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why do you think I am opposed to conservatives
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Jul 24, 2017 11:09:37   #
Jean Deaux
 
straightUp wrote:
We're not talking about Stalin... You said "Nixon just got caught. The Kennedys & Johnson did worse." What did Johnson and Kennedy do that was worse that ordering the carpet bombing of Cambodia to exterminate an entire population of people?

Sorry for not falling over for the typical conservative justification of crimes by pointing to worse examples. It just doesn't work on people who can see past the bullshit.
:


I'm so glad you brought LBJ up. He was the power monger that dreamed up the Gulf of Tonkin incident in which a non-existent American Destroyer was sunk (not) so as to be able to justify the VietNam war. He was also the shameless president that ordered the President of the Naval Inquiry Board regarding the USS Liberty that he WOULD find the cause of the attack to be mistaken identity in defiance of well over half the crew that went through the attack. His reasoning came clear with his statement that he "didn't give a damn if the ship was sunk, he was not going to embarrass an ally". I ask you, is that worse than carpet bombing a sovereign nation? Did it destroy an entire population of people or is that harmless liberal puffery? You can't see past the end of your nose, sherlock.

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Jul 24, 2017 11:18:18   #
nwtk2007 Loc: Texas
 
permafrost wrote:
These are pretty much the main reasons I can not become a conservative..

I'm absolutely open to conservative views!

Here's one I rather like: fiscal responsibility. Here's the problem, though: can you name the last Republican president to balance a budget? Hint: It wasn't Trump, either Bush, Reagan, Ford, or Nixon. Instead, the GOP has driven up spending, primarily on the military-industrial complex that Eisenhower warned us about.

Here's another one I like: keeping the federal government out of our personal lives. If you're lobbying for the federal government to tell people how to conduct their sexuality, you're in violation of this. The GOP has been bitterly cruel to the LGBT community. Also, the anti-abortion movement is not for personal freedom; it is for imposing your moral judgments on others.

In my estimation, conservatism went off the tracks in the 1980s as Reagan and others embraced the Religious Right. Increasingly, the conservative movement seems to be predicated on two very questionable premises: (1) Straight white Christian men are best suited to decide what's right for everyone in this country, and (2) unfettered capitalism always makes the world better.

But frankly, the biggest problem that I have with “modern” conservatism is its apparent immunity to scientific truths. If you think climate change is up for debate, you're scientifically illiterate. If you think evolutionary biology is up for debate, you're scientifically illiterate. And it's one thing to be ignorant, but if your ignorance shapes your policy, then I can't get on board your big dumb train.
These are pretty much the main reasons I can not b... (show quote)


1. fiscal responsibility - conservatives don't think able bodied people should get a free ride.

2. Conservatives don't think sexual orientation should merit special standing in our communities. We also don't think boys, no matter what they identify with, should be in the restrooms with our little girls and visa versa.

3. The anti-abortion position is a position on what conservatives view as murder, by those who don't practice "not getting pregnant over and over again."

4. I am scientifically literate. The current science on global warming, specifically its cause, is weak and not based upon good science. If you think it is, then YOU are scientifically illiterate.

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Jul 24, 2017 11:19:25   #
Loki Loc: Georgia
 
PeterS wrote:
Today CO2 is at 400 ppm and is the highest in over 800 thousand years. If there was more "ambient" CO2 during the last ice age I would need to see your link...

http://www.climatecentral.org/news/the-last-time-co2-was-this-high-humans-didnt-exist-15938


My point being that it has been this high before, when there were no humans. That is what I said. I will see about finding the link. Don't hold your breath, as I am tired of doing research over again. I posted it once already.
BTW, the surface temperature on Mars is rising. Shouldn't you be pestering those damn Martians about Martian-made global warming?

