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Nov 17, 2017 08:09:05   #
debeda
 
Larry the Legend wrote:
Try this. I think it explains everything tax related:

Suppose that every day, ten men go out for beer and the bill for all ten comes to $100…

If they paid their bill the way we pay our taxes, it would go something like this…

The first four men (the poorest) would pay nothing.

The fifth would pay $1.

The sixth would pay $3.

The seventh would pay $7..

The eighth would pay $12.

The ninth would pay $18.

The tenth man (the richest) would pay $59.

So, that’s what they decided to do..

The ten men drank in the bar every day and seemed quite happy with the arrangement, until one day, the owner threw them a curve ball. “Since you are all such good customers,” he said, “I’m going to reduce the cost of your daily beer by $20”. Drinks for the ten men would now cost just $80.

The group still wanted to pay their bill the way we pay our taxes. So the first four men were unaffected. They would still drink for free. But what about the other six men? The paying customers? How could they divide the $20 windfall so that everyone would get his fair share?

They realized that $20 divided by six is $3.33. But if they subtracted that from everybody’s share, then the fifth man and the sixth man would each end up being paid to drink his beer.

So, the bar owner suggested that it would be fair to reduce each man’s bill by a higher percentage the poorer he was, to follow the principle of the tax system they had been using, and he proceeded to work out the amounts he suggested that each should now pay.

And so the fifth man, like the first four, now paid nothing (100% saving).

The sixth now paid $2 instead of $3 (33% saving).

The seventh now paid $5 instead of $7 (28% saving).

The eighth now paid $9 instead of $12 (25% saving).

The ninth now paid $14 instead of $18 (22% saving).

The tenth now paid $49 instead of $59 (16% saving).

Each of the six was better off than before. And the first four continued to drink for free. But, once outside the bar, the men began to compare their savings.

“I only got a dollar out of the $20 saving,” declared the sixth man. He pointed to the tenth man,”but he got $10!”

“Yeah, that’s right,” exclaimed the fifth man. “I only saved a dollar too. It’s unfair that he got ten times more benefit than me!”

“That’s true!” shouted the seventh man. “Why should he get $10 back, when I got only $2? The wealthy get all the breaks!”

“Wait a minute,” yelled the first four men in unison, “we didn’t get anything at all. This new tax system exploits the poor!”

The nine men surrounded the tenth and beat him up.

The next night the tenth man didn’t show up for drinks, so the nine sat down and had their beers without him. But when it came time to pay the bill, they discovered something important. They didn’t have enough money between all of them for even half of the bill!

And that, boys and girls, journalists and government ministers, is how our tax system works. The people who already pay the highest taxes will naturally get the most benefit from a tax reduction. Tax them too much, attack them for being wealthy, and they just may not show up anymore. In fact, they might start drinking overseas, where the atmosphere is somewhat friendlier.
Try this. I think it explains everything tax rela... (show quote)


That's a GREAT analogy☺☺

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Nov 17, 2017 08:23:19   #
Kevyn
 
2bltap wrote:
My question is this. Why does it matter if a big corporation gets tax relief? The top percentage of thoose with money are the ones that have created most of the jobs in this counntry so whats wrong with them getting some slack cut? All this BS pertaining to "THE FAIR SHARE ISSUE" that has been pushed by mostly the Democrats i sredicuales. Who's right is it to determine what that fair share is supposed to be? Other than those of wealth that were born into it which is the smaller percentage, the owners of those companies that have done extremely well shoulld be able to keep as much of the profits as they see fit. So what is the big deal?
Semper Fi
My question is this. Why does it matter if a big ... (show quote)
Corporations enjoy the majority of government services and should pay for them. Look at our military adventures over seas, they are not protecting us from invasion or attack they protect the interests of multinational corporations. Not taxing overseas earnings encourages corporations to move operations overseas. Adjusting tax law to penalize offshoring, along with stiff tariffs on imports would do much more to bring relief to working families. Most wealthy Americans are not self made but came to wealth from inheritance and built on that. Is it realy reasonable that an emergency room nurse pay a significantly larger portion of her income than a Jett setting trust fund playboy who “makes a living” from hedge fund investment. Don’t get me wrong the middle class workers could use tax relief and most of it would go directly into the economy. However it should be balanced with taxing capitol gains as income and taxing all capital that is moved off shore.

