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Are all non-Catholics Going to Hell?
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Sep 16, 2018 13:44:05   #
tbutkovich
 
woodguru wrote:
That's your belief propagated by a church that is not adverse to propaganda in order to cow their base with fear of the afterlife. How you live and treat people in this life matters, and if there is a judgement those who hate are not going to be judged kindly just because they profess to believe in god.

And yes, those who hate are not faring well in this country either people are sick of hatred and bigotry, and I do not understand how anyone who is a real christian could ever refuse to denounce those who hate.
That's your belief propagated by a church that is ... (show quote)


We must fear God just like we feared our parents who can apply the rod for inappropriate behavior. God establishes his laws in scripture by means of the psalms the proverbs recorded in the Old Testament and readings and acts of the apostles recorded in the New Testament. The Bible is like the constitution governing man’s behavior. You seem to have a grudge against Christians because they worship God. You seem to believe that all Christians just go through the motions to present an image they are godly righteous people and then outside the church ignore the laws of God. You are partially correct in your assessment of some Christians which I would label “Casual Christians or Part Time Christians. I used to be one, but have recently renewed my faith and have changed. Treatment of others is extremely important, but without the acknowledgement of your creator and Christ as your savior, you cannot gain heaven. I have to work every day to follow the straight and narrow. I know many Christians struggle to stay on the path of righteousness and we sometime step over the line, have to confess our sins and re-establish our relationship to God.

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Sep 16, 2018 14:02:08   #
padremike Loc: Phenix City, Al
 
woodguru wrote:
The key to "heaven"... peace in an afterlife is peace and grace in this life, I don't give a damn who you worship or if you worship nothing but life, as long as you treat people with kindness, respect, and grace. And I don't care what you think worshiping god does for you in an afterlife, if you treat people with hate you are living in hell on this earth...not to mention you are a POS. My mother in North Carolina before she died made the (accurate) comment that some of the people in her church didn't have a christian bone in their bodies....

I call them alt christians because christians they are not, they believe they are and that doesn't mean a thing.
The key to "heaven"... peace in an after... (show quote)


Well, you're just plum silly!

Reply
Sep 16, 2018 16:35:19   #
Carol Kelly
 
crazylibertarian wrote:
I stirred up a lot of vitriol from non-Catholics on OPP when I wrote along these lines previously. One of the major arguments presented was that all that is necessary for salvation os Jesus' death. Well what good was Chris's death if you don't live a life in accordance with his teachings?

Many of you cited various scriptures telling me I would go to hell for being Catholic. For each and every one of you, try this one on for size. It'a directly from the King James. Christ's death is worth nothing of you embark on a life of sin.

Responses invited however you MUST rebut this. None of you can.

Faith Without Works Is Dead
James CHapter 2, 14 What good is it, my brothers, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can that faith save him? 15 If a brother or sister is poorly clothed and lacking in daily food, 16 and one of you says to them, “Go in peace, be warmed and filled,” without giving them the things needed for the body, what good[a] is that? 17 So also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead. 18 But someone will say, “You have faith and I have works.” Show me your faith apart from your works, and I will show you my faith by my works.
I stirred up a lot of vitriol from non-Catholics o... (show quote)


Great quote! I’m Espiscopalian and I know a number of Catholics. How can anyone say Catholics are doomed. They’re some of the best, most active Christians I know.

Reply
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Sep 16, 2018 16:38:50   #
Carol Kelly
 
tbutkovich wrote:
We must fear God just like we feared our parents who can apply the rod for inappropriate behavior. God establishes his laws in scripture by means of the psalms the proverbs recorded in the Old Testament and readings and acts of the apostles recorded in the New Testament. The Bible is like the constitution governing man’s behavior. You seem to have a grudge against Christians because they worship God. You seem to believe that all Christians just go through the motions to present an image they are godly righteous people and then outside the church ignore the laws of God. You are partially correct in your assessment of some Christians which I would label “Casual Christians or Part Time Christians. I used to be one, but have recently renewed my faith and have changed. Treatment of others is extremely important, but without the acknowledgement of your creator and Christ as your savior, you cannot gain heaven. I have to work every day to follow the straight and narrow. I know many Christians struggle to stay on the path of righteousness and we sometime step over the line, have to confess our sins and re-establish our relationship to God.
We must fear God just like we feared our parents w... (show quote)


Confess our sins and not just in church on Sunday and pray that God guides our thoughts, actions and footsteps forgiving us for our missteps along the way. We are none of us perfect but we can strive to be the best that we can be.

