politediscourse

You raise an excellent point Kevyn, but I have to clear out some of the partisan rhetoric that obscures the good point you raised. Speculation on whether Ford or Gore would have been president has no currency concerning your point. The republicans had a bitter hatred of Clinton that was mirrored by the Dem's bitter hatred of Bush which the republicans mirrored in there a bitter hatred of Obama which is mirrored by democrats bitter hatred of Trump. And what is the result? Stupid, useless and pointless attacks of character rather than legitimate discussion our leaders policies and the goals they support. Dear god when will it end?

“Honorable” Obama? In popularity polls Obama comes in at 12 (Time, Cspan). The center left leaning Brooking Institute rates him 18 behind George Hebert Walker Bush (17). The Centrist Pew Research Center rates him even lower. Sorry Kevyn, but “Most Americans” and "one of the most honorable" appears to be a partisan over reach from what I can find.

So now as to the excellent point you surface; I will put my stake in the sand with this; The constitution doesn’t expressly forbid bringing criminal charges against a sitting President but I think the risk of abuse in allowing that far out-weighs any advantages. And there is nothing preventing a sitting president from pardoning him or herself. Can you imagine a convicted President, self pardoned finishing out their term? Oh boy. The first course of action should be impeachment by the house (much less stringent evidence required) and trial but senate. If convicted he or she is immediately removed from office. If removed, should we prosecute the former President? Depends on the Crime. If the crime is Treason or something close, (like getting a BJ and then fibbing about it?) then “Yes”, along with the death penalty. If the crime is something less severe, I say “No”. Why? Too distracting, too divisive, too polarizing, will drag on too long and leaves too many possibilities for cries of partiality that can lead to redemption. Consider: Nixon was utterly disgraced and remained pariah and outcast till the day he died. He had no possibility of redemption because the claim of partisan politics or perceived unfairness had no merit in the absence of a trial. Everyone to this day believes he got better than he deserved. His pardon was in many ways the worse punishment this nation could sentence him to. For the record, in 2014 Woodward called Ford’s Pardon an act of courage. In 2011 Bernstein called the pardon an act of great courage. In 2001 Ted Kennedy said that while he initially opposed the pardon, he had come to accept it as the best move for the country. So that's my 2 cents and I am looking forward to other takes on the matter.

politediscourse

I cant follow or add anything to these claims and counter claims about who was the more despicable and nefarious criminal; Obama or Trump. But I can add this; Since 1945 it has been legally impossible to charge any US citizen with treason. The charge of treason is narrowly defined and requires the US to be in an officially declared war. The last time the Congress issued a declaration of war was on December 8th, 1941. Any discussions concerning treason after the end of WWII are Moot.

ARTICLE THREE SECTION THREE OF THE CONSTITUTION OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA
Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying War against them, or in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort. No Person shall be convicted of Treason unless on the Testimony of two Witnesses to the same overt Act, or on Confession in open Court.

The Congress shall have power to declare the Punishment of Treason, but no Attainder of Treason shall work Corruption of Blood, or Forfeiture except during the Life of the Person attainted.

oldroy Loc: Western Kansas (No longer in hiding)

Have we had a trial of the present president yet? Has he been found guilty of a crime, yet? You calling him a criminal doesn't make him one. You left handed bastards acting like you do doesn't make him a criminal.

bggamers Loc: georgia

DACA and he said it him self it was not lawfull

bggamers Loc: georgia

look up thefederalist.com 10 ways Obama violated the constitution it list some like the chyrsler bale out/Obamacare/political profiling IRS/recess appointments did all this and more thur executive authority to by pass congress

donald41 Loc: puyallup Wa

I suggest that you google. Obama crimes,

Mikeyavelli

Can anybody state specifically what crime Obama is guilty of? Of course not. I mean can you cite a law he violated. The race haters are angry because he wasn't white. You poor ignorant fools.


Yeah, here's a crime, the sunnuvabitch obama claimed that he was black, but he's 50 % white and 44 % Luo Deng Arab and only 6 % black.
Hardly enough black in him for a raysiss like me to hate because of it.

Super Dave Loc: Realville, USA

Sitting Presidents are immune from prosecution.

Kev is a troll. Nothing more.

A trolls mission is to lie, mislead, and misinform. Usually with lies that are known by everyone to be lies.

Radiance3

====================
Obama should have been locked up already along with Hillary. They are still free with their Deep State.

kankune Loc: Iowa

Kind of sounds like what a muslim believes in huh....hmmmmmm...

Mikeyavelli

Islam. What a morose way of life.
If Mueller's face were a religion, it would be Islam.

kankune Loc: Iowa

BAMMMM...right on Mike!!

Super Dave Loc: Realville, USA

I true Muslim believes in his faith. There are plenty.

Kev is worse. He knows he's lying, because the outrageous lie is his goal.

To know the difference in a Partisan and a troll, just watch what they do with known facts, both that help his side of the argument as well as the opposite side. A Partisan won't be happy about the failures of his side, and will be unlikely to bring them up, but won't deny them. When the other side is proven to be at fault, a Partisan will be happy to broadcast the facts, perhaps with too much glee, but will be satisfied with the proof that exists.

A Troll like Kev is never satisfied with the facts. They deny the faults of their side, and can't help themselves but to exaggerate the faults of the other side until it's 100% obvious that he's lying.

youngwilliam Loc: Deep in the heart

I know, it's amazing what he and petey bird and a few others contrive in thier posts. They are know all see all, able to see the future and project what the other side is going to do or think. I read their posts and just laugh. They are so full of themselves I can see them gloating to themselves.