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Check out topic: The Fifty Dollar Lesson
Jul 24, 2017 11:21:23   #
eagleye13 Loc: Fl
 
Jean Deaux wrote:
:


I'm so glad you brought LBJ up. He was the power monger that dreamed up the Gulf of Tonkin incident in which a non-existent American Destroyer was sunk (not) so as to be able to justify the VietNam war. He was also the shameless president that ordered the President of the Naval Inquiry Board regarding the USS Liberty that he WOULD find the cause of the attack to be mistaken identity in defiance of well over half the crew that went through the attack. His reasoning came clear with his statement that he "didn't give a damn if the ship was sunk, he was not going to embarrass an ally". I ask you, is that worse than carpet bombing a sovereign nation? Did it destroy an entire population of people or is that harmless liberal puffery? You can't see past the end of your nose, sherlock.
: br br br I'm so glad you brought LBJ up. He wa... (show quote)


Thanks for taking the time to disclose LBJ's treason, Jean

"I'm so glad you brought LBJ up. He was the power monger that dreamed up the Gulf of Tonkin incident in which a non-existent American Destroyer was sunk (not) so as to be able to justify the VietNam war. He was also the shameless president that ordered the President of the Naval Inquiry Board regarding the USS Liberty that he WOULD find the cause of the attack to be mistaken identity in defiance of well over half the crew that went through the attack. His reasoning came clear with his statement that he "didn't give a damn if the ship was sunk, he was not going to embarrass an ally". I ask you, is that worse than carpet bombing a sovereign nation? Did it destroy an entire population of people or is that harmless liberal puffery? You can't see past the end of your nose, sherlock."

Survivor of Israeli Attack on USS Liberty: It Could Not Have Been a Mistake
https://youtu.be/LMzvgCLtCG8

The Attempted Sinking of the USS Liberty (in 1967)
https://youtu.be/bFcHJzUYE-o

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Jul 24, 2017 11:27:38   #
Big Bass
 
Loki wrote:
My point being that it has been this high before, when there were no humans. That is what I said. I will see about finding the link. Don't hold your breath, as I am tired of doing research over again. I posted it once already.
BTW, the surface temperature on Mars is rising. Shouldn't you be pestering those damn Martians about Martian-made global warming?


The temperature on Mars is rising? Oh, NO! Say it ain't so! That means global warming is infectious! Our sun is a variable star, and goes through these cycles.

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Jul 24, 2017 11:34:41   #
Loki Loc: Georgia
 
Big Bass wrote:
The temperature on Mars is rising? Oh, NO! Say it ain't so! That means global warming is infectious! Our sun is a variable star, and goes through these cycles.
img src="https://static.onepoliticalplaza.com/ima... (show quote)



Must be those no good Martian coal companies.

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Jul 24, 2017 11:38:35   #
crazylibertarian Loc: Florida by way of New York & Rhode Island
 
JW wrote:
Johnson did worse, Kennedy was OK... no one abused the Constitution like Nixon until Obama.


I disagree emphatically. FDR was a pioneer in trampling on the Constitution & using the power of the office against opponents.

He ordered the seizure of all privately held gold in the country, ordering G-men to seal every safe deposit box in every bank in the country sealed, only to be opened in the presence of a G-man to seize any gold in such storage.

He unilaterally ordered the cost of gold to be raised from $20.00 per ounce to $35.00 per ounce, effectively devaluing by about 42%, the life savings of every bank account holder in the country.

He ordered millions of gallons of milk seized and poured down sewers to raise the price of milk for farmers; this when
millions were starving.

He ordered the application for FCC relicensure of a small Midwest Catholic radio station be denied because it had been critical of his policies.

And FDR's crowning achievement might have been the internment of thousands of Japanese immigrants and Japanese-Americans. What a guy! He used the Alien & Sedition Acts of John Adams.

Harry Truman committed American troops to Korea without requesting authorization from Congress while it was in session. This was the precedent for all future military action, bypassing Congress.

Nixon's trangressions were like stealing a candy bar next to those two.

