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While Neil Gorsuch is Dangerous And Can't Be Trusted
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Mar 28, 2017 05:20:32   #
chuckybrass
 
Loki wrote:
Who is that? Did Al Franken and Diane Feinstein hook up and have a kid they named FrankenStein?


I think they made it with Franken's erector set.........LMAO

Reply
Mar 28, 2017 05:22:13   #
chuckybrass
 
lindajoy wrote:
Of course, law and morality are inseparable and morality serves as the basis for any legal/political system.... it is our morality of something that fashions any decision we make ... a law is a moral claim, a moral imperative, a moral justification...

Why would the vast majority of the society feel any sense of moral obligation to conform to the law’s that dictates? What is a legal norm if not a moral command, constraining the behavior of the citizens/residents, of whichever state/society, upon whom the law (moral code) is imposed?

Law is the mechanism (usually a set of norms/rules with corresponding sanctions) by which we define interpersonal relations. Morality is the categorization of human behaviors as “good” and “bad”, right???

And Law does not cease to be law based upon one or another moral criticisms, right?? It is after all made law based originally on the right or wrong of a moral interpretation or moral truth or authority....

Any moral claims, which claim to be objectively true, are false. There is no objective moral truth or authority in law. Following the laws as previously measured and made law is the objective evaluation used later in deterring or defending the validity of the law and to keep uniformity in the laws that govern all.. Not just a chosen selection, at least ideally..In other words once made law that is our moral foundation to follow and not allow exceptions.. if we did in effect we would be abrogating the very law we introduced..

That's where all the legal loop holes lay..
Of course, law and morality are inseparable and mo... (show quote)


Very well stated, Linda!

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Mar 28, 2017 05:22:33   #
Loki Loc: Georgia
 
chuckybrass wrote:
I think they made it with Franken's erector set.........LMAO

i just don't see it. Diane Feinstein? There isn't enough Viagra in the world.

Reply
Mar 28, 2017 05:25:43   #
ACP45 Loc: Rhode Island
 
jack sequim wa wrote:
America was under direct attack by a reconizable enemy. Even majority of the Japanese held understood and agreed.
It was not detention that was under question, it was the poor conditions and treatment, we LA ked the ability to "quickly " vet in 1940's

If Iran , Lebanon, and the Palestinian Authority attacked America, I would hope our government would detain every non vetted "Muslim " today.

Today with advanced technology we have advanced the ability to "vet", unlike the 40's.
America was under direct attack by a reconizable e... (show quote)

---------------------------
No offense Jack, but I'm glad you are not being nominated to the Supreme Court.

You forget one little matter. Our Bill of Rights, specifically the 4th Amendment which is supposed to protect citizens against unreasonable searches and seizure. Roosevelt authorized the deportation and incarceration with Executive Order 9066, but the Supreme Court never ruled on the issue of the incarceration of U.S. citizens without due process.

A lot of things can be justified in the interest of "national security". We have been fighting the "war on terror" since 2001, and my guess is that it will never end. There will always be some real or imagined "boggyman" out there that will enable the government to justify any action. My concern is that Neil Gorsuch will be a very capable "enabler" of the next government crackdown on our personal freedoms. After all, if you can condone torture because it is the law, just what type of government law or behavior is out of bounds anymore?

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Mar 28, 2017 05:47:58   #
ACP45 Loc: Rhode Island
 
chuckybrass wrote:
If you're searching for a judge that applies, try a church and seek Jesus. When you go to court, it is a place of deciding the law's judgments. In the court, you have legal and illegal. It is always nicer if the legal/illegal juncture falls at the crosspoint of right/wrong, but sometimes it just doesn't work that way. Right and wrong just don't always sit at the table of legality. It is to this end that you should actually like Gorsuch more, IMHO.

-------------------

ChuckyB..... you raise an important issue, namely the relationship between Law and Morality. Here is one explanation of the two:

"Law is an enactment made by the state. It is backed by physical coercion. Its breach is punishable by the courts. It represents the will of the state and realizes its purpose.

Laws reflect the political, social and economic relationships in the society. It determines rights and duties of the citizens towards one another and towards the state.

It is through law that the government fulfils its promises to the people. It reflects the sociological need of society.

Law and morality are intimately related to each other. Laws are generally based on the moral principles of society. Both regulate the conduct of the individual in society.

They influence each other to a great extent. Laws, to be effective, must represent the moral ideas of the people. But good laws sometimes serve to rouse the moral conscience of the people and create and maintain such conditions as may encourage the growth of morality.

