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Calif. Drought, the Elephant in the Room
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Jan 28, 2014 05:56:20   #
Harpooner1
 
Brian Devon wrote:
California is experiencing the worst drought in its 163 year statehood. I live in Northern Calif. We have had exactly one day of rain the entire autumn and winter. There is very little Sierra Snowpack and Ski resorts are closing (this is January, not June).

For those who have been paying attention, man-caused carbon emissions have long been predicted to cause massive weather extremes around the world. It was not predicted that there would be universal warming. What was predicted was that there would be regional climate disasters. Climate prediction is an incredibly complex science, that involves numerous feedback loops related to
ocean current temperatures, ice pack, and too many other variables to list in this post.

What would be the big repercussions if the high pressure ridge, parked off the coast, doesn't budge?

1. It would be a disaster for all Californians. If California becomes a modern day dust bowl, the state's 38 million people would have to migrate to other states. Their departure would cause trillions of dollars in real estate value to evaporate. Many of the biggest U.S. banks would be ruined.

2. The cost of fruits and vegetables would rise dramatically for much of the U.S.

3. A California exile would dramatically raise demand for housing in other states and drive up their housing costs.

4. 38 million people departing from a very blue state will cause numerous red states to turn blue. Californians don't like living in extreme cold, so the southern "red" states would be the most appealing.

5. The population and financial dislocations would trigger a national depression, which would make the 1930s pale in comparison.

6. The high pressure ridge would cause Calif. bound rain to be routed up over the western mountains and cause flooding in much of the east. The climate disruption will actually cause more ice and snow (and paradoxically) cold events in the east. Like I said, feedback loops are complicated.

7. Conservatives in other states would do well to refrain from gloating. If the nation's boat develops a large hole, ALL of its passengers will get extremely soaked. "Do not ask for whom the bell tolls, it tolls for thee."

An endless sunny summer is fun...until its not...
California is experiencing the worst drought in it... (show quote)


Climate change? Global warming? Carbon emissions from human activity?
Guess what? before mankind made a " carbon footprint" the weather was changing constantly. So, we have a drought due to weather patterns. It will change and then you all will say "see. it's man made emissions.." C'mon. use your brains. Ask yourself..have there been ice ages? Why are there volcanoes we can't stop from spewing more gasses in one eruption than all industry and cars combined? Do you never ask these questions about the history of the earth, or do you just go by weather reports of the day? Seriously...I have seen droughts before in the Sierras ( I was a ski racer during the worst) and it was bad. Followed by a major dump. California is an arid state. It through proper use of water resources that it has become a " feeder". But, you get idiots that want to tear down dams and limit storage. You libs elect them and the rest of us pay...Thanks Libs!

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Jan 28, 2014 06:45:58   #
Retired669
 
Brian Devon wrote:
Yes. The latest archaelogical evidence confirms that the earth is only 6,000 year old. They have clear proof that Wilma and Fred Flintstone co-existed with T-Rex (the animal, not the rock band). On a more disturbing note, things are exactly as the conservatives feared. They have discovered the fossilized bones of Adam and Steve in the Garden of Eden.




Dandy! :thumbup: :thumbup: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

Reply
Jan 28, 2014 07:05:46   #
Harpooner1
 
Retired669 wrote:
Dandy! :thumbup: :thumbup: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:


Oh...Brian...You have to do better than that! I'm all for fun and games, but, I think you better take of the knickers and the diapers and go have a play at the loo...

Reply
 
 
Jan 28, 2014 07:38:13   #
Btfkr Loc: just outside the Mile High City
 
Billhuggins wrote:
Obama thinks te cold weather is caused by ma an he is using the EPA to kill the country. Wake up people.


sheesh. The epa and the discussion of global climate change have both been around a whole lot longer than Obama's presidency. you been living under a rock?

