JoyV

Good point!

acknowledgeurma

The only legal entities with what might be personal responsibility for slavery in the United States of America that still exist are the Federal government and the several states that allowed slavery. These are the only "living" persons who might be liable for reparations. Not you, so don't worry yourself.

Larry the Legend Loc: Not hiding in Milton

I'm a little confused. Can you help me with this? You say that the Federal and State governments might be liable for reparations because they are the only 'living' persons that allowed slavery. Can you please point one out? Can you give me a name or some other indication of who exactly you are referring to?

I'm asking because the civil war officially ended on August 20, 1866, and I'm using that date as the official end of slavery in the US, regardless of whether it was State or Federal laws keeping it going. Now, considering the time between then and now, and adding 21 years to account for adulthood, a person in government would have to be at least 172 years old to be held accountable for an action (or lack thereof) that took place in 1866.

As far as I know, and I might be slightly off here, but it it is my understanding that nobody has ever lived even close to that long in the history of the world. Living 100 years is a newsworthy exception, so someone living to the ripe (and I do mean ripe) old age of 172 would be at least a scientific curiosity.

acknowledgeurma

Shirley, you've heard of Citizens United v. FEC?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legal_person

A legal person (in legal contexts often simply person, less ambiguously legal entity)[1][2] is any human or non-human entity, in other words, any human being, firm, or government agency that is recognized as having privileges and obligations, such as having the ability to enter into contracts, to sue, and to be sued.

Larry the Legend Loc: Not hiding in Milton

That's all very well, but governments do not have independent incomes or personal property that can be purloined for the purposes of reparations. The only way any government can pay out is by taking funds in from those subject to its diktats. In other words, you and me, not some slave owner from 150+ years ago. You can banter 'legalese' all you like, but those are the facts, and I'm not paying for something I had no hand in. Period.

Oh, and don't call me Shirley.

acknowledgeurma

Surely you know that governments can own property (land, buildings, patents, etc.) and can derive income from them (rents, royalties, grazing fees (that some people don't seem to think they should pay), etc.). And as for taxes, that money is neither yours nor mine in the same way rents or mortgage payments are not ours.

Since January 1, 1835 is the only time the United States has been debt free, I'm fairly certain some of the money we pay in taxes goes for things we had no hand in.

JoyV

But it still boils down to all the taxpayers footing the bill if the government were to pay reparations.

eagleye13 Loc: Fl

You are speaking of current longevity, for the past couple thousand years. In the old testament, several lived to over 900 years.

acknowledgeurma

Taxpayers only foot the bill for their own personal obligations to their governments. It is those governments responsibility to foot the bill for any bills they acquire.

acknowledgeurma

Methuselah lived 900 years.
Methuselah lived 900 years.
But who calls that livin',
When no gal will give in,
To no guy what's 900 years.

Mikeyavelli

Showboat!

proud republican Loc: RED CALIFORNIA

Larry the Legend Loc: Not hiding in Milton

Sorry, but that dog won't hunt. You may be correct in certain parts of the world, but not here in the Good Old USA. Government claims control of vast tracts of land, this is true, but that land does not 'belong' to government, because government has no right or title to anything tangible. Same for patents. Actually, there's a nice little challenge, find a patent owned by and awarded to government. Any government, anywhere.


Sorry, but government collects neither rents, royalties nor grazing fees. Government collects taxes, that government sets arbitrarily, and the people are forced to pay at the point of a gun, if necessary. In reality, there are literally hundreds of taxes paid by all of us, every day. We just don't see it. Would you like an incomplete list? It's incomplete because it's impossible to find them all in the millions of pages of laws and statutes preserved in the Congressional archives.


How so? Are you saying that you didn't earn that money that was taken from you by force? Rents and mortgages are agreed to by mutual assent. They're contracts signed by both parties that have rights and obligations attached to them. Taxes are a one-way flow of assets from the productive to the non-productive among us.


I'm very certain that all of the money you pony up to the IRS goes to pay the interest on the national debt to the Federal Reserve System. That's right, your 'hard earned tax payment' goes to support and encourage a system that not only charges you for the privilege of holding money, but systematically undermines the value of that money through currency inflation.

Did you ever stop to wonder why it is that a dollar today will buy the same things as three cents would buy in 1912? It ain't 'natural', let's put it that way.

acknowledgeurma

Me or the play?

It's from Porgy and Bess (It Ain't Necessarily So).

acknowledgeurma

See US Constitution, Article IV, Section 3, Clause 2:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Article_Four_of_the_United_States_Constitution#Clause_2:_Property_Clause

The Congress shall have Power to dispose of and make all needful Rules and Regulations respecting the Territory or other Property belonging to the United States; and nothing in this Constitution shall be so construed as to Prejudice any Claims of the United States, or of any particular State.

Regarding US owned patents:
https://www.uspto.gov/web/offices/ac/ido/oeip/taf/govt/govt_toc.htm