Laws regarding prohibition and spread of primary education are examples of this nature. Morality cannot, as a matter of fact, be divorced from politics. The ultimate end of a state is the promotion of general welfare and moral perfection of man.

It is the duty of the state to formulate such laws as will elevate the moral standard of the people. The laws of a state thus conform to the prevailing standard of morality. Earlier writers on Political Science never made any distinction between law and morality.

Plato's Republic is as good a treatise on politics as on ethics. In ancient India, the term Dharma connoted both law and morality. Law, it is pointed out, is not merely the command of the sovereign, it represents the idea of right or wrong based on the prevalent morality of the people.

Moreover, obedi­ence to law depends upon the active support of the moral sentiments of the people. Laws which are not supported by the moral conscience of the people are liable to become dead letters.

I doubt this will clear up the issue. Many OPP'ers simply look at the law as the law. Period, end of story. Others, such as myself feel that sometimes a law does not reach a just conclusion, and that conscience and the interest of justice should take precedence. No easy answers here.

Reply
Mar 28, 2017 08:05:13   #
plainlogic
 
Politics and laws. It's rare to find a judge who follows laws to the exact context. Judges on the Supreme Court are suppose to interpret the laws and not opine on them as they do.

Gorsuch is being used as a political pawn, the liberals are using whatever means to destroy Trumps conservative pick. Unlike Obama who used his unobjective picks.

There were no riots, there were no smearing of Obama candidates by conservatives.

Many liberals here on OPP have very shallow comprehension of facts, facts that are indisputable. Many are not objective at all, like some Supreme court justices who have ruled by their own opinions.








ACP45 wrote:
-------------------

ChuckyB..... you raise an important issue, namely the relationship between Law and Morality. Here is one explanation of the two:

"Law is an enactment made by the state. It is backed by physical coercion. Its breach is punishable by the courts. It represents the will of the state and realizes its purpose.

Laws reflect the political, social and economic relationships in the society. It determines rights and duties of the citizens towards one another and towards the state.

It is through law that the government fulfils its promises to the people. It reflects the sociological need of society.

Law and morality are intimately related to each other. Laws are generally based on the moral principles of society. Both regulate the conduct of the individual in society.

They influence each other to a great extent. Laws, to be effective, must represent the moral ideas of the people. But good laws sometimes serve to rouse the moral conscience of the people and create and maintain such conditions as may encourage the growth of morality.

Laws regarding prohibition and spread of primary education are examples of this nature. Morality cannot, as a matter of fact, be divorced from politics. The ultimate end of a state is the promotion of general welfare and moral perfection of man.

It is the duty of the state to formulate such laws as will elevate the moral standard of the people. The laws of a state thus conform to the prevailing standard of morality. Earlier writers on Political Science never made any distinction between law and morality.

Plato's Republic is as good a treatise on politics as on ethics. In ancient India, the term Dharma connoted both law and morality. Law, it is pointed out, is not merely the command of the sovereign, it represents the idea of right or wrong based on the prevalent morality of the people.

Moreover, obedi­ence to law depends upon the active support of the moral sentiments of the people. Laws which are not supported by the moral conscience of the people are liable to become dead letters.

I doubt this will clear up the issue. Many OPP'ers simply look at the law as the law. Period, end of story. Others, such as myself feel that sometimes a law does not reach a just conclusion, and that conscience and the interest of justice should take precedence. No easy answers here.
------------------- br br ChuckyB..... you raise ... (show quote)

Reply
Mar 28, 2017 09:53:05   #
Roseland Loc: Florida
 
ACP45 wrote:
Watch from 18:10 thru 22:25
https://youtu.be/BNWd75Qdffs?t=18m10s

Add to this, his decision in the frozen trucker case, and I'm convinced that the man lacks a sense of compassion and a warped sense of morality.

https://youtu.be/iPhRSZ-xE5M
http://talkingpointsmemo.com/dc/gorsuch-defends-frozen-trucker-case

======================
Ladies and Gentlemen:

Please don't read FAKE NEWS. IT WILL POISON YOUR MINDS.
News reporting from MSM, all liberals and democrats, are poison to the minds and hearts of honest and decent Conservatives and Republicans.

MSM all democrat/progressive/liberal reporters have lost their ethics in journalism. They create lies, fake news, twist facts, for POLITICAL reasons to satisfy their political liberal agenda.

