The following is from a PM conversation I had with another poster. After thinking about it, I decided to post it where all the world can read it.

I prefer that you do not respond; you need to think about it before responding with blatant feelings of superiority. I may, however, add to it from time to time.

It is this:

I've heard that before, American women who marry Muslims. It is something a woman should know about the Muslim culture BEFORE she marries into it. I believe that in many of the Muslim countries the male dominance of the family is getting less severe. It is something that needs to change gradually. Women in Muslim countries are becoming less dependent on their men and are taking active roles in government, business and education. Of course, the American culture of matriarchy that has developed over the last few decades is not good for society either.

The decadence in American society, is anathema to Muslims. I don't blame them much for that. Last week I had lunch at a Middle Eastern restaurant, run by a Christian Arab, born in Baghdad, who had lived in Aleppo the last few years, but immigrated to America. Her TV was tuned to an Arab channel--from Lebanon, I believe. The music videos showing weren't much different from something you might see Beyonce in. I don't wonder that Muslims who are true to their faith are worried.


And:

I take it then that you have never discussed religion with a Muslim.

Mohammed was able to take a pagan and animistic culture, probably when all is said and done, worse even than the Canaanites of Biblical history in its attention to ritual and dark demons, and convince them to "submit to the one God"; something neither Christianity nor Judaism could do. So I say: "Quite an accomplishment, Mohammed!"

Allah enjoined those proud, passionate Arabs, AT THAT TIME, to eliminate any "unbelievers"---the pagans and animists, not the "Children of the Book" (Christians and Jews, who were NOT considered "unbelievers")---if they would not profess a belief in one God: Allah. The same goal God wanted King Saul to accomplish in the land of Canaan. That the Arabs conquered many lands after that was due to man's interpretation, (and probably that passionate nature of the Arabs), not God/Allah. The whole world can not and should not be Muslim, any more than it should be Christian, or Jewish, or Buddhist, etc. Islam has made great contributions to art and science and literature, but especially medicine, and more, before the Near and Middle East became stagnant, not because of their religion, but because of empire---the Ottoman empire---a Turkish people, not Arabic. All empires eventually decay. Even the Roman empire, which was Christian at the time of its fall.

But until Christians lose their arrogance, bias and fears, they will never believe there is any good in Islam at all. There is no point in discussion.

I have never said I was Christian, nor am I Muslim. But I can find some good in every religion (except those based on magic and ritual, not on reality). Just as I can find some bad.

For instance, my favorite hadith of the prophet Mohammed is this:

Someone asked him (keep in mind that full acceptance of the one God, Allah, hadn't been completed) if he should tether his camel or trust in Allah. Mohammed replied, after a few moment's thought: "First tether your camel, then trust in God". He was teaching personal responsibility to a people who probably relied on offerings, ritual and sacrifice to MANY gods to accomplish their goal: control of their environment. Muslims find it hard to relate to Christianity, which is seen as the worship of more than one god.

Hedge, I agree with most of what you posted. The two societies that allowed their people to have freedom go religion were both Muslim, Muslim Spain and the Ottoman empire under Sulieman the great. This freedom of religion came at a time when Christian Europe allowed their citizens to be only Christian and often burned Muslims and Jews at the stake for their religious beliefs. It is also true that that Muslim civilization was far superior to Christian Europe in science and math, and art, until the renaissance.

The following is from a PM conversation I had with another poster. After thinking about it, I decided to post it where all the world can read it.

I prefer that you do not respond; you need to think about it before responding with blatant feelings of superiority. I may, however, add to it from time to time.

It is this:

I've heard that before, American women who marry Muslims. It is something a woman should know about the Muslim culture BEFORE she marries into it. I believe that in many of the Muslim countries the male dominance of the family is getting less severe. It is something that needs to change gradually. Women in Muslim countries are becoming less dependent on their men and are taking active roles in government, business and education. Of course, the American culture of matriarchy that has developed over the last few decades is not good for society either.

The decadence in American society, is anathema to Muslims. I don't blame them much for that. Last week I had lunch at a Middle Eastern restaurant, run by a Christian Arab, born in Baghdad, who had lived in Aleppo the last few years, but immigrated to America. Her TV was tuned to an Arab channel--from Lebanon, I believe. The music videos showing weren't much different from something you might see Beyonce in. I don't wonder that Muslims who are true to their faith are worried.


And:

I take it then that you have never discussed religion with a Muslim.

Mohammed was able to take a pagan and animistic culture, probably when all is said and done, worse even than the Canaanites of Biblical history in its attention to ritual and dark demons, and convince them to "submit to the one God"; something neither Christianity nor Judaism could do. So I say: "Quite an accomplishment, Mohammed!"

