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Jun 20, 2019 06:32:17   #
Morgan
 
JoyV wrote:
Yes he manipulated German's Nationalism. There is no doubt of that in my mind. But it wasn't Nationalism which led to death camps, conquest of other countries, or violation of treaties and alliances. These are NOT examples of Nationalism. He USED the peoples Nationalism. The actions he committed were not done out of Nationalism.

You write as if Fascism were NOT socialism. It is one type of socialism, no matter how much revisionist history the left has committed. There are several types of socialism. There is Communism which is one extreme form of socialism. At the other extreme is the mild form of socialism--Democracy. There is Democratic Socialists, Social Democrats, National Socialists, and others. Nationalsozialistische Deutsche Arbeiterpartei, translated is, National Socialist German Workers' Party; better known as NAZI. Includes the words "National" and "German", which indicates Nationalism; and "Socialist" and "Workers", which indicates Socialism. If you read Hitler quotes from before and during his reign, he clearly states again and again that he and the party are socialist. Many use the fact that there was enmity between the National Socialists, and the Communists; to indicate the NAZIs were opposed to socialism. Not true. Each type of socialist felt theirs to be the right kind of socialism. I hope I don't offend anyone with this comparison, but think of the antagonism and historical violence between different branches of Christian religion. That they are opposed to each other does not mean one is of a Christian religion and the other is not.

Name when and how Trump pits different American groups against each other.

Did he call half of Americans deplorable? Did he attend a memorial service for cops who died protecting Americans and use the podium to speak of police racism and police brutality? He said, “Police officers use oppressive and abusive” tactics of a “broken and racially biased system” On other occasions he said cops use racial profiling. He said, "You know, when Trayvon Martin was first shot, I said that this could have been my son. Another way of saying that is Trayvon Martin could have been me 35 years ago.... The African American community is looking at this issue through a set of experiences and a history that doesn't go away." This statement not only stoke fear and hatred between blacks and cops, but between blacks and whites. When Michael Brown was shot, he reinforced the medias characterization of an unarmed black man gunned down by cops, despite the video clearly showing Brown in the act of pulling one officer's gun out of the holster in the struggle, and the 2nd officer not waiting to see if he would turn the cop's gun on the 1st officer but instead shooting Michael Brown.

Obama accused pro-lifers as waging a war on women. He said anyone opposed to same sex marriage was a bigot. During the 2008 campaign, he called anyone who supported Hillary a racist. Later he called anyone in favor of immigration enforcement racists. He said Republicans are the enemy of Hispanics. Here is a quote from a speech where he denigrated midwesterners. “And it’s not surprising then they get bitter,they cling to guns or religion or antipathy toward people who aren’t like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations.”

When the Antifa and BAMN thugs "protested" by setting fire to private property, smashing windows, and assaulting people, Obama said there actions heartened him.

But I don't want to pick on Obama as holding the bag on divisiveness. So here are some Hillary gems. Clinton said, "We’re going to put a lot of coal miners and coal companies out of business." She called blacks super-predators. She called Republicans uneducated and characterized Republican women as doormats in so many words. Saying they do whatever their husbands, sons, or fathers tell them to. This was the only reason she would believe that Republican women didn't vote for her. When defending a rapist of a child, she said, "Children in early adolescence tend to exaggerate or romanticize sexual experiences and that adolescents with disorganized families, such as the complainant, are even more prone to such behavior." She encouraged divisiveness between the right and left by stating that the accusation that her husband had an affair with an aide, a vast right wing conspiracy.

So what has Trump done?
Yes he manipulated German's Nationalism. There is... (show quote)


your quote: If you read Hitler quotes from before and during his reign, he clearly states again and again that he and the party are socialist. Many use the fact that there was enmity between the National Socialists, and the Communists; to indicate the NAZIs were opposed to socialism. Not true. Each type of socialist felt theirs to be the right kind of socialism. I hope I don't offend anyone with this comparison, but think of the antagonism and historical violence between different branches of Christian religion. That they are opposed to each other does not mean one is of a Christian religion and the other is not.

