Transphobia, we have to stop it! (Page 4): I can understand how this is so completely foreign to you that it may call into question many basic concepts that you feel are imutable. But...

PaulPisces Loc: San Francisco

Rose42 wrote:

Its not a matter of what I approve of. I've heard many tales from many people. Emotions don't change truth. Wants don't change truth. These days people are encouraged to give in to their wants hence the proliferation of the gender confusion. There are two genders, and one can't change from a male to female and vice versa. Don't confuse knowing truth with not being sympathetic to people's struggles.

I can understand how this is so completely foreign to you that it may call into question many basic concepts that you feel are imutable.

But it seems to me that you have decided on your own, with no research, with no attempt to understand, and from a limited exposure to the issue at hand, what is true and what is not. Some might call that stance arrogant, but I am trying to be kinder.

At various moments in human history it has been taken as undeniable fact that the Earth was flat and that the Sun revolved around our little blue sphere. Of course with deeper understanding we now find those ideas laughable.

I am assuming from what you have said that you have never interacted with a transgender individual (that you know of, that is). You might consider exploring a bit to see if your strongly held "truth" holds up. If your exploration leaves your idea unchanged, then at least you have put it to the test.

debeda

PaulPisces wrote:

I can understand how this is so completely foreig... (show quote)

rumitoid

Rose42 wrote:

Its not a matter of what I approve of. I've heard many tales from many people. Emotions don't change truth. Wants don't change truth. These days people are encouraged to give in to their wants hence the proliferation of the gender confusion. There are two genders, and one can't change from a male to female and vice versa. Don't confuse knowing truth with not being sympathetic to people's struggles.

Sorry, there are not two genders. That has been proven true over many studies and years. Two biologically identifiable sexes, but not genders.

Larry the Legend Loc: Not hiding in Milton

rumitoid wrote:

Gender and sex are not interchangeable words, that is where the problem lies.

Are you sure about that?

Hmm. Let's look up 'Sex':

Sex
Noun
The property or quality by which organisms are classified as female or male on the basis of their reproductive organs and functions.

Well, that makes sense. Now 'Gender':

Gender
Noun
Either the male or female division of a species, especially as differentiated by social and cultural roles and behavior.

Wow! It's almost as if one follows another! Like you can't be a given gender without having a certain set of reproductive organs, yet you say they're interchangeable. Interesting...

How does that work, exactly? Surgery? Pills? Hypodermic intervention? Psychology? All of the above?

rumitoid

no propaganda please wrote:

Go to Walt Heyer's "Sex Change Regret" s... (show quote)

All that has really nothing at all to do with the fact that gender is on a spectrum. These sites actually tell the story of how society has with its prejudice damaged so many individuals by their beliefs.

rumitoid

Larry the Legend wrote:

Are you sure about that? br br Hmm. Let's look u... (show quote)

Was that from a recent science book on the topic or a coloring book by Westboro Church?

PaulPisces Loc: San Francisco

Canuckus Deploracus wrote:

I agree with the majority of what you said... But ... (show quote)

You misunderstand the concept here, my friend.
Biological sex is determined by physical traits. While this almost always points to a binary choice of male or female, there are in fact babies born with indeterminate sex. That is biology.

But gender identity is something else alltogether, and much less black and white. It is about how we experience ourselves. For some, the disconnect of identity from biology is so powerful that it manifests as being transsexual.

Some cultures revere this condition, others find it incomprehensible and even repulsive.

I am not particularly religious, and I do not consider the Bible to be the uncontested word of a divine being, as you do. So we are unlikely to find common ground on how we know what God does or does not approve of.

But I do recognize that creation is an amazing and mysterious thing. The idea that transsexuals might be the purposeful work of a higher being might be aborrhant to some, but I find the possibility exhillerating, and it makes me want to know more.

Larry the Legend Loc: Not hiding in Milton

rumitoid wrote:

Was that from a recent science book on the topic or a coloring book by Westboro Church?