Reply
Sep 16, 2018 19:44:59   #
malachi
 
crazylibertarian wrote:
I stirred up a lot of vitriol from non-Catholics on OPP when I wrote along these lines previously. One of the major arguments presented was that all that is necessary for salvation os Jesus' death. Well what good was Chris's death if you don't live a life in accordance with his teachings?

Many of you cited various scriptures telling me I would go to hell for being Catholic. For each and every one of you, try this one on for size. It'a directly from the King James. Christ's death is worth nothing of you embark on a life of sin.

Responses invited however you MUST rebut this. None of you can.

Faith Without Works Is Dead
James CHapter 2, 14 What good is it, my brothers, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can that faith save him? 15 If a brother or sister is poorly clothed and lacking in daily food, 16 and one of you says to them, “Go in peace, be warmed and filled,” without giving them the things needed for the body, what good[a] is that? 17 So also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead. 18 But someone will say, “You have faith and I have works.” Show me your faith apart from your works, and I will show you my faith by my works.
I stirred up a lot of vitriol from non-Catholics o... (show quote)


Anyone, catholic or non-catholic, will go to hell if they have not received Jesus as a personal friend. He is

the only way we will get into heaven. John l4:6. His sacrifice for our sins is what opens the door for those

who ACCEPT IT. He Himself said no one would come to the Father except through Him. Simple enough.

Reply
Sep 16, 2018 21:07:04   #
tbutkovich
 
malachi wrote:
Anyone, catholic or non-catholic, will go to hell if they have not received Jesus as a personal friend. He is

the only way we will get into heaven. John l4:6. His sacrifice for our sins is what opens the door for those

who ACCEPT IT. He Himself said no one would come to the Father except through Him. Simple enough.


That was the message in today’s mass. Here is the message:

Recorded word of God (Jesus) by Apostle John verse 8.12: “When Jesus spoke to the people again, he said: “I am the Light of the World, whoever follows me will never have darkness, but have the light of life.” The allegory used by the Lord in this verse speaks of the “Light of his Truth, the light of his word and the light of eternal life.”

Reply
Sep 17, 2018 10:05:15   #
malachi
 
tbutkovich wrote:
That was the message in today’s mass. Here is the message:

Recorded word of God (Jesus) by Apostle John verse 8.12: “When Jesus spoke to the people again, he said: “I am the Light of the World, whoever follows me will never have darkness, but have the light of life.” The allegory used by the Lord in this verse speaks of the “Light of his Truth, the light of his word and the light of eternal life.”


Thank God for Jesus !!

Reply
 
 
Sep 17, 2018 10:26:31   #
mwdegutis Loc: Illinois
 
woodguru wrote:
...you cling to only the belief that you are a christian, and beliefs are not facts

You still don't have a clue.

Reply
Sep 17, 2018 10:29:03   #
mwdegutis Loc: Illinois
 
crazylibertarian wrote:
With all due respect mwdegutis, what you've posted supports what I have written.

What I meant -- and a little wordy I might add -- is that you don't gain salvation by your works. You gain salvation by your faith in what Jesus did for you on the cross...ONLY! Your works are EVIDENCE of your salvation.

Reply
Sep 17, 2018 10:32:41   #
mwdegutis Loc: Illinois
 
woodguru wrote:
Are you having problems tracking? I directly answered in that it's irrelevant to people who do not believe in god, and that the only important thing is whether a person acts like a christian with christian values that reflect kindness, compassion, and respect for other people.

If there is a god that god would have far more regard for someone who acted like a christian than the alt christians that treat people with hatred and bigotry. If there is a hell they will be populating it.

ALL of what you've just said is a path straight to hell.

Reply
Sep 17, 2018 12:56:03   #
tbutkovich
 
woodguru wrote:
Are you having problems tracking? I directly answered in that it's irrelevant to people who do not believe in god, and that the only important thing is whether a person acts like a christian with christian values that reflect kindness, compassion, and respect for other people.

If there is a god that god would have far more regard for someone who acted like a christian than the alt christians that treat people with hatred and bigotry. If there is a hell they will be populating it.


Your completely missing the point. There is a God and he is the creator of the world. He makes the rules, he ask you to follow his rules. You can’t get to heaven on your terms. It has to be on his terms. The Scripture is there, church service is there, you can pray in your own words. Youcan treat others with dignity, kindness and respect but without accepting Christ as your savior, you will not gain eternal life. You sound like you are not certain that God exists. The first step is to recognize he does exist and then work out a plan to accept Christ into your heart. Many stuggle having to choose between the “belief in God” or “Atheism.”