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Nov 17, 2017 08:25:04   #
Larry the Legend Loc: Not hiding in Milton
 
Peewee wrote:
The best surest was to reduce government spending is to eliminate the Federal Income Tax and make the Feds get their money from trade and tariffs like the Constitution states.

Close down the Federal Reserve and you eliminate planned inflation and globalism.

Return to the gold standard and your money has value again.

Return all Federal power not spelled out in the Constitution back to the States.

Get a clue people... the founding fathers had it right... and were smarter and braver than us.

They knew their Bibles, most knew several languages, and they knew history, they knew both governments and men needed restraints and this new nation would only work if people were moral (that would be the Ten Commandments with a death penalty for those who refused to be moral).
The best surest was to reduce government spending ... (show quote)


You are sooo right. Repealing the Federal Reserve Act of 1913 would bring about an avalanche of collapsing government waste like never before. Imagine, government acting within its means again. Never going to happen. Sorry, it's all a beautiful pipe dream.

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Nov 17, 2017 08:43:31   #
Candace Grugel
 
kankune wrote:
I agree with you 100%. So what if they get some tax relief. Then they can create new jobs, wages go up, people spend more money....and.....people are happier. Dems are always going to gripe about it tho because thats all they have.

They (the government) don't want us to be happy. They only want us to be subservient to them and be broke.

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Nov 17, 2017 08:45:35   #
Larry the Legend Loc: Not hiding in Milton
 
Kevyn wrote:
Most wealthy Americans are not self made but came to wealth from inheritance and built on that.


And some came into literally nothing. What's your point?

Kevyn wrote:
Is it realy [sic] reasonable that an emergency room nurse pay a significantly larger portion of her income than a Jett setting trust fund playboy who “makes a living” from hedge fund investment.


You know, you're right. People should pay for the goods and services they receive as a proportion of their net worth and income. Next time you go to Macdonald's, tell the counter server to charge you based on your income and to do the same for everybody else in the restaurant. That's only 'fair', right? The poor guy gets his big mac for a dime while the millionaire gets his for $10,000. That way we can all enjoy the same quality of life as everyone else, and nobody gets more than his 'fair share'.

Or, on the other hand, we could simply add up the bill for government spending for the year, divide that by the number of people and send each one a bill for the same amount. You know, like buying something at the store, where we all pay the same for the same things. Isn't that 'fair' too?

Of course, there is a third way, simply return government to its original purpose and function and make it pay for its operations out of tariffs like in the good old days when everyone had 'real' money in their pockets. But you wouldn't want that, would you?

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Nov 17, 2017 08:48:34   #
lindajoy Loc: right here with you....
 
2bltap wrote:
My question is this. Why does it matter if a big corporation gets tax relief? The top percentage of thoose with money are the ones that have created most of the jobs in this counntry so whats wrong with them getting some slack cut? All this BS pertaining to "THE FAIR SHARE ISSUE" that has been pushed by mostly the Democrats i sredicuales. Who's right is it to determine what that fair share is supposed to be? Other than those of wealth that were born into it which is the smaller percentage, the owners of those companies that have done extremely well shoulld be able to keep as much of the profits as they see fit. So what is the big deal?
Semper Fi
My question is this. Why does it matter if a big ... (show quote)


But tap~, they didn’t work for it or build it, government did.. So they want the profits..!!

Good Morning dear friend..Are you ready for turkey day??

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Nov 17, 2017 08:49:02   #
JFlorio Loc: Seminole Florida
 
A lot of this tax complaining seems to me straight up jealousy.
Larry the Legend wrote:
You know, you're right. People should pay for the goods and services they receive as a proportion of their net worth and income. Next time you go to Macdonald's, tell the counter server to charge you based on your income and to do the same for everybody else in the restaurant. That's only 'fair', right? The poor guy gets his big mac for a dime while the millionaire gets his for $10,000. That way we can all enjoy the same quality of life as everyone else, and nobody gets more than his 'fair share'.