So, what was that now about no one abusing The Constitution worse than Nixon until Obama?

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Jul 24, 2017 11:51:54   #
crazylibertarian Loc: Florida by way of New York & Rhode Island
 
straightUp wrote:
Worse that ordering the genocide of 70,000 Cambodian civilians? I don't think so.



Nixon was trying to get us out of the quagmire that Kennedy & Johnson had committed us to. What was worse? Try the incineration of thousands of Japanese at Hiroshima & Nagasaki. Try the auto-genocide of between 1.5 & 2.5 million Cambodians after the Democratic Congress refused to authorize any more funding for military action in southeast Asia forcing our abandonment of people who'd befriended and supported us.

Viet-Nam was the fourth war of the twentieth century that Democrats got us into.

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Jul 24, 2017 11:55:04   #
eagleye13 Loc: Fl
 
You are right about FDR's stoogeness to the PTB/Banksters behind the scenes.

crazylibertarian wrote:
I disagree emphatically. FDR was a pioneer in trampling on the Constitution & using the power of the office against opponents.

He ordered the seizure of all privately held gold in the country, ordering G-men to seal every safe deposit box in every bank in the country sealed, only to be opened in the presence of a G-man to seize any gold in such storage.

He unilaterally ordered the cost of gold to be raised from $20.00 per ounce to $35.00 per ounce, effectively devaluing by about 42%, the life savings of every bank account holder in the country.

He ordered millions of gallons of milk seized and poured down sewers to raise the price of milk for farmers; this when
millions were starving.

He ordered the application for FCC relicensure of a small Midwest Catholic radio station be denied because it had been critical of his policies.

Harry Truman committed American troops to Korea without requesting authorization from Congress while it was in session. This was the precedent for all future military action, bypassing Congress.

Nixon's trangressions were like stealing a candy bar next to those two.

So, what was that now about no one abusing The Constitution worse than Nixon until Obama?
I disagree emphatically. FDR was a pioneer in tra... (show quote)

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Jul 24, 2017 12:04:19   #
Loki Loc: Georgia
 
crazylibertarian wrote:
Nixon was trying to get us out of the quagmire that Kennedy & Johnson had committed us to. What was worse? Try the incineration of thousands of Japanese at Hiroshima & Nagasaki. Try the auto-genocide of between 1.5 & 2.5 million Cambodians after the Democratic Congress refused to authorize any more funding for military action in southeast Asia forcing our abandonment of people who'd befriended and supported us.

Viet-Nam was the fourth war of the twentieth century that Democrats got us into.

It all gets so sticky when you start leveling accusations about wars, doesn't it?

And all you progressives and Democrats in this venue get a political erection over FDR.
Nixon was trying to get us out of the quagmire tha... (show quote)


The Council on Foreign relations, brainchild of "Colonel" House, the self-proclaimed Communist who was Woodrow Wilson's Chief of Staff, was a minor player in national politics until FDR was elected. By the end of FDR's third term, virtually every government or financial post of any importance was filled by a CFR member. This has continued on until now. While not all CFR members agree with the organization's often anti-US agenda, membership is pretty much a requirement to advance past a certain level in either politics or banking.

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Jul 24, 2017 12:04:24   #
JFlorio Loc: Seminole Florida
 
Damn. I knew we had a sex slave colony on Mars.
Loki wrote:
My point being that it has been this high before, when there were no humans. That is what I said. I will see about finding the link. Don't hold your breath, as I am tired of doing research over again. I posted it once already.
BTW, the surface temperature on Mars is rising. Shouldn't you be pestering those damn Martians about Martian-made global warming?

