to scream about their government being too big and it certainly wasn't the left that started asking for non-politician politicians. If anyone is undermining the people's confidence in their system of government it's the right not the left.

And history really doesn't support your thesis on totalitarian take-overs either. I noticed you didn't bring it up as a loss of democracy, so I'm just going to put this out there now... totalitarianism and democracy are diametric opposites, just as republics and monarchies are diametric opposites. So you can have a democratic republic such as ours or a democratic monarchy, such as England but you can't have democratic totalitarianism. You can have a totalitarian republic such as China or a totalitarian monarchy such as Saudi Arabia but you can't have a totalitarian democracy. This is why I call the right-wing suggestion that we can't be a democracy if we are supposed to be a republic, a false-dilemma. A false dilemma designed to undermine the people's confidence in their democracy, the only thing that stands in the way of totalitarianism.

Historically, at least within the last century, the loss of democracy to totalitarianism has always been at the hands of right-wing movements, in the case of Germany and Italy they were fascist movements. In the case of Russia there was actually two revolutions in the same year, 1917. The first was the left-wing revolution inspired by communism that overthrew the czar and replaced it with a provisional government while founders sought to establish a liberal republic. The second one, often referred to as the October Revolution, was the right-wing revolution that overthrew the provisional government and established the Soviets under totalitarian control of the Bolsheviks

This is often misrepresented in American institutional history because of the perceived threat that democratic socialists pose to our capitalist empires. The academic association between democratic socialists and communist implies that the Russian Revolution is relative... the intentional failure to educate us on the significance of a double revolution, implies the Russian Revolution is a single connection between the dreams of the democratic socialists and the example of the Russian loss of democracy. It's awesome rhetoric, really it is.

Seth wrote:

You can deny this to your heart's content, either because it's what you want to see, being a self-proclaimed leftist and therefore couldn't care less how many lives and families are destroyed or who or how many get hurt,

That's a baseless accusation... being leftist means caring less about families? BTW, how are those families that Trump is tearing apart doing? I'll assume you're not actually expecting people to take you seriously. Your prejudice is exceeding your senses bro. Just saying.

Seth wrote:

...or you are simply too obtuse to see how one thing inevitably leads to another.

Being obtuse could explain a lot about your argument too bro... It's no less possible that I am understanding the causes and effects better than you think. Maybe better than you are. Have you even considered the significance of Russia's double revolution?

Seth wrote:

Only you can know that. If it's the former, you are the enemy. If it's the latter, you are just a "useful idiot," a rube, a dupe, a dumbjohn for the left.

Another false-dilemma - lol... The answer is neither.

I care about people just as much as any conservative, if there is a difference between us it's that I care about ALL people not just my own people and though I can be obtuse at times just like everyone else, that does not make me a useful idiot.

So, are we done judging me?

eagleye13 Loc: Fl

straightUp wrote:

Another false-dilemma - lol... The answer is neither.

I care about people just as much as any conservative, if there is a difference between us it's that I care about ALL people not just my own people and though I can be obtuse at times just like everyone else, that does not make me a useful idiot.

So, are we done judging me?

"So, are we done judging me?" - straightUp

Should we be? lololol

Seth

straightUp wrote:

Another false-dilemma - lol... The answer is neither.

I care about people just as much as any conservative, if there is a difference between us it's that I care about ALL people not just my own people and though I can be obtuse at times just like everyone else, that does not make me a useful idiot.

So, are we done judging me?

First, on the pollution clean-up, you know what I meant.

As for your socialism reference, law enforcement, etc are not socialism, they are covered by taxes we are forced to pay as a matter of course -- government, whether local or federal, has a duty to at least half-assed protect the public. That's just their constituents getting some sort of value for property and income taxes. In red states, they are doing a much better job of this than in blue ones, wherein are found cities like Detroit, Chicago, Baltimore, Los Angeles and others where the politicians are as dangerous to the populace as muggers and gang bangers, as parasitical to the taxpayers as pickpockets.

Not necessarily their fault, it just goes, along with lying, projecting and undermining the rule of law, with being a leftist.

And no, it's not the Republicans who don't want to work with the Democrats', it's the other way around. In fact, when the Dems snagged the majorities in both the House and Senate in 2006, Pelosi famously declared, "We have the majority now, we don't have to listen to you anymore!" Look it up, Google is your friend (especially if you're a leftie).

RINOs are not "old guard" conservatives, they are essentially left leaning politicians who misrepresent their politics by running as and "serving" as Republicans while supporting Democrat agendas. Typically, they vote with the Democrats on issues where their votes are needed by Republicans.