Or, on the other hand, we could simply add up the bill for government spending for the year, divide that by the number of people and send each one a bill for the same amount. You know, like buying something at the store, where we all pay the same for the same things. Isn't that 'fair' too?

Of course, there is a third way, simply return government to its original purpose and function and make it pay for its operations out of tariffs like in the good old days when everyone had 'real' money in their pockets. But you wouldn't want that, would you?
You know, you're right. People should pay for the... (show quote)

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Nov 17, 2017 08:50:01   #
saltwind 78 Loc: Murrells Inlet, South Carolina
 
2bitap, The super wealthy of this country are using their wealth to gain more power. The middle class is not keeping up with increasing expenses. If this trend continues, it won't be long before the middle class will no longer be able to retire in security, save for their children education, own a home, or any other parts of the middle class long associated with being a hard working member of the American middle and blue collar class. It ia a perfect example of the wealthy enriching themselves at the expense of the non wealthy. The rich get richer while everybody else sinks into poverty. This is unsustainable and will lead to severe problems in the not so distant future. The new tax plan is a perfect example of this trend. The tax break for the rich is permanent while the tax break for the middle class will fade to nothing in a few years.
2bltap wrote:
My question is this. Why does it matter if a big corporation gets tax relief? The top percentage of thoose with money are the ones that have created most of the jobs in this counntry so whats wrong with them getting some slack cut? All this BS pertaining to "THE FAIR SHARE ISSUE" that has been pushed by mostly the Democrats i sredicuales. Who's right is it to determine what that fair share is supposed to be? Other than those of wealth that were born into it which is the smaller percentage, the owners of those companies that have done extremely well shoulld be able to keep as much of the profits as they see fit. So what is the big deal?
Semper Fi
My question is this. Why does it matter if a big ... (show quote)

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Nov 17, 2017 08:50:57   #
lindajoy Loc: right here with you....
 
Larry the Legend wrote:
You are sooo right. Repealing the Federal Reserve Act of 1913 would bring about an avalanche of collapsing government waste like never before. Imagine, government acting within its means again. Never going to happen. Sorry, it's all a beautiful pipe dream.


Unfortunately true, Larry , but we should still try, demand it etc..

Like Term limits they will never vote to limit their time to the slush funds that make them millions!!
We are about to take that one up!!

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Nov 17, 2017 09:01:22   #
Larry the Legend Loc: Not hiding in Milton
 
JFlorio wrote:
A lot of this tax complaining seems to me straight up jealousy.


You think?

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Nov 17, 2017 09:05:32   #
debeda
 
lindajoy wrote:
Unfortunately true, Larry , but we should still try, demand it etc..

Like Term limits they will never vote to limit their time to the slush funds that make them millions!!
We are about to take that one up!!


Isn't THAT the truth!!!

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Nov 17, 2017 09:06:22   #
JFlorio Loc: Seminole Florida
 
What specific tax breaks are the rich getting? Most super wealthy don't get "rich" at our expense forcibly. They provide a good or service we want or have . See Apple as an example. Taxing them at 90% wouldnt lift anyone out of the poor house.
saltwind 78 wrote:
2bitap, The super wealthy of this country are using their wealth to gain more power. The middle class is not keeping up with increasing expenses. If this trend continues, it won't be long before the middle class will no longer be able to retire in security, save for their children education, own a home, or any other parts of the middle class long associated with being a hard working member of the American middle and blue collar class. It ia a perfect example of the wealthy enriching themselves at the expense of the non wealthy. The rich get richer while everybody else sinks into poverty. This is unsustainable and will lead to severe problems in the not so distant future. The new tax plan is a perfect example of this trend. The tax break for the rich is permanent while the tax break for the middle class will fade to nothing in a few years.
2bitap, The super wealthy of this country are usin... (show quote)

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Nov 17, 2017 09:10:28   #
lindajoy Loc: right here with you....
 
debeda wrote:
Isn't THAT the truth!!!


