It is Clear What Confederate States Wanted (Page 4): All I can say to that comment is that you can not imagine what it truly means to have no rights, no freedoms and to be in full...

Morgan

Mr Bombastic wrote:

Regarding your last comment. Do you have any idea how expensive it was to own slaves? Do you know how much food they required to do the work they did? The slave owners had to provide them a place to live and food to eat. They also saw to their medical needs. Most slaves were well treated. Not surprising, considering how much it would cost to replace them. Slaves received room and board for working the fields. A not inconsiderable cost to the slave owner.

All I can say to that comment is that you can not imagine what it truly means to have no rights, no freedoms and to be in full control of someone else, at their every whim. Do you know how many families were split up, can you even imagine that?

Super Dave Loc: Realville, USA

Pennylynn wrote:

I find that many modern day individuals can not wrap their mind around the concept of owing another individual. However, throughout history and in all nations, states, and continents people have enslaved others. It still persists and I doubt that it will ever be eliminated. We now use terms such as hiring a housekeeper, labor, truck driver, office manager, and so on; in reality it is the buying of an individual to complete certain tasks with a time limit. In Antebellum times, individuals were bought and sold with open ended contracts. The individual who was bought performed specific tasks and in return received compensation. Slaves as well as indentured servants could never forget their status as property, no matter how well their owners treated them. But it would be too simplistic to say that all masters and slaves hated each other. Human beings who live and work together are bound to form relationships of some kind, and some masters and slaves genuinely cared for each other. But the caring was tempered and limited by the power imbalance under which it grew. Within the narrow confines of slavery, human relationships ran the gamut from compassionate to contemptuous. But the masters and slaves never approached equality.

I also find that most modern day people confuse dignity with respect, they think that one necessitates the other. One maintains their dignity regardless of circumstances whereas respect is given to an individual in appreciation for that person's personal qualities. The Antebellum slave, regardless of skin color or titles given them possessed dignity and this is the motivating factor in rebellions. Their dignity would not allow them to live in the status of being owned. They did not gain respect for many years, although many became accomplished scholars, musicians, poets, doctors and so forth. Many are still trying to gain the respect, most prove themselves through outstanding accomplishments, but far too many try to intimidate or take respect they think they are owed just from the sake of being born.

I find that many modern day individuals can not wr... (show quote)

Unborn children are owned by their mothers by USSC Fiat. The Democrat Party continues to be the part of slavery.

Super Dave Loc: Realville, USA

Morgan wrote:

All I can say to that comment is that you can not imagine what it truly means to have no rights, no freedoms and to be in full control of someone else, at their every whim. Do you know how many families were split up, can you even imagine that?

That's gotta suck.

Boo_Boo Loc: Jellystone

There are websites that briefly mention slavery in the north, this is one such site. I DO NOT VOUCH FOR THE STATISTICS they present, I have not had time to go through the data yet. But, it does seem to be in line with what I know. http://slavenorth.com I have no trouble going to the National Archives, I live close to DC and I normally spend two days a week at the archives. Most of the employees know me by name and will pull the books or documents for me and have them waiting. I plan to spend this Thursday and Friday combing through documents, so I hope to have a better handle on your question by Monday along with scanned documents.

I agree that the war was not a simply economics/slavery issue, there was much more to it. I can not agree with the way the slaves were released, I think that more forethought of their future should have been considered and in place. Instead many found themselves homeless and without funds. There were groups that tried to help, but the amount of people needing assistance was overwhelming, especially in the South where the Northern military burned down homes, pillaged farms for animals and staples leaving white people also homeless. With their bank accounts frozen and having only Confederate bonds which was worthless after the NA, there were hundreds of thousands of whites competing with the newly emancipated slaves for the same resources. This war was one of the most expensive wars waged and the Union's Federal Government did little to alleviate the situation. Keeping human nature in mind, there were precious few Southerners that could look beyond their own losses to see the issues or to even help the newly emancipated blacks. To compound the anger, farmers were ordered to break up their land and hand over acreages to the black along with cattle, seed, and work horses or mules. These were farms that were family run and many did not have slaves but were penalized as though they did. One of the family diaries tell about bands of looters swarming our farm and as she wrote; "carried off everything" and later she wrote about finding quits her mother had made torn up and laying in fields. Slaughtered animals left to rot, furniture broken, and clothing scatted to the winds. As one digs deeper then the real horror of the war becomes painfully obvious, it was not clinical or sterile, it was pain and suffering on the battlefield and in the lives of those living near those passages the soldiers took and then the suffering did not stop. The South, in my opinion, never recovered from this war and probably never will. Things might have been different if those in charge had a plan.... who knows.

Morgan wrote:

I'm not skirting your question, I did ask you for ... (show quote)

ghostgotcha Loc: The Florida swamps

This whole issue could have been solved long ago, if only the leaders of the South had loaded all their slaves on trains and sent them up nauth.

In about a month of the flood starting you can bet the yankees would be begging the south to take them back.

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

Morgan

Super Dave wrote:

That's gotta suck.

I agree

Morgan

Pennylynn wrote:

There are websites that briefly mention slavery in the north, this is one such site. I DO NOT VOUCH FOR THE STATISTICS they present, I have not had time to go through the data yet. But, it does seem to be in line with what I know. http://slavenorth.com I have no trouble going to the National Archives, I live close to DC and I normally spend two days a week at the archives. Most of the employees know me by name and will pull the books or documents for me and have them waiting. I plan to spend this Thursday and Friday combing through documents, so I hope to have a better handle on your question by Monday along with scanned documents.