Reply
Jan 28, 2014 07:41:32   #
Btfkr Loc: just outside the Mile High City
 
Harpooner1 wrote:
Climate change? Global warming? Carbon emissions from human activity?
Guess what? before mankind made a " carbon footprint" the weather was changing constantly. So, we have a drought due to weather patterns. It will change and then you all will say "see. it's man made emissions.." C'mon. use your brains. Ask yourself..have there been ice ages? Why are there volcanoes we can't stop from spewing more gasses in one eruption than all industry and cars combined? Do you never ask these questions about the history of the earth, or do you just go by weather reports of the day? Seriously...I have seen droughts before in the Sierras ( I was a ski racer during the worst) and it was bad. Followed by a major dump. California is an arid state. It through proper use of water resources that it has become a " feeder". But, you get idiots that want to tear down dams and limit storage. You libs elect them and the rest of us pay...Thanks Libs!
Climate change? Global warming? Carbon emissions f... (show quote)


you are ever so welcome. now go away and race on some slats.

Reply
Jan 28, 2014 08:16:07   #
olsoljer Loc: ARIZONA
 
Brian Devon wrote:
California is experiencing the worst drought in its 163 year statehood. I live in Northern Calif. We have had exactly one day of rain the entire autumn and winter. There is very little Sierra Snowpack and Ski resorts are closing (this is January, not June).

For those who have been paying attention, man-caused carbon emissions have long been predicted to cause massive weather extremes around the world. It was not predicted that there would be universal warming. What was predicted was that there would be regional climate disasters. Climate prediction is an incredibly complex science, that involves numerous feedback loops related to
ocean current temperatures, ice pack, and too many other variables to list in this post.

What would be the big repercussions if the high pressure ridge, parked off the coast, doesn't budge?

1. It would be a disaster for all Californians. If California becomes a modern day dust bowl, the state's 38 million people would have to migrate to other states. Their departure would cause trillions of dollars in real estate value to evaporate. Many of the biggest U.S. banks would be ruined.

2. The cost of fruits and vegetables would rise dramatically for much of the U.S.

3. A California exile would dramatically raise demand for housing in other states and drive up their housing costs.

4. 38 million people departing from a very blue state will cause numerous red states to turn blue. Californians don't like living in extreme cold, so the southern "red" states would be the most appealing.

5. The population and financial dislocations would trigger a national depression, which would make the 1930s pale in comparison.

6. The high pressure ridge would cause Calif. bound rain to be routed up over the western mountains and cause flooding in much of the east. The climate disruption will actually cause more ice and snow (and paradoxically) cold events in the east. Like I said, feedback loops are complicated.

7. Conservatives in other states would do well to refrain from gloating. If the nation's boat develops a large hole, ALL of its passengers will get extremely soaked. "Do not ask for whom the bell tolls, it tolls for thee."

An endless sunny summer is fun...until its not...
California is experiencing the worst drought in it... (show quote)


Damn Brian, you have finally brought a subject up with a basis in reality. Putting politics aside (as much as possible) here is an answer to a problem that has been creeping up on the ENTIRE USA for quite some time.
We have droughts in our agricultural areas, while we have flooding in industrial and commercial areas.
If you will look north on your map of the USA, you have Oregon north of you. The Columbia River pours into the Pacific Ocean, fresh water wasted. Why not create a recovery of some of that water, by use of pipelines, pump stations and other techniques to redirect that water into existing waterways? Existing active waterways already have dams and therefore have storage capacity, and hydroelectric generators. You increase the water availability (maybe even cause water tables to rise again) have more water for irrigation, as well as increase the availability of clean electric production. Look at the water along our northern border that originates from Canada and the Arctic. Channel it to existing waterways and old waterways that can be modified (dams with hydroelectric generators) to hold that water in more lakes. Same with the Mississippi which usually floods areas up and down its length. Channel that water to the drought stricken middle west (corn and wheat areas). We have the technology to do this and it is vital to the continued existence of our nation - it would increase the agricultural output, available electricity, rebuild water tables, and assist in developing an expansion of currently arid but fertile land. Cattle would no longer have to sold during droughts because feed would no longer be expensive or unavailable. Think of the jobs that would be created, during construction as well as the resultant increase of employment for the increase of productivity and development. Who knows, food prices could even drop. Not to mention the increase in wildlife and sporting activities. Fishing, watersports, wildlife habitat, - possibilities endless as well as a more secure homeland.