The left shows little respect for the freedom of speech of anyone who disagrees with them. You don't see conservative groups shouting down "liberal" guest speakers at universities, for example, rioting or starting fires, with the blessings of left wing faculties. You don't see conservatives actively boycotting businesses because they are owned by Democrats, Republicans kicking Democrats out of restaurants, harrassing them in the streets or in their homes because if their politics or marauding around in masks, beating up old folks in the name of "anti-fascism."

I do not judge others, they judge themselves by the dogmas they follow and their respective versions of "the truth" as they relate them. 😎

eagleye13 Loc: Fl

Seth wrote:

First, on the pollution clean-up, you know what I meant.

As for your socialism reference, law enforcement, etc are not socialism, they are covered by taxes we are forced to pay as a matter of course -- government, whether local or federal, has a duty to at least half-assed protect the public. That's just their constituents getting some sort of value for property and income taxes. In red states, they are doing a much better job of this than in blue ones, wherein are found cities like Detroit, Chicago, Baltimore, Los Angeles and others where the politicians are as dangerous to the populace as muggers and gang bangers, as parasitical to the taxpayers as pickpockets.

Not necessarily their fault, it just goes, along with lying, projecting and undermining the rule of law, with being a leftist.

And no, it's not the Republicans who don't want to work with the Democrats', it's the other way around. In fact, when the Dems snagged the majorities in both the House and Senate in 2006, Pelosi famously declared, "We have the majority now, we don't have to listen to you anymore!" Look it up, Google is your friend (especially if you're a leftie).

RINOs are not "old guard" conservatives, they are essentially left leaning politicians who misrepresent their politics by running as and "serving" as Republicans while supporting Democrat agendas. Typically, they vote with the Democrats on issues where their votes are needed by Republicans.

The left shows little respect for the freedom of speech of anyone who disagrees with them. You don't see conservative groups shouting down "liberal" guest speakers at universities, for example, rioting or starting fires, with the blessings of left wing faculties. You don't see conservatives actively boycotting businesses because they are owned by Democrats, Republicans kicking Democrats out of restaurants, harrassing them in the streets or in their homes because if their politics or marauding around in masks, beating up old folks in the name of "anti-fascism."

I do not judge others, they judge themselves by the dogmas they follow and their respective versions of "the truth" as they relate them. 😎

First, on the pollution clean-up, you know what I ... (show quote)

"The left shows little respect for the freedom of speech of anyone who disagrees with them. You don't see conservative groups shouting down "liberal" guest speakers at universities, for example, rioting or starting fires, with the blessings of left wing faculties. You don't see conservatives actively boycotting businesses because they are owned by Democrats, Republicans kicking Democrats out of restaurants, harrassing them in the streets or in their homes because if their politics or marauding around in masks, beating up old folks in the name of "anti-fascism."

I do not judge others, they judge themselves by the dogmas they follow and their respective versions of "the truth" as they relate them."

YEP!!!

It all there for Americans to witness on the Boob Tube.

JediKnight

Seth wrote:

I followed the Kavanaugh fiasco and kept up on the... (show quote)

You must have missed the fact that Hillary was only one of NINE cabinet members that were required to approve the sale of 20% of our uranium to Russia. Since the other EIGHT agreed to the sale, why do you republicans keep trying to insist the blame should be Hillary's? Naw...don't think I'll be hiring you for any investigative work - you suck. No thanks!

nwtk2007 Loc: Texas

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/giuliani-accuses-ukraine-of-laundering-3m-to-hunter-biden-asks-how-obama-could-let-that-happen

There's some new poop about to hit the fan for both Biden and Obama.

nwtk2007 Loc: Texas

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UXA--dj2-CY

JediKnight

nwtk2007 wrote:

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/giuliani-accuses-ukraine-of-laundering-3m-to-hunter-biden-asks-how-obama-could-let-that-happen

There's some new poop about to hit the fan for both Biden and Obama.

It will not obscure that Trump begged Ukraine 8 times in one phone call to illegally investigate Biden. How can you support such a low-life weasel?

nwtk2007 Loc: Texas

[quote=JediKnight]It will not obscure that Trump begged Ukraine 8 times in one phone call to illegally investigate Biden. How can you support such a low-life weasel?[/quot

Trump begged Ukraine 8 times???

Show us where you heard this. Even if true, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UXA--dj2-CY

JediKnight

[quote=nwtk2007][quote=JediKnight]It will not obscure that Trump begged Ukraine 8 times in one phone call to illegally investigate Biden. How can you support such a low-life weasel?[/quot

Trump begged Ukraine 8 times???

Show us where you heard this. Even if true, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UXA--dj2-CY[/quote]

Trump Told Ukraine to Investigate Biden Eight Times in One ...

https://www.vanityfair.com › news › 2019/09 › trump-biden-ukraine-eight...

AS you wish!

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