Reply
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Sep 17, 2018 14:11:51   #
maximus Loc: Chattanooga, Tennessee
 
crazylibertarian wrote:
I stirred up a lot of vitriol from non-Catholics on OPP when I wrote along these lines previously. One of the major arguments presented was that all that is necessary for salvation os Jesus' death. Well what good was Chris's death if you don't live a life in accordance with his teachings?

Many of you cited various scriptures telling me I would go to hell for being Catholic. For each and every one of you, try this one on for size. It'a directly from the King James. Christ's death is worth nothing of you embark on a life of sin.

Responses invited however you MUST rebut this. None of you can.

Faith Without Works Is Dead
James CHapter 2, 14 What good is it, my brothers, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can that faith save him? 15 If a brother or sister is poorly clothed and lacking in daily food, 16 and one of you says to them, “Go in peace, be warmed and filled,” without giving them the things needed for the body, what good[a] is that? 17 So also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead. 18 But someone will say, “You have faith and I have works.” Show me your faith apart from your works, and I will show you my faith by my works.
I stirred up a lot of vitriol from non-Catholics o... (show quote)



At the judgement seat of Christ, men's works will be tried by fire. Here are the verses;

!st Corinthians Chaptert 3
11 For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.

12 Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble;

13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.

14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.

15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.

So, a man who is saved, will be saved even if he has NO good works! A man who is not saved will be condemned to hell even if he has countless good works.

This is what it takes to be saved; Jesus came to earth to die for our sins. No one killed him, but he gave up his own life for ours ( John 3;16). He was buried and rose again the third day. This is the gospel of the New Testament. It is your belief that is critical to salvation. So, following logic, WHAT you believe is of the utmost importance.
The word 'catholic' was first used to describe Christians, however 'Roman' catholic is a whole 'nuther ball game. Here's a few things 'wrong' with Roman Catholicism. In John 14:6, "Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me." It doesn't say plus Mary, plus priests, plus 40,000 canonized saints. The Bible says nothing about a Pope. Mary was blessed among women, but she is a bag of bones in Israel, and to pray to her ( or anybody else) is an abomination. No man on earth can forgive sins. Purgatory...where in the Bible is purgatory? And you have to pay to get out? Can you give me some Bible versus to back up these things? I don't believe you can.
Let's do the gospel again...if you believe and accept that the sacrifice of Jesus Christ and his blood are sufficient to pay for your sins, then the the heavenly Father has promised eternal life for you. What else can anybody add, how far can anybody deviate before it changes what they think the gospel is? None at all is the answer. You can't believe the gospel plus anything else and get to heaven, pure and simple. You can't believe we're all going to get there one way or another, because Jesus said there is only ONE way. You can't add water baptism or speaking in tongues and it still be the gospel. You certainly can't add people.
I go to a baptist church but I'm not a baptist. Baptism is not required to fulfill the gospel.
So, to answer your title question, I don't believe that Catholics, Church of Christ, Church of God, Presbyterian, Methodist, Seventh Day Adventist, Jehovah Witness, Morman, Satanists, Wiccan, or any other cult will get to heaven. Will God send these and lost people to hell? No, they will send themselves, because they have chosen to change the gospel to suit what they were raised up on or what they prefer to believe or they believe what makes them feel comfortable.
If you religion says that salvation is more than the simple gospel, then you have the wrong religion. As a matter of fact, I have NO religion at all. I am simply a person who has been saved from hell.
This is NOT my opinion but is what's found in the Bible. Accept the blood of Jesus Christ today and become a saved person.

Reply
Sep 17, 2018 14:41:18   #
padremike Loc: Phenix City, Al
 
maximus wrote:
At the judgement seat of Christ, men's works will be tried by fire. Here are the verses;

!st Corinthians Chaptert 3
11 For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.

12 Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble;

13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.

14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.

15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.

So, a man who is saved, will be saved even if he has NO good works! A man who is not saved will be condemned to hell even if he has countless good works.