Reply
Jan 28, 2014 08:18:19   #
olsoljer Loc: ARIZONA
 
olsoljer wrote:
Damn Brian, you have finally brought a subject up with a basis in reality. Putting politics aside (as much as possible) here is an answer to a problem that has been creeping up on the ENTIRE USA for quite some time.
We have droughts in our agricultural areas, while we have flooding in industrial and commercial areas.
If you will look north on your map of the USA, you have Oregon north of you. The Columbia River pours into the Pacific Ocean, fresh water wasted. Why not create a recovery of some of that water, by use of pipelines, pump stations and other techniques to redirect that water into existing waterways? Existing active waterways already have dams and therefore have storage capacity, and hydroelectric generators. You increase the water availability (maybe even cause water tables to rise again) have more water for irrigation, as well as increase the availability of clean electric production. Look at the water along our northern border that originates from Canada and the Arctic. Channel it to existing waterways and old waterways that can be modified (dams with hydroelectric generators) to hold that water in more lakes. Same with the Mississippi which usually floods areas up and down its length. Channel that water to the drought stricken middle west (corn and wheat areas). We have the technology to do this and it is vital to the continued existence of our nation - it would increase the agricultural output, available electricity, rebuild water tables, and assist in developing an expansion of currently arid but fertile land. Cattle would no longer have to sold during droughts because feed would no longer be expensive or unavailable. Think of the jobs that would be created, during construction as well as the resultant increase of employment for the increase of productivity and development. Who knows, food prices could even drop. Not to mention the increase in wildlife and sporting activities. Fishing, watersports, wildlife habitat, - possibilities endless as well as a more secure homeland.
Damn Brian, you have finally brought a subject up ... (show quote)


.....and you all could stay in California (sorry, couldn't resist that).

Reply
 
 
Jan 28, 2014 08:29:54   #
Puds Loc: So Centrl MN
 
In the mid west, we have drained half of our original wetlands. Climate change? An interruption of the hydro-logical cycle certainly. The Ogallalla aquifer has suffered
severe over use. We have contaminated our shallow aquifers
and are now contaminating our deeper sources. Prolonged
drought in south western Minnesota brought about the "Lewis and Clark" project of building a pipeline from the Missouri
River in South Dakota to SW Minnesota. To add to the fiscal
and environmental idiocy, it remains incomplete, terminating in a remote field short of the intended goal. The Great Lakes are below their historic levels, and there are now coliform bacteria alerts in Lake Superior resulting from incomplete sewage treatment. White Bear Lake in the northern Twin Cities is as much as 5 feet lower from unsustainable ground water withdrawal. Ethanol plants are allowed to "trade" phosphorous credits to be allowed excessive discharge. Conservation is compromised by members of both political parties in our parliament(s) of whores.
"Climate change?" The average citizen has been assaulted with allegations from both extremes and everywhere in between. But we ignore all of the warnings and our own observations of dwindling clean water sources. Our elected
and appointed officials have borrowed countless trillions of dollars to construct useless projects while we still dump
untreated or minimally treated sewage into our water ways.
Man made "climate change" has been rendered into an emotional confusion and served to conceal a far greater and
accelerating problem of unsustainable water usage.

Reply
Jan 28, 2014 09:36:52   #
vernon
 
saloopo wrote:
Excellent dissertation on the effects of global shifting. Although, I sense that the equator's movement is occurring at a much greater rate than either you or I suspect. To date, solution debates on equator shift have yielded nothing but circular arguments.

The Earth's axis shift is altogether another issue and can not be easily solved while government busies itself debating free birth control pills. If serious action is not taken soon, well,......it could turn EVERYTHING upside down!

The gulf stream shift? just outrageous! Having minimal knowledge of ocean current science, I think it best not to stick my toes into those waters.
Excellent dissertation on the effects of global sh... (show quote)


just what can any one do about the earths asis shifting.we will just go along for the ride.

