Morgan

Good job with each one of them

Morgan

There is no doubt Trump has his loyalists/supporters, the latter of your comment is your opinion and your welcome to it. As we stand now because Trump has done nothing to ensure the integrity of our voting system or campaigning it's hard to believe it will be a fair one, the corruption of it worked in his favor and he is obviously counting on it again in 2020, what a just man, sure go vote for "him" again.

lindajoy Loc: right here with you....

Patriotism is generally defined as love for one’s country....

Loyalty and patriotism means something defined by the person with understanding to each persons views of such..Or should..

Commitment to a set of ideas best summed up in the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution of the United States which basically promotes a sense of an undefined and perhaps indefinable American oath of freedom, equality, justice.. A commitment to honor and in fact protect.. A choice...An allegiance ...

An oath to support the Constitution does not even convey a particular political or economic theory and is a matter of personal conviction to the Constitution, Bill of Rights etc..You can’t define it in a set standard as it is the person's choice in their understanding of what a patriot is...

Ban the word?? Do you recall the history of the Revolutionary War where Self defined Patriots disagreed with the self defined loyalists.. What is a Loyalist?? Patriots wanted a free Independent America, Loyalist were “loyal” to the British..

What is a Patriot??i It is as the person defines it and in their choice of personal oath or commitment to the well being of our nation..

We, regardless of party, that defend our nation's values and freedom are patriots..

lindajoy Loc: right here with you....

You present your opinion without even knowing why people chose Trump..

You say because we are loyal to him that makes us loyalist.. We in fact chose Trump to insure the betterment of our Nation.. We are loyal to it and made a choice of the one we felt would defend our nation...That simple... A patriot in other words..

Just as you are a patriot because of what you believe we are for what we believe..Or do you not believe you are a patriot in your own right??

Larry the Legend Loc: Not hiding in Milton

Good questions. Is it indeed 'my country right or wrong'? A patriot will stand on principle and speak up when others are wrong on a given issue, regardless of the 'numbers'. It's the principle that counts. Many confuse patriotism with statism, and it's not difficult to understand why. While patriots stand on principle, statists stand on policy. Policy and principle can be easily confused if the source is not considered. Statist doctrine emanates from political leaders, patriotic doctrine is learned through moral education; and yes, religion plays a large part in that education. Knowing the difference between right and wrong is crucial in arriving at a patriotic position, just as having a clear understanding of a given political agenda is central to statist decision making. In essence, a statist will drag you into war, drooling at the thought of profit. A patriot will question a declaration of war, making sure that the premise is just and all other approaches have been considered first.

On to the next good question: 'Is it to attack those who find our government's policies to lack justice?' That is a classic statist approach. Government is right, regardless of the rights or wrongs accompanying the process and anyone who says otherwise is a traitor and should be hanged. A patriotic approach is first to consider the rights and wrongs of a given policy and support or oppose as conscience dictates, regardless of the political considerations. Essentially, a patriot understands that what is good for government is not necessarily good for country, they are separate entities.

And finally, 'Are protesters against such policies enemies of the state?' That's a tough one. Some protesters might be statists who support a different political ideology and as such support 'the state' but oppose the specific policy. Others will oppose the state as an entity and continually point out the deficiencies and injustices meted out by the state regardless of who is in power. Those are true 'enemies of the state', or, in a word, patriots. In short, 'government' is 'the state' and patriotism does not recognize politics as a legitimate cause, but understands that it is a 'necessary evil' while governments exist in the world.

Statists support governments, patriots support morally sound ideals.

The Critical Critic Loc: Turtle Island

Absolutely outstanding!

I was eagerly anticipating your response and you didn’t disappoint. Thank you, Larry.

The Critical Critic Loc: Turtle Island

Once again in agreement. And perhaps you’re right, more accountability could be a useful tool. Maybe even stricter standards set by the owners of whatever company said journalists work for, I don’t know, but agree that issue desperately needs to be addressed.

Larry the Legend Loc: Not hiding in Milton

Pleased to be of service...

lindajoy Loc: right here with you....

