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Separation of Church and State Unconstitutional--yes or no, why?
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Apr 17, 2017 12:53:24   #
ron vrooman Loc: Now OR, born NV
 
Nuclearian wrote:
It says right to have a gun is guaranteed. Reason why, doesn't matter.


you have a right to bear arms. that does not cover gun explicitly. weapon is another word to be careful of. then read your state constitution. then comprehend that the corporate governance that is enforcing the code,could give a shit about any of that. unless they are specifically and correctly told.

Reply
Apr 17, 2017 12:57:18   #
Raylan Wolfe Loc: earth
 


And yet, the fact remains!



Reply
Apr 17, 2017 13:08:14   #
ron vrooman Loc: Now OR, born NV
 
Raylan Wolfe wrote:
And yet, the fact remains!


He had some great script writers. and excellent directing from his kitchen cabinet.

Reply
Apr 17, 2017 13:53:37   #
Kazudy
 
My vote is ,YES unconstitutional. An example,SoCaS restricts freedom of religion. If the clergy informs it's flock that a candidate is in favor of abortion&homosexuality that clergy cannot endorse nor un endorse said candidate. Thus freedom of religion denied. Liberals love that. You must be one.

Reply
Apr 17, 2017 13:55:55   #
Larry the Legend Loc: Not hiding in Milton
 
lindajoy wrote:
I don't disagree the government is not entitled to our taxes but the reality is they take it and we can't do anything about it..


Of course you can do something about it. Simply withhold your consent to be taxed. It really is that simple. If you fill in a W-4 form each year, look toward the bottom, after all the 'numbers' stuff at box 7, it says:

"I claim exemption from withholding for 2017, and I certify that I meet both of the following conditions for exemption.
• Last year I had a right to a refund of all federal income tax withheld because I had no tax liability, and
• This year I expect a refund of all federal income tax withheld because I expect to have no tax liability.
If you meet both conditions, write “Exempt” here .................... <Box 7, write EXEMPT>"

See, filling out the exemptions and signing at the bottom grants your consent for the IRS, through your employer, to withhold taxes from each paycheck. A W-4 form is only valid for one year. If you do not sign one each year, then the payments you make are considered voluntary after that first year, and are not liabilities. Most employers have you sign a W-4 form at the beginning of your employment and don't bother after that. If that is the case, simply ask for a W-4 form, fill it out just by writing the word EXEMPT in box 7 and sign and date. Hand it back in and you're good to go. Next paycheck, no taxes withheld.

I did this 20 years ago and apart from one (somewhat 'scary') letter after the first year, I have been left in peace. There's nothing they can do and they know it. No more filing 1040 forms in the hope of getting 'something' back. No more looking at half your paycheck going to pay for someone's idea of 'democracy', just a more honest paycheck. There's a book written about this and some other little 'gotchas', you can read it here:

https://www.1215.org/lawnotes/sovereignty/errant-sovereign-handbook.pdf

OK, that's my good deed for the day, Enjoy!

Reply
Apr 17, 2017 14:10:13   #
no propaganda please Loc: moon orbiting the third rock from the sun
 
PeterS wrote:
In a meme Sessions in quoted as saying that separation of church and state is unconstitutional. I don't know if he really said it and it really doesn't matter as many Conservative Christians seem to think that way. I was just wondering what your opinion was and why. Myself, I think that if our country was intended to be free then the separation of church and state has to be constitutional as that is the only way for everyone in society to have the same opportunity for freedom.

So what do you think, is Jeff right or is he wrong. My vote is wrong, what is yours...
In a meme Sessions in quoted as saying that separa... (show quote)


what does your vote, or mine either have to do with the Constitution?

http://blog.hillsdale.edu/online-courses/did-the-founders-intend-to-separate-church-and-state
https://constitutionminute.hillsdale.edu/episode3

https://online.hillsdale.edu/document.doc?id=262

Reply
Apr 17, 2017 17:43:43   #
vettelover Loc: Richmond Va
 
Raylan Wolfe wrote:
And the fact remains that it is time, to put away childish things!


Sooooooo you believe in theory of "Nothing made Everything"?

Reply
Check out topic: Let’s take bets on Debate
Apr 17, 2017 17:56:59   #
Super Dave Loc: Realville, USA
 
free believer wrote:
You stated that the first amendment was to prevent religion and politics becoming "entwined". That means they are separate!

Of course there is a level of separation, in that they may not establish a single religion.

Reply
Apr 17, 2017 22:20:35   #
CounterRevolutionary
 
Larry the Legend wrote:
I'm still trying to find the clause in the constitution where it even mentions 'marriage', let alone some mandate to regulate, control, or otherwise interfere in the institution of marriage regardless of how anyone defines or describes it. Getting a license to marry is precisely the same thing as going to government and asking permission to marry. Without that permission slip, there will be no marriage, yet there is no delegation of power over marriage that I can find. How's that for a usurpation of power? There are many, but that certainly stands as a prime example.
I'm still trying to find the clause in the constit... (show quote)


Larry, actually you touched upon the real issue: "Without that permission slip, there will be no marriage, yet there is no delegation of power over marriage that I can find."

Here is that delegation of US power over religion, set by legal precedence in the Courts. This very issue was addressed back in 1878 where the Federal Government challenged polygamy in Utah. The case went to the Supreme Court:

Reynolds v. U.S.. Polygamy was banned because it was deemed a threat to families, mothers, children and society. The Court agreed to the First Amendment rights for freedom of religion, admitting it could not arrest people for thought crime, but - but -but, when people put into action specific religious practices that threatened other individuals, the law could step in and ban that threatening behavior.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reynolds_v._United_States

Reply
Apr 17, 2017 23:03:34   #
PeterS
 
CounterRevolutionary wrote:
Larry, actually you touched upon the real issue: "Without that permission slip, there will be no marriage, yet there is no delegation of power over marriage that I can find."