Reply
Jan 28, 2014 10:20:10   #
Retired669
 
olsoljer wrote:
Damn Brian, you have finally brought a subject up with a basis in reality. Putting politics aside (as much as possible) here is an answer to a problem that has been creeping up on the ENTIRE USA for quite some time.
We have droughts in our agricultural areas, while we have flooding in industrial and commercial areas.
If you will look north on your map of the USA, you have Oregon north of you. The Columbia River pours into the Pacific Ocean, fresh water wasted. Why not create a recovery of some of that water, by use of pipelines, pump stations and other techniques to redirect that water into existing waterways? Existing active waterways already have dams and therefore have storage capacity, and hydroelectric generators. You increase the water availability (maybe even cause water tables to rise again) have more water for irrigation, as well as increase the availability of clean electric production. Look at the water along our northern border that originates from Canada and the Arctic. Channel it to existing waterways and old waterways that can be modified (dams with hydroelectric generators) to hold that water in more lakes. Same with the Mississippi which usually floods areas up and down its length. Channel that water to the drought stricken middle west (corn and wheat areas). We have the technology to do this and it is vital to the continued existence of our nation - it would increase the agricultural output, available electricity, rebuild water tables, and assist in developing an expansion of currently arid but fertile land. Cattle would no longer have to sold during droughts because feed would no longer be expensive or unavailable. Think of the jobs that would be created, during construction as well as the resultant increase of employment for the increase of productivity and development. Who knows, food prices could even drop. Not to mention the increase in wildlife and sporting activities. Fishing, watersports, wildlife habitat, - possibilities endless as well as a more secure homeland.
Damn Brian, you have finally brought a subject up ... (show quote)



I've thought along those same line for a long time. First look at which party that isn't interested in investing in our infrastructure. I believe Australia is building or it is done now one of the largest desalination plants in the world to take salt water and make fresh water out of it. With the ocean right next to California I don't see why the same thing couldn't be done in different parts of the state up and down the west coast. It would cost billions to make it possible but it's still cheaper than running out of water.

Reply
Jan 28, 2014 10:48:39   #
lpnmajor Loc: Arkansas
 
Retired669 wrote:
I've thought along those same line for a long time. First look at which party that isn't interested in investing in our infrastructure. I believe Australia is building or it is done now one of the largest desalination plants in the world to take salt water and make fresh water out of it. With the ocean right next to California I don't see why the same thing couldn't be done in different parts of the state up and down the west coast. It would cost billions to make it possible but it's still cheaper than running out of water.
I've thought along those same line for a long time... (show quote)


The problem with that is, it takes years to build such a plant. Most politicians are only interested in the next election. Doing something today, the results of which wouldn't be seen for 3 or 4 years, might get you elected/reelected ONCE. People will have forgotten about it by the next election cycle.
Politicians are marketers/ salesmen, you can't sell something no one will see for years, so don't do it. This water problem was known 20 years ago. Some steps were taken but they were short term fixes, and they KNEW they were. "just get me reelected until I retire and move to Florida" won out against " there will be people still here and in big trouble".

Reply
 
 
Jan 28, 2014 11:22:57   #
Retired669
 
lpnmajor wrote:
The problem with that is, it takes years to build such a plant. Most politicians are only interested in the next election. Doing something today, the results of which wouldn't be seen for 3 or 4 years, might get you elected/reelected ONCE. People will have forgotten about it by the next election cycle.
Politicians are marketers/ salesmen, you can't sell something no one will see for years, so don't do it. This water problem was known 20 years ago. Some steps were taken but they were short term fixes, and they KNEW they were. "just get me reelected until I retire and move to Florida" won out against " there will be people still here and in big trouble".
The problem with that is, it takes years to build ... (show quote)




Here's more about the plant in Australia..http://www.water-technology.net/projects/perth/...............There is also a number of articles about these type of plants on the net where I found this one. It looks like this one has been in business for several years...

If I remember correctly I may have seen this on the Discovery Channel or maybe on the program How It's Made. I seen it on the Dish Network last fall at our lake camp. I remember them boring huge tunnels under the oceans floor close to a mile off shore then joining them both together. Really interesting program to watch and while watching it I was thinking why don't we do that in our country to solve our water issues?

Reply
Jan 28, 2014 11:26:35   #
Puds Loc: So Centrl MN
 
http://earthsky.org/earth/heather-cooley-on-the-advantages-and-drawbacks-of-desalination

Reply
Jan 28, 2014 11:47:49   #
cold iron Loc: White House
 
AuntiE wrote:
Hmmm, let me think. California wants to talk about carbon emissions now. Hind sight is always excellent. :lol: :lol:



It may be that the lefts war on CO2 is working. It's -32 outside now. Good job.

Reply
Jan 28, 2014 11:52:33   #
Puds Loc: So Centrl MN
 
cold iron wrote:
It may be that the lefts war on CO2 is working. It's -32 outside now. Good job.


LOL. -17 when I went to work this AM at 05:00. If this doesn't improve, we'll need ice racing tires on the motorcycle.

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