rumitoid

Well put.

JoyV

His message did not change significantly from before WWII till the end. He only became more ruthless.

Hitler joined the German Socialist Workers' Party in 1919. The name changed to German Worker's Party, and then in 1920 under Hitler, it changed to National Socialist German Worker's Party.

Hitler wrote he wanted to abolish unearned income - "no rent slaves"
He called for nationalisation of industry. (In other words, take it from private to public.)
He called for divison of profits. (Today the phrase is redistribution.)

At the Beer Hall Putsch Hitler's speech included, "…We demand that the state be charged first with providing the opportunity for a livelihood and way of life for the citizens…"


"…The activity of individuals is not to counteract the interests of the universality

[the state], but must have its result within the framework of the whole for the benefit of all..." [italics mine]

"…We demand the Breaking of debt (interest)-slavery…"

"…In consideration of the monstrous sacrifice in property and blood that each war demands of the people, personal enrichment through a war must be designated as a crime against the people. Therefore, we demand the total confiscation of all war profits…"

"…We demand the

nationalisation of all (previous) associated industries..." [italics mine]

"…We demand a division of profits of all heavy industries…"

"…We demand an expansion on a large scale of old age welfare…"

"…We demand the creation of a healthy middle class and its conservation…"

"…We demand the immediate communalization of the great warehouses and their being leased at low cost to small firms, the utmost consideration of all small firms in contracts with the State, county or municipality…"

"…We demand struggle without consideration against those whose activity is injurious to the general interest. Common national criminals, usurers,

profiteers and so forth are to be punished with death…" [italics mine]

"…We demand substitution of a German common law in place of the [existing] Roman Law serving a materialistic world-order…"

"…The state is to be responsible for a fundamental reconstruction of our whole national education program, to enable every capable and industrious German to obtain higher education…"

"…The comprehension of the concept of the state must be striven for by the school as early as the beginning of understanding…"

"…We demand the education at the expense of the state of outstanding intellectually gifted children of poor parents without consideration of position or profession…"

"…The state is to care for the national health by protecting the mother and child, by outlawing child-labor, by the encouragement of physical fitness, by means of the legal establishment of a gymnastic and sport obligation, by the utmost support of all organizations concerned with the physical instruction of the young…"

"…We demand legal opposition to known lies and their promulgation through the press… Publications which are counter to the general good are to be forbidden… We demand legal prosecution of artistic and literary forms which exert a destructive influence on our national life and the closure of organizations opposing the above made demands…"

"…a lasting recovery of our nation can only succeed from within on the framework: "THE GOOD OF THE COMMUNITY BEFORE THE GOOD OF THE INDIVIDUAL." [All CAPS theirs in the original document]

"…For the execution of all of this we demand the formation of a strong central power… Unlimited authority of the central parliament over the whole Reich and its organizations in general…"

"…The leaders of the Party promise, if necessary by sacrificing their own lives, to support by the execution of the points set forth above without consideration…"

"'National' and 'social' are two identical conceptions. At the founding of this Movement we formed the decision that we would give expression to this idea of ours of the identity of the two conceptions: despite all warnings, on the basis of what we had come to believe, on the basis of the sincerity of our will, we christened it 'National Socialist.'

We said to ourselves that to be 'national' means above everything to act with a boundless and all-embracing love for the people and, if necessary, even to die for it. And similarly to be 'social' means so to build up the State and the community of the people that every individual acts in the interest of the community of the people and must be to such an extent convinced of the goodness, of the honorable straightforwardness of this community of the people as to be ready to die for it." Apr 12, 1922

"Socialism is an ancient Aryan, Germanic institution. Our German ancestors held certain lands in common. They cultivated the idea of the common weal." Interview of Adolf Hitler by George Sylvester Viereck in 1923.

"We might have called ourselves the Liberal Party. We chose to call ourselves the National Socialists. We are not internationalists. Our socialism is national. We demand the fulfilment of the just claims of the productive classes by the state on the basis of race solidarity. To us state and race are one." Interview of Adolf Hitler by George Sylvester Viereck in 1923.