Thank You

This government of ours has snowed us long enough and people are finally waking u!!

Good Morning to you as well...🌹

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Nov 17, 2017 09:24:32   #
Larry the Legend Loc: Not hiding in Milton
 
saltwind 78 wrote:
2bitap, The super wealthy of this country are using their wealth to gain more power. The middle class is not keeping up with increasing expenses. If this trend continues, it won't be long before the middle class will no longer be able to retire in security, save for their children education, own a home, or any other parts of the middle class long associated with being a hard working member of the American middle and blue collar class. It ia a perfect example of the wealthy enriching themselves at the expense of the non wealthy. The rich get richer while everybody else sinks into poverty. This is unsustainable and will lead to severe problems in the not so distant future. The new tax plan is a perfect example of this trend. The tax break for the rich is permanent while the tax break for the middle class will fade to nothing in a few years.
2bitap, The super wealthy of this country are usin... (show quote)


You're describing the symptoms and not the underlying disease. For instance, you say that expenses are increasing. No argument here. But why are expenses increasing? What is it that causes prices and costs to escalate and deprive the poor working stiff of his hard-earned paycheck? If you dig all the way down to the bottom of this rotten deal, what do you find looking back at you? Inflation.

What creates inflation?

Inflation is the result of lax monetary policy. If the money supply grows by the introduction of new money, the unit value of the currency diminishes; in other words, its purchasing power falls and prices rise. This relationship between the money supply and the size of the economy is called the quantity theory of money, and is one of the oldest hypotheses in economics.

Who creates inflation?

Central banks control the rates of interest in a given economy and have the ability to inject money into an economy through government issue of bonds that are then 'monetized' using the ability to literally create money from nothing. Government issues the bond, the central bank credits the government with the face value of the bond, and government is free to spend this into the economy, thus expanding the money supply and reducing the value of money already in existence. Since the value of money decreases, prices increase to compensate. And that's how we 'observe' inflation. The rising prices are the symptom, not the cause.

How do we 'fix' it?

Repeal the Federal Reserve Act of 1913. No central banking system, no inflation.

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Nov 17, 2017 09:52:28   #
ldsuttonjr Loc: ShangriLa
 
2bltap wrote:
My question is this. Why does it matter if a big corporation gets tax relief? The top percentage of thoose with money are the ones that have created most of the jobs in this counntry so whats wrong with them getting some slack cut? All this BS pertaining to "THE FAIR SHARE ISSUE" that has been pushed by mostly the Democrats i sredicuales. Who's right is it to determine what that fair share is supposed to be? Other than those of wealth that were born into it which is the smaller percentage, the owners of those companies that have done extremely well shoulld be able to keep as much of the profits as they see fit. So what is the big deal?
Semper Fi
My question is this. Why does it matter if a big ... (show quote)


2bltap: I for one never got any of my great jobs from a poor person! The definition of a tax cut is to reduce the tax bill from the IRS. It should not require a rocket scientist to understand that citizens who earn substantial amounts of money pay more dollars to the government than people who earn smaller amounts.

A socialistic viewpoint is not acceptable by the majority in a democracy or a republic. The wealth of a “free Nation” should not be redistributed and called the “duty “ of the wealthy. The so-called wealthy deserve less criticism as their accomplishments and fortunes were usually amassed by their intelligence and hard work.

To spend valuable time and energy degrading the wealthy only leaves less time for one to achieve his own goals.

I feel that the poor or working class should get a break. They do. An intelligent look at the many luxuries and governmental funded perks allocated to the poor and low-income residents reveals who pays and who receives. The thousands of social programs, scholarships, welfare. Medicaid, protective services, and the list goes on and on. describe the endless items available to the nonproductive inhabitants of our land. Yes, these are paid for by the wealthy, not the poor. At some future time, the wealthy may ask, “Give us a break.”

Jealousy is a very time-consuming waste of potential energy.

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