Here is that delegation of US power over religion, set by legal precedence in the Courts. This very issue was addressed back in 1878 where the Federal Government challenged polygamy in Utah. The case went to the Supreme Court:

Reynolds v. U.S.. Polygamy was banned because it was deemed a threat to families, mothers, children and society. The Court agreed to the First Amendment rights for freedom of religion, admitting it could not arrest people for thought crime, but - but -but, when people put into action specific religious practices that threatened other individuals, the law could step in and ban that threatening behavior.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reynolds_v._United_States
Larry, actually you touched upon the real issue: &... (show quote)

So what real issue was touched upon? What specific religious practices threaten individuals?

Reply
Apr 17, 2017 23:05:04   #
PeterS
 
Super Dave wrote:
Of course there is a level of separation, in that they may not establish a single religion.

So government can establish several religions? Is that what the founders wanted?

Reply
 
 
Apr 17, 2017 23:06:12   #
woodssprite 17
 
CounterRevolutionary wrote:
Larry, actually you touched upon the real issue: "Without that permission slip, there will be no marriage, yet there is no delegation of power over marriage that I can find."

Here is that delegation of US power over religion, set by legal precedence in the Courts. This very issue was addressed back in 1878 where the Federal Government challenged polygamy in Utah. The case went to the Supreme Court:

Reynolds v. U.S.. Polygamy was banned because it was deemed a threat to families, mothers, children and society. The Court agreed to the First Amendment rights for freedom of religion, admitting it could not arrest people for thought crime, but - but -but, when people put into action specific religious practices that threatened other individuals, the law could step in and ban that threatening behavior.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reynolds_v._United_States
Larry, actually you touched upon the real issue: &... (show quote)


Very interesting thank you for posting it.

Reply
Apr 17, 2017 23:07:29   #
PeterS
 
Larry the Legend wrote:
Of course you can do something about it. Simply withhold your consent to be taxed. It really is that simple. If you fill in a W-4 form each year, look toward the bottom, after all the 'numbers' stuff at box 7, it says:

"I claim exemption from withholding for 2017, and I certify that I meet both of the following conditions for exemption.
• Last year I had a right to a refund of all federal income tax withheld because I had no tax liability, and
• This year I expect a refund of all federal income tax withheld because I expect to have no tax liability.
If you meet both conditions, write “Exempt” here .................... <Box 7, write EXEMPT>"

See, filling out the exemptions and signing at the bottom grants your consent for the IRS, through your employer, to withhold taxes from each paycheck. A W-4 form is only valid for one year. If you do not sign one each year, then the payments you make are considered voluntary after that first year, and are not liabilities. Most employers have you sign a W-4 form at the beginning of your employment and don't bother after that. If that is the case, simply ask for a W-4 form, fill it out just by writing the word EXEMPT in box 7 and sign and date. Hand it back in and you're good to go. Next paycheck, no taxes withheld.

I did this 20 years ago and apart from one (somewhat 'scary') letter after the first year, I have been left in peace. There's nothing they can do and they know it. No more filing 1040 forms in the hope of getting 'something' back. No more looking at half your paycheck going to pay for someone's idea of 'democracy', just a more honest paycheck. There's a book written about this and some other little 'gotchas', you can read it here:

https://www.1215.org/lawnotes/sovereignty/errant-sovereign-handbook.pdf

OK, that's my good deed for the day, Enjoy!
Of course you can do something about it. Simply w... (show quote)

Something tells me Linda had a tax liability last year--after all, she is an honest hard working person...

Reply
Apr 17, 2017 23:21:34   #
lindajoy Loc: right here with you....
 
Larry the Legend wrote:
Of course you can do something about it. Simply withhold your consent to be taxed. It really is that simple. If you fill in a W-4 form each year, look toward the bottom, after all the 'numbers' stuff at box 7, it says:

"I claim exemption from withholding for 2017, and I certify that I meet both of the following conditions for exemption.
• Last year I had a right to a refund of all federal income tax withheld because I had no tax liability, and
• This year I expect a refund of all federal income tax withheld because I expect to have no tax liability.
If you meet both conditions, write “Exempt” here .................... <Box 7, write EXEMPT>"

See, filling out the exemptions and signing at the bottom grants your consent for the IRS, through your employer, to withhold taxes from each paycheck. A W-4 form is only valid for one year. If you do not sign one each year, then the payments you make are considered voluntary after that first year, and are not liabilities. Most employers have you sign a W-4 form at the beginning of your employment and don't bother after that. If that is the case, simply ask for a W-4 form, fill it out just by writing the word EXEMPT in box 7 and sign and date. Hand it back in and you're good to go. Next paycheck, no taxes withheld.

I did this 20 years ago and apart from one (somewhat 'scary') letter after the first year, I have been left in peace. There's nothing they can do and they know it. No more filing 1040 forms in the hope of getting 'something' back. No more looking at half your paycheck going to pay for someone's idea of 'democracy', just a more honest paycheck. There's a book written about this and some other little 'gotchas', you can read it here:

https://www.1215.org/lawnotes/sovereignty/errant-sovereign-handbook.pdf

OK, that's my good deed for the day, Enjoy!
Of course you can do something about it. Simply w... (show quote)


Thank You I'm going to check into this book as it's peaked my curiosity .,.

Unfortunately being self employed I'm not able to do as suggested but I still want to check it out.. Thank You, Larry...

Reply
Apr 18, 2017 00:11:07   #
PeterS
 


Nothing, my comment was directed at whether one thought Sessions was right or wrong. It was meant as an opinion poll nothing more.

Reply
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