In your comment here what you're not aware of is the change Hitler went through from the beginning of his reign to the end. Yes, he went onto the nationalist socialist party platform to get elected, ee resurrected a dying party. look up the history. He then went along with Mussolini joining the Fascist movement against socialism and democracy. This is when Nazi's were against socialism, under hitlers rule. So yes they were later opposed to fascism.

At this time yes there are different forms of socialism, with different levels of usage as with nationalists, from reasonable to the extreme. Which is why people should not throw out these words lackadaisically in efforts to offend.

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Jun 20, 2019 06:42:15   #
Morgan
 
JoyV wrote:
So if Nationalism is a red flag, what about the allied forces Nationalism? You are trying to link two unrelated isms, because they are sometimes found in the same place and time. If you were to look at children abused by their parents, most would say they love their parents. So is loving your parents a red flag for abuse?


Really, what kind of analogy is that? Really poor and unreasonable. Why do you think abuse is so long term damaging to a person. A parent who loves and abuses, grows a tree from a twisted root and most likely grows a crooked tree. Rare is the person who can grow up healthy from that, not impossible but very special. Those people do have a love-hate relationship and many after the child has grown have discord and for good reason. Not a healthy loving relationship.

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Jun 20, 2019 07:03:02   #
PeterS
 
rumitoid wrote:
Maybe not all....

The remainder would be excommunicated by the conservative whole. Conservatism is an ideology that purifies itself by expunging any that don't think exactly like the majority whole...ie, RINO, etc for anyone who thinks or behaves any different than conservatives at large...

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Jun 20, 2019 07:11:19   #
Morgan
 
JoyV wrote:
But it is not JUST an economic system. Capitalism is just an economic system. Our country is a Republic, not a Capitalist. But our economy is capitalist. What does having your government dictating nearly every aspect of your life to do with economy. Under the NAZIs and the USSR, you couldn't marry outside of the imposed restrictions. You couldn't teach, write, sing, act, or speak about ideas not approved. If you were disabled or considered mentally deficient, the state dictated you be sterilized or worse. These are NOT part of an economic system. And yes, a socialist state ALSO controls the economic system.

Germany did not go from a representative form of government to a socialist form overnight. As more and more people became dissatisfied with their lives, they blamed their leaders and scapegoats. More and more turned to various socialist groups. One was Marxist Communism and one was NAZI (before Hitler joined). The country went through transitional stages from representative democracy to socialism. And yes, they voted for socialism before they lost the power to vote under the government they chose.
But it is not JUST an economic system. Capitalism... (show quote)


You're hard to follow here as you contradict yourself..."But it is not JUST an economic system.

Capitalism is just an economic system. ???What?


Our country is a Republic, not a Capitalist... Right

But our economy is capitalist...right, capitalistic.

What does having your government dictating nearly every aspect of your life to do with economy."

It does if they are controlling all the revenue, done by a dictatorship, rather than yourself(the people) as in a free market.

"Under the NAZIs and the USSR, you couldn't marry outside of the imposed restrictions. You couldn't teach, write, sing, act, or speak about ideas not approved. If you were disabled or considered mentally deficient, the state dictated you be sterilized or worse. These are NOT part of an economic system."

Correct, that is why it is NOT the fault of socialism, it is due to the control of the dictatorship, holding the reins and controlling the horses pulling the economic wagon. Therefore no, a socialist state does NOT control the economic system, It is the government pulling the strings to force this kind total socialism, not a CHOICE by the people...Forced.

Our democratic republic, wrapped in the free market of capitalism, would never go for a totalitarian socialist government, NEVER, nothing to fear there. The ONLY way that would EVER happen is if we lost our democratic Republic and fell into an authoritarian control such as in a dictatorship/oligarch or plutocrat government.