Reply
Jul 24, 2017 12:09:45   #
kankune Loc: Iowa
 
Jean Deaux wrote:
:

As long as queers keep it in the closet and don't flaunt their decadent behavior, I don't care. But don't harass my baker if he won't bake a cake for your repugnant lifestyle. That is his choice as much as your decision to bother him, knowing he won't acquiesce to your reprehensible request. It is called living with standards, something liberals absolutely hate. Liberals can live only with their own know best ideas and can't tolerate anything restrictive or traditional. It probably predates Moses coming down the mountain with the Ten Commandments only to find his flock had made a golden calf to worship since they couldn't stand any interference with their desires. Best to call it inherited liberal stupidity.
: br br As long as queers keep it in the closet a... (show quote)


Rock on Jean. Great post!

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Jul 24, 2017 12:43:32   #
EconomistDon
 
PeterS wrote:
The only reason that conservative's fight the notion of global warming is because they are terrified that it's going to cost them money. What they don't understand is that changing climate is going to cost them more money then if they took the steps to address it when we had the chance. My father in law lost well over 100K the last drought because he had to dump his herd of long horns and now he's in the process of replacing them and he's having to have to pay a premium. But talk about a carbon tax and he goes off on how GW isn't real etc, etc, etc. We can only fuk with mother nature so much because in the end she doesn't care if we are here or not.
The only reason that conservative's fight the noti... (show quote)


Pay attention to your father-in-law, Pete. Apparently, he is way smarter than you. Global warming will continue for another 100 years or more in the current solar cycle, and there is nothing you or anyone can do to stop it. I doubt that anyone has the ability to alter the sun's output. But don't get so fussed up about it. The earth was far warmer during the Roman Warm Period and the Medieval Warm Period, without the disastrous consequences that alarmist want you to fear. If you are really concerned, don't build near the ocean.

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Jul 24, 2017 13:00:02   #
lorddwarf Loc: Linden, Va
 
The primary premise, that Republicans and conservatives are the same, is demonstrably false ( see my post on "The Five Parties") which pretty much destroys your entire post. But, for the sake of discussion ...

Others have correctly answered the government spending issue; I can't add anything profound.

Both sides have framed the abortion issue as one of morality, "woman's right to choose" vs. "life of the unborn". And I would like examples of "bitter cruelty" to the LGBT community. I just can't see that making people use the bathroom of their birth gender qualifies as cruelty.

The two premises you site from the Reagan era may be questionable (including the fact that either premise is actually conservative belief) but that doesn't make them wrong. In fact, this country has performed pretty well throughout its history, being run by Christian white men and embracing capitalism. Continually dwelling on the flaws and failures may be food for your political base, but doesn't erase the actual history.

As to climate change, for most "skeptics", the issue is not whether the climate is changing. Of course it is, and always has. The issues are 1) How much of the current perceived change is due to human activity; 2) What are the best, most cost-efficient, least disruptive methods of dealing with it? As long as you "scientists" keep using the issue as a justification for massive wealth redistribution, the skepticism will remain.

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Jul 24, 2017 13:51:39   #
crazylibertarian Loc: Florida by way of New York & Rhode Island
 
EconomistDon wrote:
Pay attention to your father-in-law, Pete. Apparently, he is way smarter than you. Global warming will continue for another 100 years or more in the current solar cycle, and there is nothing you or anyone can do to stop it. I doubt that anyone has the ability to alter the sun's output. But don't get so fussed up about it. The earth was far warmer during the Roman Warm Period and the Medieval Warm Period, without the disastrous consequences that alarmist want you to fear. If you are really concerned, don't build near the ocean.
Pay attention to your father-in-law, Pete. Appare... (show quote)



To your comments about the Roman Warm Period and the Medieval Warm Period, you can add that from 1976-1978, in the northeast, I lived in Rhode Island at that time, we were hit with three horrible winters in a row, culminating in the Blizzard of '78 when we received an official 36 inches of snow in Providence and an unofficial 54 inches in many areas as well as 84 inches in the more rural and higher elevations. The skiers in the northeast loved it.

Those winters were followed by books hearkening the arrival of a new Ice Age with of how we had to get prepared. They were also followed by very mild ones and very low snowfalls.

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