I agree that the war was not a simply economics/slavery issue, there was much more to it. I can not agree with the way the slaves were released, I think that more forethought of their future should have been considered and in place. Instead many found themselves homeless and without funds. There were groups that tried to help, but the amount of people needing assistance was overwhelming, especially in the South where the Northern military burned down homes, pillaged farms for animals and staples leaving white people also homeless. With their bank accounts frozen and having only Confederate bonds which was worthless after the NA, there were hundreds of thousands of whites competing with the newly emancipated slaves for the same resources. This war was one of the most expensive wars waged and the Union's Federal Government did little to alleviate the situation. Keeping human nature in mind, there were precious few Southerners that could look beyond their own losses to see the issues or to even help the newly emancipated blacks. To compound the anger, farmers were ordered to break up their land and hand over acreages to the black along with cattle, seed, and work horses or mules. These were farms that were family run and many did not have slaves but were penalized as though they did. One of the family diaries tell about bands of looters swarming our farm and as she wrote; "carried off everything" and later she wrote about finding quits her mother had made torn up and laying in fields. Slaughtered animals left to rot, furniture broken, and clothing scatted to the winds. As one digs deeper then the real horror of the war becomes painfully obvious, it was not clinical or sterile, it was pain and suffering on the battlefield and in the lives of those living near those passages the soldiers took and then the suffering did not stop. The South, in my opinion, never recovered from this war and probably never will. Things might have been different if those in charge had a plan.... who knows.

There are websites that briefly mention slavery in... (show quote)

I agree with you whole heartedly and yet we seem to go into war still, in the same manner, I think war should be avoided at all costs, mostly due to the collateral damage of innocent lives. Some here I had read were eager to bomb N.Korea, even when someone had posted a comment from a young teenager worried for her life and the life of her family who had no animosity towards anyone, just trying to live day by day, yet the commenter's post was similar to... oh well war is hell.

America doesn't like to talk about their own indiscretions, especially in war, from the very beginning as in ostracizing Native Americans from their own country. I believe the atrocities in war seem to be unavoidable, it is the nature of the beast...literally.

Now people speak of a civil war with conviction and zest. It would be a horrible self-infliction we would put on ourselves, which I believe outside entities would take advantage of, it only makes sense to do so, then where will be? Maybe now is a good time to go over the harsh reality of what actually did go on during our last civil war which wasn't that long ago.

Morgan

ghostgotcha wrote:

This whole issue could have been solved long ago, if only the leaders of the South had loaded all their slaves on trains and sent them up nauth.

In about a month of the flood starting you can bet the yankees would be begging the south to take them back.

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

b This whole issue could have been solved long ag... (show quote)

WOW what is with that link?

Where do you think the blacks went after the civil war? New York, Chicago. Following the final abolition of slavery in New York in 1827, New York City emerged as one of the largest post-Civil War metropolitan concentrations of free African-Americans, though still not having any rights to vote, at that time you had to be a property owner. Which I've read has been suggested to go back to, it wouldn't surprise me, another way to alienate poorer citizens from voting.

Super Dave Loc: Realville, USA

Morgan wrote:

WOW what is with that link?

Democrat Party "Get out the Vote" drive.

(Just kidding,...)

Morgan

Super Dave wrote:

Democrat Party "Get out the Vote" drive.

(Just kidding,...)

Kidding is good

TEAM CALAWAY

Morgan wrote:

I agree with you whole heartedly and yet we seem t... (show quote)

There are innocent people that die in war. What is it, the slective bombing. That's what has kept us from taking care of isis, and other terrorist. However, it sounds bad, let's go in and kill the enemy at all costs. War with NK, I think we should drop a bomb in Kims lap and wipe out all missle silos, and we have got to hit their parade area. PROBLEM SOLVED...
A civil war is very possible. I live about 35 miles away from Charlotte and we have not had any problems yet, but you can feel the tinson in the air. We have had problems in the past, but for the best part not much violence. Surely people have to have an idea on what a civil war would do to us the USA. Where would it end, and how many people would have to die??? Again, a civil war is very possible... GET READY, STAY AT THE ALERT..

ghostgotcha Loc: The Florida swamps

Morgan wrote:

WOW what is with that link?

Where do you think the blacks went after the civil war? New York, Chicago. Following the final abolition of slavery in New York in 1827, New York City emerged as one of the largest post-Civil War metropolitan concentrations of free African-Americans........

Do you think it might have to do with all the propaganda the Yankees laid out during the war and all the promises they made to the black population for more, more and even more?
Yes they got cheep labor to clean their little babies butts and scrub their floors. It worked --

ghostgotcha Loc: The Florida swamps

Let me punch a hole in the idea that the south seceded from the Union because they did not want to lose their slaves..

History lesson #1 (on this topic)

If slavery was the only crucial issue, the South had no reason to secede. The (first) 13th.. Amendment would have forever guaranteed the question in their favor. When they fired on Fort Sumter the south lost that proposed protection.

Now I know it is hard for some on here to connect the dots but think it through.

If slavery was still legal and not directly under threat, then why did the south secede?

Morgan

TEAM CALAWAY wrote:

There are innocent people that die in war. What is... (show quote)

What would a civil war accomplish? for what reason?

Morgan

ghostgotcha wrote:

Do you think it might have to do with all the propaganda the Yankees laid out during the war and all the promises they made to the black population for more, more and even more?
Yes they got cheep labor to clean their little babies butts and scrub their floors. It worked --

They got cheap labor, not as cheap as free.