Actually, they are dictionary definitions, but thanks for asking. So tell me, where do you get your 'definitions' from?

rumitoid

PaulPisces wrote:

You misunderstand the concept here, my friend. br... (show quote)

Excellent comments. Very wise.

rumitoid

Larry the Legend wrote:

Actually, they are dictionary definitions, but thanks for asking. So tell me, where do you get your 'definitions' from?

From those who study gender and sex in neuroscience. What year is your dictionary? BC or AD?

Canuckus Deploracus Loc: North of the wall

PaulPisces wrote:

You misunderstand the concept here, my friend. br... (show quote)

Firstly... I have never stated that I find the Bible to be the uncontested word of a divine being... I have stated on several threads that I believe the Bible is fallible....(as it was written by man..) We are likely to find common ground if we engage in open discussion, without generalizing or stereotyping each other... If you wish to know my beliefs you have but to ask...

Secondly... Whether the result of psychological conditioning (due to Environment and other factors) or biological errors (hormonal imbalances in the womb) it does not change the fact that these individuals inhabit physical bodies... We are not created equal and biological males should not ne given the same rights as biological females (sporting competitions for example)...

Thirdly... Individuals born to both sexes are a biological deviation... This is an error... They do occur... I have not said otherwise... That is a biological distinction... Transgenderism is a psychological distinction... We can test for individuals born with both sexual organs...

Fourthly....Some cultures revere human sacrifice and cannibalism... Others believe that women are lower forms of life... Others define races as superior or inferior... Just because there are some cultures that revere transgenderism does not mean that it is natural or desirable...

Lastly... God may have created transexuals... I would never attempt to speak for Him... I am certain that He loves them as much as any of His children...

Paul.... I apologize if I come off confrontational... I usually enjoy your dialogue... But I don't appreciate others informing me of what my beliefs are without bothering to inquire as to said beliefs first...

Rose42

PaulPisces wrote:

I can understand how this is so completely foreig... (show quote)

I have interacted with them and i have a brother who has chosen to be homosexual. I have had much contact. There is nothing to explore. No matter how badly one wants it one is either male or female. Males aren’t trapped in females bodies and vice versa. I don’t know what happens in peoples lives that compels them to choose this but progressives will not address that.

I’m sure they will find someone to give them the results they want in a study.

rumitoid

Canuckus Deploracus wrote:

Firstly... I have never stated that I find the Bib... (show quote)

This is an open forum so I will respond.

"Thirdly... Individuals born to both sexes are a biological deviation... This is an error... They do occur... I have not said otherwise... That is a biological distinction... Transgenderism is a psychological distinction... We can test for individuals born with both sexual organs..."
If they are born transgender and act on that, as natural hermaphrodites, how is that a "psychological distinction"? And how is that a "biological deviation" or "error" unless we are of the opinion it is somehow wrong. 1 in 2000 births. 353,000 babies are born each day around the world. Not very rare. And the very fact of their existence proves that there is more to the question of being transgender that many will admit. For the religious crowd, are they not God's handiwork as well?

Canuckus Deploracus Loc: North of the wall

rumitoid wrote:

This is an open forum so I will respond. br br &q... (show quote)

Hermaphrodites are not transgenders... I'm not sure how you conflate the two...
Hermaphrodites are born with two sets of sexual organs... And are sterile... They are a biological deviation...

Transgenders are born to a distinct gender and wish to change that gender... That is a psychological distinction...

Please don't conflate hermaphrodites and transgenders...

rumitoid

Rose42 wrote:

I have interacted with them and i have a brother who has chosen to be homosexual. I have had much contact. There is nothing to explore. No matter how badly one wants it one is either male or female. Males aren’t trapped in females bodies and vice versa. I don’t know what happens in peoples lives that compels them to choose this but progressives will not address that.

I’m sure they will find someone to give them the results they want in a study.

Rose, I believe that some people, or maybe many, choose a homosexual lifestyle. But it definitely is not true that any of us--yes, any of us--is either male or female. That is simple science. Appearances can be and usually are deceiving. The fact that progressives allow for the science on this subject and thus seem to undermine what many see as a God ordained strict dichotomy of male and female, is what most object to.