Which is exactly what has happened in Venezuela and Russia. We have seen democratic governments fall to an overthrow of authoritarian rule, it happens first by being voted in.

Now take a look at what has been happening here with the obstruction of justice.

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Jun 20, 2019 07:28:27   #
Morgan
 
JoyV wrote:
I am surprised you would say people confuse socialism with its chains to dictatorship. Yes I, and I'm sure most conservatives see socialism's chains to dictatorship. But I didn't expect you to admit it.


Why wouldn't I admit that? That's how it's been, under dictatorships, they want the control of the money.

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Jun 20, 2019 09:50:27   #
lindajoy Loc: right here with you....
 
tactful wrote:
that's exactly what was meant Lin .. great analysis.
as per anything gov related the gears are fundamentally fudged. good anology where funds go and went?
who knows these days.


I figured it was just wanted to clarify..
Did you see Mr. Stewart blister to Congress?? They past the bill the next day too!!

He surely showed how shabby the whole lot of them are especially those who didn’t bother showing up.

One for the people!!!

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Jun 20, 2019 17:26:25   #
Morgan
 
JoyV wrote:
You wrote, "I don't defend or support Socialism in its totalitarianism form..." If it were only an economic system, how could it have a totalitarian form? Totalitarianism is a political system not an economic system. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Totalitarianism

You wrote, "While the left may not like Trump I have not heard them disparage all people on the right as the enemy of the state, as our own president has done to the people on the left." Did you forget the deplorable label for conservatives? And when did Trump call the people on the left the enemy of the state? Not to mention, conservatives, constitutionalist, and any other Trump supporter or Trump, would not use the phrase "the state" to refer to out country. Now Trump did call reporters and media who engaged in false stories, the enemy of the people.
You wrote, "I don't defend or support Sociali... (show quote)


I do recall and she didn't say conservatives or Republican, not even the right, here is what she said

“You know, to just be grossly generalistic, you could put half of Trump’s supporters into what I call the basket of deplorables. Right?” Clinton said. “The racist, sexist, homophobic, xenophobic, Islamaphobic—you name it. And unfortunately there are people like that. And he has lifted them up.” end quote

This is what Trumps most recent comment was:

ORLANDO, Fla. (AP) — President Donald Trump jabbed at the press and poked the political establishment he ran against in 2016 as he kicked off his reelection campaign with a grievance-filled rally focused more on settling scores than laying out his agenda for a possible second term.

Addressing a crowd of thousands at Orlando’s Amway Center on Tuesday night, Trump complained he was “under assault from the very first day” of his presidency by a “fake news media” and an “illegal witch hunt” that had tried to keep him and his supporters down.

He painted a disturbing picture of what life would look like if he loses in 2020, accusing his critics of “un-American conduct” and saying Democrats “want to destroy you and they want to destroy our country as we know it.” he's said other similar comments, as in, " Democrats are the destruction of our country"

Very nice to other Americans and yes Patriots, not socialists, communists, Marxist, etc, I believe you get the picture.

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Jun 20, 2019 17:57:42   #
Carol Kelly
 
PeterS wrote:
Simple, someone who placed the country above their own needs. That leaves out every conservative in this nation...


That is ridiculous.

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Jun 20, 2019 17:59:32   #
Carol Kelly
 
Morgan wrote:
I do recall and she didn't say conservatives or Republican, not even the right, here is what she said

“You know, to just be grossly generalistic, you could put half of Trump’s supporters into what I call the basket of deplorables. Right?” Clinton said. “The racist, sexist, homophobic, xenophobic, Islamaphobic—you name it. And unfortunately there are people like that. And he has lifted them up.” end quote

This is what Trumps most recent comment was:

ORLANDO, Fla. (AP) — President Donald Trump jabbed at the press and poked the political establishment he ran against in 2016 as he kicked off his reelection campaign with a grievance-filled rally focused more on settling scores than laying out his agenda for a possible second term.