My fellow Americans, you are far better than them. Avoid them, and follow the truth and righteousness. It will bring you peace, joy, and gladness of heart, the Christian ways.

Judge Neil Gorsuch is the BEST PROMISE OF THE TRUE JUSTICE AT THE SC. He is a Carbon Copy of the Judge Antonin Scalia. We missed him, and must be replaced by the great Justice Gorsuch. May God bless him and our country.

Reply
Check out topic: OMG we all heard it
Mar 28, 2017 10:36:20   #
eagleye13 Loc: Fl
 
ACP45 wrote:
-------------------

ChuckyB..... you raise an important issue, namely the relationship between Law and Morality. Here is one explanation of the two:

"Law is an enactment made by the state. It is backed by physical coercion. Its breach is punishable by the courts. It represents the will of the state and realizes its purpose.

Laws reflect the political, social and economic relationships in the society. It determines rights and duties of the citizens towards one another and towards the state.

It is through law that the government fulfils its promises to the people. It reflects the sociological need of society.

Law and morality are intimately related to each other. Laws are generally based on the moral principles of society. Both regulate the conduct of the individual in society.

They influence each other to a great extent. Laws, to be effective, must represent the moral ideas of the people. But good laws sometimes serve to rouse the moral conscience of the people and create and maintain such conditions as may encourage the growth of morality.

Laws regarding prohibition and spread of primary education are examples of this nature. Morality cannot, as a matter of fact, be divorced from politics. The ultimate end of a state is the promotion of general welfare and moral perfection of man.

It is the duty of the state to formulate such laws as will elevate the moral standard of the people. The laws of a state thus conform to the prevailing standard of morality. Earlier writers on Political Science never made any distinction between law and morality.

Plato's Republic is as good a treatise on politics as on ethics. In ancient India, the term Dharma connoted both law and morality. Law, it is pointed out, is not merely the command of the sovereign, it represents the idea of right or wrong based on the prevalent morality of the people.

Moreover, obedi­ence to law depends upon the active support of the moral sentiments of the people. Laws which are not supported by the moral conscience of the people are liable to become dead letters.

I doubt this will clear up the issue. Many OPP'ers simply look at the law as the law. Period, end of story. Others, such as myself feel that sometimes a law does not reach a just conclusion, and that conscience and the interest of justice should take precedence. No easy answers here.
------------------- br br ChuckyB..... you raise ... (show quote)


"Others, such as myself feel that sometimes a law does not reach a just conclusion, and that conscience and the interest of justice should take precedence. No easy answers here." - ACP45

That is why our founding fathers gave us a jury and grand jury system to hopefully overcome Bad Law, and a bad government.
The Grand jury was not to be used as a rubber stamp for the PTB. It can be used that way though.
It comes down to individual liberty verses the collective power.
'The Law' by Frederic Bastiat, was the best book I ever read in support of individual liberty.

Reply
Mar 28, 2017 10:39:29   #
eagleye13 Loc: Fl
 
Roseland wrote:
======================
Ladies and Gentlemen:

Please don't read FAKE NEWS. IT WILL POISON YOUR MINDS.
News reporting from MSM, all liberals and democrats, are poison to the minds and hearts of honest and decent Conservatives and Republicans.

MSM all democrat/progressive/liberal reporters have lost their ethics in journalism. They create lies, fake news, twist facts, for POLITICAL reasons to satisfy their political liberal agenda.

My fellow Americans, you are far better than them. Avoid them, and follow the truth and righteousness. It will bring you peace, joy, and gladness of heart, the Christian ways.

Judge Neil Gorsuch is the BEST PROMISE OF THE TRUE JUSTICE AT THE SC. He is a Carbon Copy of the Judge Antonin Scalia. We missed him, and must be replaced by the great Justice Gorsuch. May God bless him and our country.
====================== br Ladies and Gentlemen: br... (show quote)


Neil Gorsuch is a no brainer for those that want the Constitution followed. Probably a last chance for that.