This is what it takes to be saved; Jesus came to earth to die for our sins. No one killed him, but he gave up his own life for ours ( John 3;16). He was buried and rose again the third day. This is the gospel of the New Testament. It is your belief that is critical to salvation. So, following logic, WHAT you believe is of the utmost importance.
The word 'catholic' was first used to describe Christians, however 'Roman' catholic is a whole 'nuther ball game. Here's a few things 'wrong' with Roman Catholicism. In John 14:6, "Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me." It doesn't say plus Mary, plus priests, plus 40,000 canonized saints. The Bible says nothing about a Pope. Mary was blessed among women, but she is a bag of bones in Israel, and to pray to her ( or anybody else) is an abomination. No man on earth can forgive sins. Purgatory...where in the Bible is purgatory? And you have to pay to get out? Can you give me some Bible versus to back up these things? I don't believe you can.
Let's do the gospel again...if you believe and accept that the sacrifice of Jesus Christ and his blood are sufficient to pay for your sins, then the the heavenly Father has promised eternal life for you. What else can anybody add, how far can anybody deviate before it changes what they think the gospel is? None at all is the answer. You can't believe the gospel plus anything else and get to heaven, pure and simple. You can't believe we're all going to get there one way or another, because Jesus said there is only ONE way. You can't add water baptism or speaking in tongues and it still be the gospel. You certainly can't add people.
I go to a baptist church but I'm not a baptist. Baptism is not required to fulfill the gospel.
So, to answer your title question, I don't believe that Catholics, Church of Christ, Church of God, Presbyterian, Methodist, Seventh Day Adventist, Jehovah Witness, Morman, Satanists, Wiccan, or any other cult will get to heaven. Will God send these and lost people to hell? No, they will send themselves, because they have chosen to change the gospel to suit what they were raised up on or what they prefer to believe or they believe what makes them feel comfortable.
If you religion says that salvation is more than the simple gospel, then you have the wrong religion. As a matter of fact, I have NO religion at all. I am simply a person who has been saved from hell.
This is NOT my opinion but is what's found in the Bible. Accept the blood of Jesus Christ today and become a saved person.
At the judgement seat of Christ, men's works will ... (show quote)


Yawn...ZZZZZZzzzzzzz

Reply
Sep 17, 2018 17:35:39   #
malachi
 
Carol Kelly wrote:
Great quote! I’m Espiscopalian and I know a number of Catholics. How can anyone say Catholics are doomed. They’re some of the best, most active Christians I know.


They are pious but works won't get them into heaven -- only faith IN Jesus because of what He has done for us !

Reply
Sep 17, 2018 17:37:18   #
malachi
 
maximus wrote:
At the judgement seat of Christ, men's works will be tried by fire. Here are the verses;

!st Corinthians Chaptert 3
11 For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.

12 Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble;

13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.

14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.

15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.

So, a man who is saved, will be saved even if he has NO good works! A man who is not saved will be condemned to hell even if he has countless good works.

This is what it takes to be saved; Jesus came to earth to die for our sins. No one killed him, but he gave up his own life for ours ( John 3;16). He was buried and rose again the third day. This is the gospel of the New Testament. It is your belief that is critical to salvation. So, following logic, WHAT you believe is of the utmost importance.
The word 'catholic' was first used to describe Christians, however 'Roman' catholic is a whole 'nuther ball game. Here's a few things 'wrong' with Roman Catholicism. In John 14:6, "Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me." It doesn't say plus Mary, plus priests, plus 40,000 canonized saints. The Bible says nothing about a Pope. Mary was blessed among women, but she is a bag of bones in Israel, and to pray to her ( or anybody else) is an abomination. No man on earth can forgive sins. Purgatory...where in the Bible is purgatory? And you have to pay to get out? Can you give me some Bible versus to back up these things? I don't believe you can.
Let's do the gospel again...if you believe and accept that the sacrifice of Jesus Christ and his blood are sufficient to pay for your sins, then the the heavenly Father has promised eternal life for you. What else can anybody add, how far can anybody deviate before it changes what they think the gospel is? None at all is the answer. You can't believe the gospel plus anything else and get to heaven, pure and simple. You can't believe we're all going to get there one way or another, because Jesus said there is only ONE way. You can't add water baptism or speaking in tongues and it still be the gospel. You certainly can't add people.
I go to a baptist church but I'm not a baptist. Baptism is not required to fulfill the gospel.
So, to answer your title question, I don't believe that Catholics, Church of Christ, Church of God, Presbyterian, Methodist, Seventh Day Adventist, Jehovah Witness, Morman, Satanists, Wiccan, or any other cult will get to heaven. Will God send these and lost people to hell? No, they will send themselves, because they have chosen to change the gospel to suit what they were raised up on or what they prefer to believe or they believe what makes them feel comfortable.
If you religion says that salvation is more than the simple gospel, then you have the wrong religion. As a matter of fact, I have NO religion at all. I am simply a person who has been saved from hell.
This is NOT my opinion but is what's found in the Bible. Accept the blood of Jesus Christ today and become a saved person.
At the judgement seat of Christ, men's works will ... (show quote)


Whew! Best answers I have ever seen for this argument. Right on !!!

Reply
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