"I have learned a great deal from Marxism as I do not hesitate to admit". In a private communication with Hermann Rauschning, a Danzig Nazi 1923. [In fact Hitler achieved Karl Marx' ideal of total centralized-control over the means of production … business owners and manufacturers had ownership of their property and factories in name only once the Waffen-SS and stormtroopers were fully in power. He also took Marx' antisemitism to new heights.]

"German communists thought politics meant talking and writing. They were mere pamphleteers, whereas I have put into practice what these peddlers and pen pushers have timidly begun"..."the whole of National Socialism" is based on Marx. Written in the Bavarian prison, in 1924.

"Thus a people must organize its constitution and its political life in such a way, that the greatest emphasis is placed upon the value of leadership. Leadership must not be destroyed by an artificial structure; that is, by the system of parliamentary democracy which cultivates little dwarfs—democracy which represents the conspiracy of dwarfs against him who towers head and shoulders above the masses." Nov 29, 1929

"A Socialist is one who serves the common good without giving up his individuality or personality or the product of his personal efficiency. ... Our adopted term "Socialist" has nothing to do with Marxist Socialism." Sep 28, 1930

"There is no such thing as socialism which does not have the power of the spirit at its disposal; no such thing as social good fortune which is not protected by - and even finds its prerequisite in - the power of a nation. And there is no such thing as a nation - and thus no such thing as nationalism - if the army of millions who work with their intellects are not joined by the army of millions who work with their fists, the army of millions of peasants. As long as Nationalism and Socialism march as separate ideas, they will be defeated by the united forces of their opponents. On that day when both ideas are molten into one, they will become invincible!" July 15, 1932

"The three factors which dominate our revolution do not contradict the interests of the rest of the world in any way.
First: preventing the impending Communist subversion and constructing a Volksstaat (people's state) uniting the various interests of the classes and ranks. Second: solving the most pressing social problems by leading the army of millions of our pitiful unemployed back to production. Third: restoring a stable and authoritarian leadership of the State" ... "The lone individual is short-lived; the Volk is lasting. While the liberal world outlook, by according the individual a god-like status, must of necessity lead to the " Oct 12, 1933

"One can easily state, so far as the mere understanding of the statement goes, that the highest form of Nationalism finds its expression only in an unconditional devotion of the individual to the people. It will never be denied that the purest form of socialism means the conscious elevation of the claims of the people, its life and its interests above the interests and the life of the individual." Aug 17, 1934

"All the great cultural achievements in the history of mankind have been the product of those forces which spring from the feeling of communion in the social group, so that such works may be said to originate in the community itself." Sep 11, 1935

"The main plank in the National Socialist program is to abolish the liberalistic concept of the individual and the Marxist concept of humanity and to substitute therefor the folk community." Jan 30, 1937

"Today, our entire German system of education - including the press, theater, film, and literature - is run and organized exclusively by German Volksgenossen." Jan 30, 1937

"Up to now it has been customary for everyone in Germany to build how and where he liked. This caused the disharmony in the overall design of German cities. Do you think a Ludwigstrasse would ever have been constructed had it been up to the citizens and other institutions of Munich? Great architectural solutions can only come about through a central plan, and this is the way it will be once again today." May 22, 1938

"Liberty? Insofar as the interests of the Volksgemeinschaft permit the exercise of liberty by the individual, he shall be granted this liberty. The liberty of the individual ends where it starts to harm the interests of the collective. In this case the liberty of the Volk takes precedence over the liberty of the individual.

Above the liberty of the individual, however, there stands the liberty of our Volk. The liberty of the Reich takes precedence over both." Speech of May 1, 1939.