Addressing a crowd of thousands at Orlando’s Amway Center on Tuesday night, Trump complained he was “under assault from the very first day” of his presidency by a “fake news media” and an “illegal witch hunt” that had tried to keep him and his supporters down.

He painted a disturbing picture of what life would look like if he loses in 2020, accusing his critics of “un-American conduct” and saying Democrats “want to destroy you and they want to destroy our country as we know it.” he's said other similar comments, as in, " Democrats are the destruction of our country"

Very nice to other Americans and yes Patriots, not socialists, communists, Marxist, etc, I believe you get the picture.
I do recall and she didn't say conservatives or Re... (show quote)


The rally was about much, much more than that. You weren’t paying attention.

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Jun 20, 2019 18:00:31   #
Carol Kelly
 
Morgan wrote:
Why wouldn't I admit that? That's how it's been, under dictatorships, they want the control of the money.


You don’t think Bernie would establish a dictatorship?

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Jun 20, 2019 18:13:19   #
Larry the Legend Loc: Not hiding in Milton
 
Carol Kelly wrote:
You don’t think Bernie would establish a dictatorship?

All socialists are despots. Show me a socialist country that freely allows its subjects to leave without permission. Show me one that allows non-conforming or even competing ideas to flourish without hindrance. Show me one that doesn't dictate what will be produced or or what service performed, when, by who and for what remuneration. Oh, and also what price will be paid to government for said product or service.

Socialism will never darken America's shores, because the American people are capable of acting in defense of themselves and their way of life. Ask the people of Venezuela if they would give up their arms so meekly knowing what they know now and see how loud the (understandable) answer is, then consider the 'common sense gun control' debate in the US political sphere.

"From my cold dead hands!"

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Jun 20, 2019 18:28:14   #
son of witless
 
Larry the Legend wrote:
All socialists are despots. Show me a socialist country that freely allows its subjects to leave without permission. Show me one that allows non-conforming or even competing ideas to flourish without hindrance. Show me one that doesn't dictate what will be produced or or what service performed, when, by who and for what remuneration. Oh, and also what price will be paid to government for said product or service.

Socialism will never darken America's shores, because the American people are capable of acting in defense of themselves and their way of life. Ask the people of Venezuela if they would give up their arms so meekly knowing what they know now and see how loud the (understandable) answer is, then consider the 'common sense gun control' debate in the US political sphere.

"From my cold dead hands!"
All socialists are despots. Show me a socialist c... (show quote)


Socialism has always failed. The people who believe in it have never lived under it. They are mostly souls who have failed to compete well in the free enterprise system. They cannot pick themselves up after failure, which is required under Capitalism. Most seem to either work in government or education, where they can hide their mediocrity.

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Jun 20, 2019 18:49:43   #
Larry the Legend Loc: Not hiding in Milton
 
son of witless wrote:
Socialism has always failed. The people who believe in it have never lived under it.

And they fail to pay attention to those who have been unfortunate enough to see it first hand and were fortunate enough to have escaped for a better life elsewhere. Where are the Venezuelans in Caracas speaking out about the utter failure they experience every day? They dare not, because they, and their entire family, will be no more.

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Jun 20, 2019 19:03:38   #
son of witless
 
Larry the Legend wrote:
And they fail to pay attention to those who have been unfortunate enough to see it first hand and were fortunate enough to have escaped for a better life elsewhere. Where are the Venezuelans in Caracas speaking out about the utter failure they experience every day? They dare not, because they, and their entire family, will be no more.


I go on some left wing websites. Some are run by true Marxists and they blame the US for all of Venezuela's problems. They are totally blinded by hatred for Capitalism. They only talk to themselves. They cannot abide opposing viewpoints. Socialists love echo chambers.

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Jun 20, 2019 19:23:25   #
Larry the Legend Loc: Not hiding in Milton
 
son of witless wrote:
Socialists love echo chambers.

That's all they have. No rational person will listen to their snake oil.

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