Morgan

Getting back to our two older questions, mine was...was it Adam who tempted Eve, if he was Satan, and Susan answered yes, you than asked Susan and I...quote: Who is Adam

Adam is:

A) Serpent
B) Man
C) Woman

I would now have to say... he was man, but he was NOT the one who tempted Eve. In the light of the Jewish perspective, I would have to answer my own question, it was Eve who tempted Eve, and that makes all the sense in the world. It was her own temptation of wanting the apple, her own selfish need of wanting to taste the forbidden fruit. Had God intentionally created that one deal breaker in order for us to enter into our very real and physical world, in order that we may strive for a deeper spiritual growth.???

tradexpertbuysell

Good analysis Morgan and there are many other aspects or rather details of man's fall I would like to review here with both you and Sue.

But first allow me as Rush Limbaugh would say "set the table".

Before man was created according to creationist Kent Hovind PHd, education, God had created more or less every thing that was.

But according to same, after he created Adam, but before he took from Adam the rib to make Eve God in Adam's presence created certain trees along perhaps certain animals and had Adam not only witness his creation but name the animals.

Now before Eve was formed, God introduced Adam to the tree of good and evil and in the original Hebrew tongue translation said the following:

But before I do that let me emphasize that this is not the Vulgate, Latin, KJV or Geneva translation but as close to the original writing as validated by the Dead Sea scrolls discoveries around the time of Israel's rebirth of a nation as follows:
"...Eden in-garden-of you-may-eat to-eat the-garden tree-of from-any-of to-say the-man to God for from-any-of you-must-eat not and-evil good the-knowledge but-from-tree-of God Yahweh and-he-said you-will-die to-die from-him to-eat-you "

Then the translation goes on to "in-day-of to-suit-him helper"

Now contrast what Eve answers to Satan with as follows in the original Hebrew tongue...In response to Satan's question:

Please note she adds something curious that God never said;

"the-serpant to the-woman and-she-said the-garden tree-of in-middle-of that the-tree but-from-tree-of we-may-eat the-garden tree-of you-must-touch and-NOT from-him you-must-eat NOT"

Woops!!! Morgan..I'm going to have to break here...This is going to take longer than I thought and I have to go to work now...but study what I am giving you here. Please let it sink in that the curious addition that Eve gave that God never said was about touching and I promise to get back with you later today.

Whew!!! Heavy stuff! Right? Lol!

susanblange Loc: USA

I think "eating" the fruit mainly means engaging in the forbidden sexual act. Eve "gave" this to Adam. Milk is the fruit of the Tree of Life and semen is the fruit of the Tree of Knowledge. Eve could've spit and not swallowed, but it doesn't make any difference. A&E were given two commandments, both concerning sex, one positive and one negative. The positive command was to be fruitful and multiply, and the negative one was no sodomy. You cannot become pregnant by committing sodomy.

susanblange Loc: USA

It says in the NT that the parables Jesus spoke were only to be understood by his disciples. The meaning of these parables were veiled and hidden from the general populace deliberately. There are two types of Christians. There are those who try to emulate Jesus and be righteous, then there are those who figure he died for their sin so the greater the sin, the greater the sacrifice. They are strengthened in their wickedness. Ezekiel 13:22. Judaism also promises the wicked life. They believe you can only spend up to twelve months in Hell, and then you will go to Heaven. Like Christianity, this is also a dangerous belief.

susanblange Loc: USA

The Hebrew word for serpent is nachash and it also means "man". Eve was tempted by her desire for Adam. Genesis 3:16. "...and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee". Genesis 3:6. "And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her, and he did eat". Eve gained wisdom from partaking of the tree and fruit. Adam gained a curse and a death sentence. Wisdom is called a tree of life, Proverbs 3:18.

Zemirah Loc: Sojourner En Route...

If someone dishonestly calls a fellow debater an ¨abuser¨ with the intent of silencing that fellow forum member as Dave attempted to do to me, it is indeed Excellent when he announces he is discontinuing that pursuit.

Excellent is NOT, nor has it ever been an evil word with a malicious intention.

God forbid anyone on a forum be exposed to such a threatening concept.