"I wish to put before you a few basic facts: The first is that in the capitalistic democratic world the most important principle of economy is that the people exist for trade and industry, and that these in turn exist for capital. We have reversed this principle by making capital exist for trade and industry, and trade and industry exist for the people. In other words, the people come first. Everything else is but a means to this end." Dec 10, 1940

"... we chose a course which lay between two extremes. In the first place, we had fallen into one extreme, the liberal and individualistic, which made the individual the center, not only of speculation, but of action. On the other side stood the theory of humanitarianism as a universal doctrine. Between these two extremes lay our ideal, a national community in body and in spirit, designed and founded by providence into the midst of which man is set to achieve the purpose of his life." Jan 30, 1941

"All those who weaken will be crushed and left to decay. In the same manner as once the coward bourgeois compromise parties had been first driven into a corner by the bolshevist wave and then swept away, all those bourgeois states will disappear today whose stupid representatives think that they can conclude a treaty with the devil, cherishing the hope that they will be more cunning than he is satanic." Feb 24, 1945 NAZI 25 year anniversary.

"Just as we formerly overcame the narrow-minded party particularism and knocked down the bolshevist opponent in order to create a National Socialist people's state, we shall today win a victory over the medley of bourgeois democratic state conceptions and we will crown this victory by the annihilation of bolshevism." [So Hitler was against both bolshevists, who he considered Jews or controlled by Jews; and Bourgeoisie(capitalists)] Feb 24, 1945 NAZI 25 year anniversary.

"It is our firm will never to cease working for the true people's community, far from any ideology of classes." Feb 24, 1945 NAZI 25 year anniversary.
************************************************

I can continue for pages. But I've taken a sampling from as early as 1919 until 1945. He was a socialist and a nationalist in 1919, and still a socialist and a nationalist in 1945.

And here is an article that addresses NAZI socialism. https://mises.org/library/why-nazism-was-socialism-and-why-socialism-totalitarian

JoyV

And here is an interesting speech given at an Impeach Trump Rally. It was made of Hitler quotes with details altered as to USA instead of Germany and as to who the words came from. The Antifa ate it up with much applause. Here is a full transcript of the Speech:

Ladies, Gentleman, and non-binary members of this congregation:
I would like to thank everyone for coming out today to support the constitutional rule of law, I stand here today, a veteran of these United States armed forces, and a proud 21st century patriot. I would like to take this opportunity to talk about this oppressive regime, and the repressive regime that constitutes capitalism as a whole.
We are Socialists, we are enemies of the capitalistic economic system for the exploitation of the economically weak, with it’s unfair salaries, rights it’s unseemly evaluation of a human being according to wealth and property instead of responsibility and performance and we are all determined to destroy this system under all conditions.
Benefit to the community precedes benefit to the individual… The state should retain supervision and each property owner should consider himself appointed by the state. It is his duty not to use his property against the interests of others among his own people. This is the crucial matter. This American Nation will always retain its right to control the owners of property… A policy of laissez faire in this sphere is not only cruelty to the individual guiltless victims but also to the nation as a whole.
For there is one thing we must never forget… the majority can never replace the man.
Life is like a mirror, if you frown at it, it frowns back, if you smile it returns the greeting.
Donald Trump seems to think that if you tell a big enough lie, and tell it frequently enough, that it will be believed. It’s not the truth that matters, but victory.
The doom of a nation can be averted only by a storm of flowing passion, but only those who are passionate themselves can arouse passion in others. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qNMAp8kXWrc

JoyV

I don't disagree with you on how abuse can affect people. I thought my analogy pretty simple and straightforward. If you consider nationalist to be a red flag for fascist (which by the way was a label only assigned to the NAZIs well after WWII. Neither the NAZIs, Americans, Brits, or French ever called them fascists at the time.) simply because there were fascists who were nationalists; but democracies, monarchies, communists nations, and republics were also nationalists--then why not consider that since children who are abused by their parents almost always love their parents; then a child's claim to loving their parent would be a red flag for indicating they are being abused. The one makes just as much sense as the other.

There are many similar analogies we can make. Do mass shooters usually eat breakfast? If so, should we suspect all breakfast eaters of becoming mass shooters? How about one more pertinent to our discussion. Hitler loved dogs. So should we suspect dog lovers of being megalomaniacs?

Obviously in each case the two issues are separate. One is neither the cause of the other nor a characteristic of the other. They just happen to both be present at the same time.