Amen and well written..👍👍⭐️🇺🇸

Especially like: A patriotic approach is first to consider the rights and wrongs of a given policy and support or oppose as conscience dictates, regardless of the political considerations. Essentially, a patriot understands that what is good for government is not necessarily good for country, they are separate entities.

Your closing is so very true~~

Liberty, as I see it..”Being free within society from oppressive restrictions imposed by authority on one’s way of life, behavior or political views.”

Ricktloml

We might also remember that any Russian interference in the 2016 election happened under the Obama administration, who was aware since 2014 Russia was making these efforts and did NOTHING, no wait Obama DID do something, he weaponized our intelligence and law enforcement agencies, along with his operatives and appointees, Hillary, the DNC and their collaborators in the media to try to frame President Trump with this false narrative. And the Democrat/socialists, the left in general and the lap-dog media want to smear and question the patriotism of President Trump AND his supporters. Most Americans consider cheating on a massive scale by undercutting the foundations of our Constitution and electoral process like Obama, Hillary and the Democrat/socialist Party did in 2016 is NOT patriotic

Larry the Legend Loc: Not hiding in Milton

Thank Ron Paul for that. I joined the R<3volution in 2007 and immersed myself into everything from Mises through Rothbard and even the Good Doctor himself. That opened my eyes and made a patriot of me as opposed to a government statist as I was before, having known no better. Ron Paul stood up and spoke as an individual, fearlessly and without a filter. That was very profound to me and I wanted him to win so very badly. Ah, the good old days...

Rose42

Excellent.

Larry the Legend Loc: Not hiding in Milton

Aw.

The Critical Critic Loc: Turtle Island

What a coincidence! I got into Mises and Rothbard about a year and a half ago, more Mises at first. I just finished Murray Rothbard’s Philosophy of Freedom.
By David Gordon. I couldn’t put it down, great stuff!

JoyV

[quote=Ricktloml][quote=JoyV]Ideals, principals and values need not be based on one's nation. In fact most ideals and principals are not exclusive to any particular nation. But what do ideals and principals, no matter how laudable, have to do with patriotism -- not to mention, those can change.

As for patriotism being bad because others from other nations who may be enemies or act in despicable ways might be patriotic to their own countries; so what? That would be like saying since Hitler was a vegetarian, all vegetarianism is evil. When Americans say they are patriotic, it goes without saying that they mean they are patriotic to America, not Iran!

If you want to ban American patriotism you either want a one world order, eliminating Americans as an identifiable group; or you want to surrender American to another country making Americans subservient to others, enslaving Americans. And if you want a one world order, you can bet there will be those who consider themselves to be the elite who will be the masters of everyone else.

Being loyal to any one president is not what it means to be an American patriot, no matter how good a job that president is doing. An American Patriot is loyal first to the Constitution of the United States. BECAUSE they are loyal to our constitution, they are loyal to our elected President no matter who holds that office (so long as that president keeps his oath to defend and protect the Constitution of the United States!)[/quote

Well said JoyV. Much has been made of the divisiveness surrounding today's politics, and how a house divided cannot stand, and the affixing of blame. But it is and has been the left and their collaborative media that has been dividing this nation for decades. Quite frankly conservatism and at least still a few in the Republican Party are a bigger threat to the left's "fundamental transformation" of this country. The left has no intention of working together with the "loyal opposition". Because as they have stated, and their policies reflect there is very little common ground to be had with groups who hate the country enough to change it "fundamentally". The left has more allegiance to our enemies and since they lost the last elections are willing to do ANYTHING, no matter the harm to the country to punish the citizens who attempted to curb their power. President Trump's policies have resulted in extremely low unemployment rates, a booming economy, and an attempt to institute border security, which the leftist Democrat/socialist Party, (and the sell-out RINOs have blocked repeatedly,) all while being framed by the previous administration in the worst corruption and abuse of power scandal in American history. And those on the left have the nerve to question President Trump, OR his supporters' patriotism.[/quote]

I agree!