¨Excellent¨ is not the type of retort that, when encountered, requires a safe place in which to cower, - unless those who encounter the word are among the young who are unfortunately brainwashed into this generation´s self-victimizational concept which has been created by political correctness.

I have no quarrel with anyone on the online OPP, nor will I allow myself to be drug into one by manipulative maneuvering on the part of the self-absorbed and self-promoting.

This is a place to express one´s opinion and to present facts, and not to relegate yourselves into the children´s corner.

When being misjudged or mischaracterized becomes part of that exchange, we all have a right to defend ourselves.

tradexpertbuysell

Abuser is indeed a bad choice of words and for that please accept my apologies.

This is no justification but in need to mention that I was responding to your one inference or inuendo that my homeless friend and I were a cult. So please allow me to attempt to take you off the hook and not besmirch you.

That was not my intent. Abrasive would have been a better choice of words. I am confident that you are not and I repeat clearly for the record NOT an abusive person, but it was my impression in the heat of the moment perceived with the cult charge to make me feel bad and in all honesty it also did in all honesty actually shock me as well. That is precisely the way you made me feel and one can never argue with another person's feelings.

So please accept my humble apologies.

And let us part as friends and not as enemies.

Love your humble servant in Christ,

David

Morgan

I have to ask, why would you think Adam and Eve would have engaged in forbidden sex acts? As far as I know nothing was forbidden in paradise except to eat the apple. It seems quite a jump from not eating the apple from the tree of life, to sodomy. When were they given the command to multiply, why would the command come after they left the Garden of Eden and not before, before it was made to be painful?

tradexpertbuysell

To be fruitful means a good looking woman or a hunk of a man. And I don't mean a playboy centerfold or a Sylvester Stallone. Just someone that fills the other mate's eyes.

To multiply is usually the end result of such a union into one flesh that also comes with terrible responsibility and often sacrifice pain and sorrow. Be the actual offsprings of a spiritual or physical nature.

When Christ said that in heaven no one would be given in marriage did that really mean there would be no sex after death?

I wonder...😂😎😇

susanblange Loc: USA

In Genesis 1:28 God commanded them to "be fruitful and multiply". Sexual sin is Adam's main shtick, he's a sex offender. He's a rapist, a sodomite, and a pedophile. It's a messianic prophecy that the Messiah's mother would not experience labor pain when the Messiah is born. He is the "one seed" of Eve and he will bruise the head of the serpent. Genesis 3:15 sums up the Bible. God does not view the world as male or female, black or white, Jew or Gentile. God views the world as wicked or righteous and both come in all races, creeds, and colors. The wicked are the seed of Adam, and the righteous are the seed of Eve. The main reason bad things happen to good people is because the wicked hate the righteous and because of that they do evil things to the righteous.

susanblange Loc: USA

I do not believe there is sex in Heaven. Spiritual bodies do not contain organs, those are earthly creations. Sex is "of the flesh". Didn't Jesus say the 144,000 saved would be virgins?

tradexpertbuysell

Yep...But the resurrected body of Christ also was hungry and asked his disciples for something to eat.

Still wondering 😀😎😇

Morgan

I disagree, the word, excellent can most assuredly be used as a malicious intent, when followed by the misgivings stated by another. It is mean spirited. With that said, there can be justified or understandable reasons for it, but still the negative intention is there, and it does exist.

I agree when being criticized in any form of offense it changes the entire relationship of the conversation, I try and avoid it, yet at times one feels compelled to reciprocate in the same manner.

To get back on track, let us start anew, I appreciate what you have to say, you are very informative. I find myself agreeing with most of what you've said and also that quotes are better off complete in order to avoid possible misinterpretation, but I also understand Dave wanting to address some particular points.

Morgan

If God made man as a reflection of himself do you really think he would create a man who was a rapist, sodomite, or pedophile. Where did you get this from in the bible? For him to be a pedophile he would have had to done that to his own sons, is that what you really believe????

I do not believe that we are born wicked, as some do as yourself assume. Your perception is a sad one, this is not stated to offend, it is a very negative outlook. Wickedness is a learned condition or a sickness of the mind and not of Adams seed. This is jmo.

Morgan

I'm afraid you lost me there, who's on first, what's on second.... you wanna fill me in