JoyV

And which is exactly what Bernie Sanders and AOC advocate. And what many college students say they prefer over a democracy. They are taught very little history, and what they are taught is often geared toward making them hate their own country and belittle our constitution. They are taught NO civics. So yes, it COULD happen here.

Yes, there was DEFINITELY obstruction of justice by Comey and Lynch. But I don't suppose that is what you mean. Name an instance where Trump obstructed justice. Exactly what did he DO which was obstruction of justice?

So long as we (the majority of Americans) keep holding to our constitution--it can't happen here! But let the constitution be discarded, dismissed as obsolete, or be allowed to be over ruled by the UN; then we the people are vulnerable to totalitarianism.

By the way, there is no such thing as pure socialism nor if you believe Marx, ever could be. His idea was that socialism was the tool to bring down capitalism. And after, a new form of society would need to be chosen. In other words, he meant it to be a transitional stage and of course a revolution. This seems to be overlooked by those youngsters who call for our country to become socialist.

lindajoy Loc: right here with you....

I suspect socialism is glorified for not only those in that 30 year time period you reference but certainly the upcoming generations.. Our schools do not even teach the real history of our nation..Civics has been replaced... The PC version in fact blames America for everything it has done or not done.. That sense of pride in our Nation is eroding and but for parents teaching their children we should be damned concerned..

Venezula is the latest to fall because of its greedy socialistic regime of leaders.. So many other to learn from, yet those promoting socialism do not see or no, do not want to see what truly transpires .. Its that old adage, “give an inch, “ they will take a country!!

Stay strong, stay safe, smile just to smile and the world smiles with you..

lindajoy Loc: right here with you....

Your Welcome slatt and Thank You as well..

I agree that 10% you speak of and the debating that goes on is also like negative is what everyone attracts to rather than the good in our world..We’ll readily give it all our muster never complimenting the good of things.. I guess its human nature but like everything else we do have the ability to change it..

If we weren’t all patriots of our country we wouldn't be attracted to coming in here and sharing our opinion wanting to know what others believe.. Simply put we do care..
We just get consumed in having to be “ right” all the time or “win “ the debate.. When motivated by such the debate turns to anger/hate and shuts down the openness of considering others opinion and is then lost..

We’re pig head patriotic citizens that will defend our country period.. There’s your patriotism..

JoyV

I was wrong. It wasn't half of Americans but half of Trump supporters. So only one fourth of Americans. And I AND you were wrong in what Hillary said. Or at least not all of what she said, "you could put half of Trump’s supporters into what I call the basket of deplorables. Right? The racist, sexist, homophobic, xenophobic, Islamaphobic — you name it. And unfortunately there are people like that. And he has lifted them up. He has given voice to their websites that used to only have 11,000 people — now how 11 million. He tweets and retweets their offensive hateful mean-spirited rhetoric. Now, some of those folks — they are irredeemable" (Of course no one has quoted Trump tweeting or retweeting such rhetoric.)

Also, your Trump quote is wrong. His exact words were, "Our Radical Democrat opponents are driven by hatred, prejudice, and rage. They want to destroy you and they want to destroy our country, as we know it. " Does that sound like he is referring to the Democratic populous?

What Trump said about fake news and a witch hunt was absolutely correct. Again and again NYT, WaPo, CNN, and MSNBC have been caught reporting fake news. At least NYT and CNN have on more than one occasion admitted they were wrong. And as for the illegal witch hunt, that has been proven to be the case as the FISA warrants were confirmed to have been given due to the FISC being given falsified information. It was these warrants which gave the impetus for the investigation.