Reply
Mar 28, 2017 10:40:47   #
padremike Loc: Phenix City, Al
 
ACP45 wrote:
Watch from 18:10 thru 22:25
https://youtu.be/BNWd75Qdffs?t=18m10s

Add to this, his decision in the frozen trucker case, and I'm convinced that the man lacks a sense of compassion and a warped sense of morality.

https://youtu.be/iPhRSZ-xE5M
http://talkingpointsmemo.com/dc/gorsuch-defends-frozen-trucker-case


You say, "He lacks a sense of compassion and a warped sense of morality" while you hypocritical bastards daily participate in the most horrendous holocaust in the entire history of humanity with the lawful premeditated dismemberment murder of unborn children. 85 or so million of them thus far in America, home of the ........ and land of the? That's not warped by your dead reckoning? Then to prove how "moral" you are you put your imprimatur to homosexuality, to their marriage, to every known hedonistic practice ever known to mankind. Gorsuch is a saint compared to any of your murderous degenerate mob.

Reply
Mar 28, 2017 14:13:10   #
Larry the Legend Loc: Not hiding in Milton
 
ACP45 wrote:
Watch from 18:10 thru 22:25
https://youtu.be/BNWd75Qdffs?t=18m10s

Add to this, his decision in the frozen trucker case, and I'm convinced that the man lacks a sense of compassion and a warped sense of morality.

https://youtu.be/iPhRSZ-xE5M
http://talkingpointsmemo.com/dc/gorsuch-defends-frozen-trucker-case


A good judge makes his determinations based on the body of the law then in existence, not on some personal 'feelings'; how others may 'like' the decision or on the basis of some agenda-driven crusade. These are simply examples of a judge applying legal principles under very difficult circumstances and sticking to the basic tenets of his function as a judge. These rulings are based on the law, not feelings of 'compassion' or 'morality'. The law is neither compassionate or moral. There is a reason why Lady Justice is blindfolded, have you never noticed?



Reply
Mar 28, 2017 14:16:48   #
eagleye13 Loc: Fl
 
Larry the Legend wrote:
A good judge makes his determinations based on the body of the law then in existence, not on some personal 'feelings'; how others may 'like' the decision or on the basis of some agenda-driven crusade. These are simply examples of a judge applying legal principles under very difficult circumstances and sticking to the basic tenets of his function as a judge. These rulings are based on the law, not feelings of 'compassion' or 'morality'. The law is neither compassionate or moral. There is a reason why Lady Justice is blindfolded, have you never noticed?
A good judge makes his determinations based on the... (show quote)


Gorsuch or bust!!!!

Reply
Mar 28, 2017 14:26:17   #
Larry the Legend Loc: Not hiding in Milton
 
eagleye13 wrote:
Gorsuch or bust!!!!


Ordinarily, I wouldn't bother replying to such drivel, but sometimes I feel the need to step on a few bugs, you know?

Reply
Mar 28, 2017 15:26:59   #
RETW Loc: Washington
 
ACP45 wrote:
-------------------
Thank you. I could not have said this any better.




I know that passion runs high on this nominee Judge Gorsuch. But it seems to me most folks are over thinking this decision to install Judge Gorsuch as the next Supreme Court Judge. As I have stated, I have concerns as well about his decision in the Frozen trucker case. But lets not lose sight of what we are, or should be, looking at.

One .... I believe to be wrong, decision, in a 20 year span of holding the balancing scale up-right, does not make a bad judge.

Personally, I believe that Judge Gorsuch will make a fine Supreme Court Judge.

I am also convinced, there is no one alive that is without fault. Our lord has said, " let them that have no fault, cast the first stone ".

Seems to me, the ones that wish to cast the first stone, should first look at there own works and deeds.

So please, if there is any one on OPP that feels they are entitled to through the first stone, buy all means let me know.

And as a side note. The Trucker was in constant communication with dispatch. So if he was in fear for his very life, to the point of thinking, if he fell, he would not get back up again, which he clearly did.
Why than did he not call 911 long before he got to that point? Hummmmmmmm.


RETW

Reply
Mar 28, 2017 15:38:10   #
robmull Loc: florida
 
lindajoy wrote:
Thank You, was going to say something similar but not needed given your concise recitation..

I believe he will make an excellent SC Judge..
If they filibuster, which they will just for paybacks in not letting BO have his choice, then no more waiting it out~~ go with the nuclear option and let's get moving ❗️






Like Rush Limbaugh, LJ, {HI}, Hon. Gorsuch, "ties half-his-brain behind his back just to make it fair." You can see the wheels of total incredulity spinning in Honorable Gorsuch's head when these "loony/Jackasses" (D), are questioning him on areas of the law that should-have-stayed in the SNL scripts. GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO REP. TREY GOWDY (R); and, GOOOOOOOOOOOO PRESIDENT "45" DONALD J. TRUMP (R); JUST LIKE THE WEATHER!!!

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