Allah enjoined those proud, passionate Arabs, AT THAT TIME, to eliminate any "unbelievers"---the pagans and animists, not the "Children of the Book" (Christians and Jews, who were NOT considered "unbelievers")---if they would not profess a belief in one God: Allah. The same goal God wanted King Saul to accomplish in the land of Canaan. That the Arabs conquered many lands after that was due to man's interpretation, (and probably that passionate nature of the Arabs), not God/Allah. The whole world can not and should not be Muslim, any more than it should be Christian, or Jewish, or Buddhist, etc. Islam has made great contributions to art and science and literature, but especially medicine, and more, before the Near and Middle East became stagnant, not because of their religion, but because of empire---the Ottoman empire---a Turkish people, not Arabic. All empires eventually decay. Even the Roman empire, which was Christian at the time of its fall.

But until Christians lose their arrogance, bias and fears, they will never believe there is any good in Islam at all. There is no point in discussion.

I have never said I was Christian, nor am I Muslim. But I can find some good in every religion (except those based on magic and ritual, not on reality). Just as I can find some bad.

For instance, my favorite hadith of the prophet Mohammed is this:

Someone asked him (keep in mind that full acceptance of the one God, Allah, hadn't been completed) if he should tether his camel or trust in Allah. Mohammed replied, after a few moment's thought: "First tether your camel, then trust in God". He was teaching personal responsibility to a people who probably relied on offerings, ritual and sacrifice to MANY gods to accomplish their goal: control of their environment. Muslims find it hard to relate to Christianity, which is seen as the worship of more than one god.

The following is from a PM conversation I had with another poster. After thinking about it, I decided to post it where all the world can read it.

I prefer that you do not respond; you need to think about it before responding with blatant feelings of superiority. I may, however, add to it from time to time.

It is this:

I've heard that before, American women who marry Muslims. It is something a woman should know about the Muslim culture BEFORE she marries into it. I believe that in many of the Muslim countries the male dominance of the family is getting less severe. It is something that needs to change gradually. Women in Muslim countries are becoming less dependent on their men and are taking active roles in government, business and education. Of course, the American culture of matriarchy that has developed over the last few decades is not good for society either.

The decadence in American society, is anathema to Muslims. I don't blame them much for that. Last week I had lunch at a Middle Eastern restaurant, run by a Christian Arab, born in Baghdad, who had lived in Aleppo the last few years, but immigrated to America. Her TV was tuned to an Arab channel--from Lebanon, I believe. The music videos showing weren't much different from something you might see Beyonce in. I don't wonder that Muslims who are true to their faith are worried.


And:

I take it then that you have never discussed religion with a Muslim.

Mohammed was able to take a pagan and animistic culture, probably when all is said and done, worse even than the Canaanites of Biblical history in its attention to ritual and dark demons, and convince them to "submit to the one God"; something neither Christianity nor Judaism could do. So I say: "Quite an accomplishment, Mohammed!"

Allah enjoined those proud, passionate Arabs, AT THAT TIME, to eliminate any "unbelievers"---the pagans and animists, not the "Children of the Book" (Christians and Jews, who were NOT considered "unbelievers")---if they would not profess a belief in one God: Allah. The same goal God wanted King Saul to accomplish in the land of Canaan. That the Arabs conquered many lands after that was due to man's interpretation, (and probably that passionate nature of the Arabs), not God/Allah. The whole world can not and should not be Muslim, any more than it should be Christian, or Jewish, or Buddhist, etc. Islam has made great contributions to art and science and literature, but especially medicine, and more, before the Near and Middle East became stagnant, not because of their religion, but because of empire---the Ottoman empire---a Turkish people, not Arabic. All empires eventually decay. Even the Roman empire, which was Christian at the time of its fall.

But until Christians lose their arrogance, bias and fears, they will never believe there is any good in Islam at all. There is no point in discussion.

I have never said I was Christian, nor am I Muslim. But I can find some good in every religion (except those based on magic and ritual, not on reality). Just as I can find some bad.

For instance, my favorite hadith of the prophet Mohammed is this:

Someone asked him (keep in mind that full acceptance of the one God, Allah, hadn't been completed) if he should tether his camel or trust in Allah. Mohammed replied, after a few moment's thought: "First tether your camel, then trust in God". He was teaching personal responsibility to a people who probably relied on offerings, ritual and sacrifice to MANY gods to accomplish their goal: control of their environment. Muslims find it hard to relate to Christianity, which is seen as the worship of more than one god.