Here are more of his quotes from the rally to get a feel for who he was referring to:
He said, "We stared down the unholy alliance of lobbyists and donors and special interests, who made a living, bleeding our country dry."
He said, " We broke down the doors of Washington backrooms, where deals were cut to close our companies, give away your jobs, shut down our factories, and surrender your sovereignty and your very way of life, and we've ended it. We took on a political machine that tried to take away your voice and your vote."
He said, "They tried to take away your dignity and your destiny,"
He said, "Many times I said, "We would drain the swamp.", and that's exactly what we're doing right now, we're draining the swamp. And that's why the swamp is fighting back so viciously and violently."
He said, "The only collusion was committed by the Democrats, the fake news media and their operatives and the people who funded the phony dossier, crooked Hillary Clinton and the DNC. It was all an illegal attempt to overturn the results of the election spy on our campaign, which is what they did and subvert our democracy."
He said, "Remember, the insurance policy, just in case Hillary Clinton lost. Remember the insurance policy? They appointed 18 very angry Democrats to try to take down our incredible movement. After two years, 1.4 million pages of documents, 500 search warrants, 500 witnesses, 2,800 subpoenas, and 40 FBI agents working round the clock."
He said, "These are the same career politicians who presided over decades of flat wages, the loss of our manufacturing jobs. ...60,000 shuttered factories."
He said, "Our political opponents looked down with hatred on our values and with utter disdain for the people whose lives they want to run."

--These quotes from his Orlando rally strongly imply he meant the Democratic leadership, not the Democratic population.
https://factba.se/transcript/donald-trump-speech-maga-rally-reelection-orlando-june-18-2019
[As an aside, this site broke down each paragraph and rated it as positive or negative. When
they say it is negative when he says, "We're not going to lose, right? We're not going to lose.
Are you ready? First, we do make America Great Again, then we do Keep America Great. Let
me hear it. Ready? Make America Great Again. Not bad. I would have said that three years
ago, wouldn't be a contest, right? You're ready? Keep America Great. Wow, I'm sorry MAGA
country, but that wasn't too close." They are not only stretching but are disingenuous.]

Nor has Trump made any attack or disparaging names for Hillary supporters, nor even on the media in general. Only on those media outlets spreading fake news and the Democratic leadership..

And don't you think that if multiple news outlets, and among them the largest and most respected, spread fake news; that you can never trust what you are told is truth or lies. This is not just frustrating, and adds to the divisiveness; but can lead to chaos if there is a crisis which the populous should be quickly informed of to take precautions or other actions. This is frequently the case with hurricanes or tornadoes; but might be the case if there is a concerted attack by a foreign power. This is at least one reason why knowingly reporting fake news has garnered Trump's label of "enemy of the people"!!!!!

Morgan

No, not at all.

Morgan

I wasn't a Hillary fan but how she was being addressed by the right, who can blame her, and what she said was mild in comparison to Trump.

Morgan

I wasn't wrong, you must not have had the identical quote.
my quote.
“You know, to just be grossly generalistic, you could put half of Trump’s supporters into what I call the basket of deplorables. Right?” Clinton said. “The racist, sexist, homophobic, xenophobic, Islamaphobic—you name it. And unfortunately there are people like that. And he has lifted them up.” end quote

Your correction: "you could put half of Trump’s supporters into what I call the basket of deplorables. Right? The racist, sexist, homophobic, xenophobic, Islamaphobic — you name it. And unfortunately there are people like that. And he has lifted them up.

As you can see I wasn't wrong at all. I posted what was necessary to prove my point of what she said. On Trump I was also not wrong, here is his quote from that day

"A vote for any Democrat in 2020 is a vote for the rise of radical socialism and the destruction of the American dream,” he said. Trump made only passing mention of any of the Democrats running to replace him even as he tossed out “radical” and “unhinged” to describe the rival party.

This rant he has done many times already with slight variations when speaking to his audience, it this one he curbed slightly with the word dream,". That's down right inspitational from our president don't you think? I'm sure advised by his strategist as per his repercussions from passed speeches I'm sure.

Try stop being so anal on all these quotes it's ridiculous and petty. You can go to the editorial if you like who quoted him.https://www.apnews.com/947182a691e6498ca4488e9fc8f9e4b5

The Critical Critic Loc: Turtle Island

But totalitarianism has been historically the end result wherever socialism has been tried, it’s the natural course. Unless you can name a country with a population of more than say, 10 million, where it has been successful, and didn’t lead to totalitarianism? I don’t believe you could.


I believe the alt-left, believes in having the government take care of them from cradle to grave.


