The Critical Critic Loc: Turtle Island

Morgan, I’m just curious, why do you rush to defend attacks against socialism?

Morgan

Quote: This is far more than economics!

Yes, a Dictatorship is far more than economics. It strips the spirit of its people under its suppression.

Morgan

I don't rush, but for most... socialism is misunderstood and being confused with its chains to a dictatorship, and now people fear it, Socialism is not to be fear, the tyrannical rule is, this needs clarification for most, that's all.

JoyV

I watched Obama respond to a reporters question on what he felt or thought (can't remember which word was used) about the BAMN protest which had just taken place the day before. Obama said, "It heartens me."

I provided a list which was far from complete. I am asking you to do the same. If the total list is far too long, surely you can provide as many as I have. Or how about at least 3?

Morgan

No, I'm not going there with you, on some kind of useless tit for tat, and your recollection is a poor validation. Let's just stick with the topic.

JoyV

Yes NAZI Germany was governed by socialism. The means of production and distribution was under the control of a central government. In a socialist government there is no privately controlled property. Under the NAZIs there was no privately controlled property. In a socialist government production is controlled by the state. Under the NAZIs production was controlled by the state. In a socialist country distribution is controlled by the state. Under the NAZIs distribution was controlled by the state. So what characteristic of socialism was NOT a characteristic of Naziism?

Show me a country run strictly by democracy? Strictly by anarchy? Strictly by Tribalism,
Despotism, Feudalism, Colonialism? These are all systems of government but none are 100% run by that system. The United States is a Republic but includes socialist programs. Our economic system is capitalism, but the government is not capitalist in any way! The same cannot be said of socialism. There ARE socialist governments but no capitalist governments. Socialist governments include the governments of Laos People’s Democratic Republic, the People’s Republic of China, the Republic of Cuba, and the Socialist Republic of Vietnam. This number has dropped dramatically in recent years. Former countries under the Marxist-Leninist idea of socialism included Afghanistan, Albania, Angola, Belarus, Benin, Bulgaria, Cambodia, Congo, Czechoslovakia, Ethiopia, East Germany, Hungary, North Korea, Mongolia, Mozambique, Poland, Romania, Somalia, Russia, Ukraine, North Vietnam, South Yemen and Yugoslavia. And no, none are PURELY socialist.

Yet though there are capitalist countries, I do not believe there is such a thing as a capitalist government.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_forms_of_government

mosteen12

Since leftist are communist, traitor is a fitting word. So, it will be Patriots vs Traitors!!

The Critical Critic Loc: Turtle Island

Ok. I almost deleted the word, rush, but chose to stay with it because it was, in part, having to do with our very first interaction, and since then I noticed you taking part in most topics with the word socialism in the title. I also noticed that you didn’t object to my use of the word, defend...

You seem to have this almost romanticized view of socialism, like if socialism was done “correctly”, it would be rainbows, unicorns, and ice cream for everybody. Your claim is that socialism is just misunderstood by some, however, if it was fully understood, it would be recognized universally, as the disease that it is, responsible for the deaths of tens, if not hundreds of millions of people.

I’m on the flip side of the coin, and will happily, and eagerly, denounce socialism any and every opportunity I get. (But you know this about me already, lol.)

Thank you for taking the time to answer my question, Morgan.

Larry the Legend Loc: Not hiding in Milton

Ah. Yeah. Many of us had the same problem so I understand, and you are forgiven for not wanting to soil your good name by such an association.

Morgan

Ok, us being the Patriots.

Morgan

I don't defend or support Socialism in its totalitarianism form in a system of government that is centralized and dictatorial and requires complete subservience to the state. And anyone who believes the left believes in that is completely out of touch with reality. People throw this word around in complete ignorance of what it truly means and this goes to anyone who accuses the left as such. Which includes people who like Sanders and AOC who claim to be Democratic socialist, which I believe may be a mistake as it seems to be inaccurately interpreted.

What I endeavor to do is have people simply understand where the power is coming from and how it is used. The propaganda from the right is selling to their party that the left is the enemy because they "are socialist", that is the farthest thing from the truth, not to mention very offensive, especially when we consider how most all Americans view Socialism since WWII.

While the left may not like Trump I have not heard them disparage all people on the right as the enemy of the state, as our own president has done to the people on the left. What president would do that to its own citizens?

Every hard working person in America tries to get ahead, that is not socialism, that is free market Capitalism. Capitalism is not a form of Government, neither is Socialism. They are constructed within a governmental system. This is something JoyV cannot seem to comprehend.

Where you get that I romanticize socialism leaves me wondering why? I am completely for what we have, a free market with some social programs and amenities as our public school, emergency service, the fire dept, Dept of health, DOT and of course the military and police to name a few.

Here's one way to think of it, in a horse and wagon, it is the horse that pulls the wagon, the government being the horse, pulling the wagon ~their chosen economic system, now the big question is... who's driving the horses? Who has the reins in their hands, who's steering them? It's different for every country.

tactful Loc: just North of the District of LMAO

that's exactly what was meant Lin .. great analysis.
as per anything gov related the gears are fundamentally fudged. good anology where funds go and went?
who knows these days.

JoyV

But it is not JUST an economic system. Capitalism is just an economic system. Our country is a Republic, not a Capitalist. But our economy is capitalist. What does having your government dictating nearly every aspect of your life to do with economy. Under the NAZIs and the USSR, you couldn't marry outside of the imposed restrictions. You couldn't teach, write, sing, act, or speak about ideas not approved. If you were disabled or considered mentally deficient, the state dictated you be sterilized or worse. These are NOT part of an economic system. And yes, a socialist state ALSO controls the economic system.

Germany did not go from a representative form of government to a socialist form overnight. As more and more people became dissatisfied with their lives, they blamed their leaders and scapegoats. More and more turned to various socialist groups. One was Marxist Communism and one was NAZI (before Hitler joined). The country went through transitional stages from representative democracy to socialism. And yes, they voted for socialism before they lost the power to vote under the government they chose.

JoyV

I am surprised you would say people confuse socialism with its chains to dictatorship. Yes I, and I'm sure most conservatives see socialism's chains to dictatorship. But I didn't expect you to admit it.

JoyV

You wrote, "I don't defend or support Socialism in its totalitarianism form..." If it were only an economic system, how could it have a totalitarian form? Totalitarianism is a political system not an economic system. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Totalitarianism

You wrote, "While the left may not like Trump I have not heard them disparage all people on the right as the enemy of the state, as our own president has done to the people on the left." Did you forget the deplorable label for conservatives? And when did Trump call the people on the left the enemy of the state? Not to mention, conservatives, constitutionalist, and any other Trump supporter or Trump, would not use the phrase "the state" to refer to out country. Now Trump did call reporters and media who engaged in false stories, the enemy of the people.