It’s not inaccurately interpreted, but it is a mistake on their part. Sanders for example, tried socialist healthcare in his own state, result? Epic failure. Because that’s what socialism in all it’s forms throughout history has proven to be. Ever wonder why the combined genius of the Framers didn’t conclude that socialism would be the way for our country? Because they had two thousand years of government history from which to draw, and socialism had been a huge failure. Our Framers wanted a form of government that could be sustained and prosper under population growth no matter how large the number, socialism could never do that.


I’d wish you luck with your endeavor, but, that would be disingenuous of me. I think the “propaganda” from the right is mostly aimed at the progressive caucus of the Democratic Party and it’s completely justified if you pay attention to their rhetoric, namely AOC, Talib, Sanders, even most democrats campaigning for 2020.


Have you ever considered how offensive it is to the millions of those who lost their family members in that war fighting the spread of socialism to see that today 51% of people aged between 18 and 34 favoring socialism in this country? Talk about a kick in the teeth!

My most recent recollection would be Obama. Remember what he said about those that “cling to their guns and bibles”?

Damn right! Socialism doesn’t allow for people to get ahead, it only allows for everyone to be equal in their misery.

True. And how many countries/governments have collapsed utilizing capitalism compared to those utilizing socialism? I think JoyV has full comprehension of the subject.

Why? Because of your words. Maybe romanticize isn’t the right word, but you ultimately fail to see the slippery slope of socialism. And I’m so tired of that meme about emergency services, police, fire, public schools etc; none of those are the production or means provided solely by government, they’re local issues. And as far as the military, no matter the form of government or economic system, most of not all countries have a military, it has nothing to do with this discussion.

In this country, the taxpayers, without them, government couldn’t afford either the wagon or the horse...

True.... just look at Venezuela.

Morgan

This type of reply, is very hard to reply to. I'll have to do it with amendments

1.) But totalitarianism has been historically the end result wherever socialism has been tried, it’s the natural course. Unless you can name a country with a population of more than say, 10 million, where it has been successful, and didn’t lead to totalitarianism? I don’t believe you could.

This is where you have it backward's, allow me to explain, socialism becomes the end result forced by an authoritarian government, who establishes this type of economic control on its people in order to keep control. It is a natural course under a controlling dictatorship or other supreme authority.

2.)I believe the alt-left, believes in having the government take care of them from cradle to grave.

That is your opinion and welcome to it, I don't happen to agree. Where there is always a minority who try to exploit the system to benefit themselves. The alt-left, as you say, tries to endeavor to help starving, suppressed, handicapped people for all good intentions and not in contrary to the belief from the right's mantra to keep people enslaved. Instead of accusations, why don't we work together to fix the system where it is broken.

The Critical Critic Loc: Turtle Island

If a leader campaigned on it, or introduced it after the fact, matters not, the end result is the same. But you didn’t address or attempt to answer my question...



Wow! Ok, you’re entitled to yours as well I guess...


Why? Easy, just look at how you ended your comment above. I don’t think we could ever come to an agreement as to how we fix what we think is broken. Heck, you may consider something broken that I don’t, and vice versa.

A nice gesture, but thanks anyway.

Morgan

3.)It’s not inaccurately interpreted, but it is a mistake on their part. Sanders for example, tried socialist healthcare in his own state, result? Epic failure. Because that’s what socialism in all it’s forms throughout history has proven to be. Ever wonder why the combined genius of the Framers didn’t conclude that socialism would be the way for our country? Because they had two thousand years of government history from which to draw, and socialism had been a huge failure. Our Framers wanted a form of government that could be sustained and prosper under population growth no matter how large the number, socialism could never do that.

~A socialistic philosophic idea didn't really arrive until around 1789 with the French Revolution, though some ideas might have begun to emerge a little earlier, not enough in the mainstream for our founders to consider realistically. Probably due to the fact the people would not support the idea, we are a country that embraces the free market,and always will, unless our government changes by force.

There is a difference between Democratic socialism and social democracy. Social democracy is where democratic socialists are committed to systemic transformation of the economy from capitalism to socialism using governmental means, which is what is feared here, whereas social democrats are opposed to ultimately ending capitalism, and are instead supportive of working within it.