Chanita

John and Pennylyn:
There is actually another even simpler problem with quiting straight verses. There are contradictions in the bible. For instance Abram (before his name change) is told his descendants will spend 400 years as strangers in a strange land. Yet when they leave Egypt the bible says 430 years. Which is it?
So , we have 3 choices
1. G-d didn't write the bible.
2. G-d makes mistakes, or 3
There's more to the bible than what's written down.

For example. What on eatth does the bible mean when it says. "Do not be a peddler among your people ( Leviticus 19:16)
What does resting on the Sabbath entail? For a law book it's extremely vague.

Boo_Boo Loc: Jellystone

Genesis 15:13 "God said to Abram, "Know for certain that your descendants will be strangers in a land that is not theirs, where they will be enslaved and oppressed four hundred years." and Exodus 12 verses 40 and 41, "Now the sojourning of the children of Israel, who dwelt in Egypt, (was) four hundred and thirty years. And it came to pass at the end of the four hundred and thirty years, even the selfsame day it came to pass, that all the hosts of the LORD went out from the land of Egypt." I see where you think this is a contradiction. But, the key to this is G*d said that Abram's descendants would be strangers in a land that was not their land... so this includes Cannian as well as their enslavement in Egypt. Also, G*d said that Abram and his descendants, which would be his son Isaac (the only son of Abram and Sarah) his son would be strangers. Issac was born 30 years after the vision. Taking this in consideration, G*d delivered the children out of Egypt 430 years after he appeared to Abram. Keeping in mind, the Israelites were not slaves for 430 years, as they were only slaves in Egypt for 210 years, but they were strangers in other lands for 400 years starting from the time of Issac's birth. So, you can see, there is no contradiction.


To respond to your question on Leviticus 19:16... the actual quote used by most Christians is the KJV, "Thou shalt not go up and down as a talebearer among thy people: neither shalt thou stand against the blood of thy neighbour: I am the LORD." The meaning is made clear... If you are a talebearer, you spread rumors and rumor can be lies. It is wrong to lie about others or to gossip about one another. The same advice is reflected in Proverbs 11:13. And for the bigger issue, it is the 9th Commandment found in Exodus 20:10.

Exodus 20:9-10, "Six days you shall labor and do all your work, but the seventh day is a Sabbath of Adonai your God." This has long legs, as my Papa would say. Because every action taken causes equal reactions. But, before this ... we have a small story about the Sabbath. So, the story goes like this; G*d appears to His people and says.... My people, if you keep my laws I have a wonderful gift for you. Of course someone asks, what gift is that? To which G*d responds, in time I will give you the Messianic Age and each day will be like the Sabbath, where you and others will not have to work the fields and worry for food or drink and your loyal animals can graze the fields without being tied to a plow. That should explain to you about the Sabbath... you do not work, you do not make another work, and you do not make your animals work. Of course this is simplified because the entire traditions surrounding the day is difficult for one who is not a shomer shabbat.

So, I submit to you that G*d is perfect, with perfect knowledge and is the author of the Torah. Prophets of G*d wrote the Navi and humans wrote the Ketuvim.

Now then, I apologize to you.... I made a mistake when I first encountered your comments. I thought you may be Jewish. This was a mistake and I now know better, I realize that you are either agnostic or perhaps an atheist. And that is alright, I will not try to change your views and feel free to ask me any question you may have. This is not to imply that I will have all the answers, and I will tell you honestly when I do not know. My Papa taught me that faith is not something that every person has or even can obtain.

Cool Breeze

Bravo! That's the best answer I have heard on this subject! Thanks for clarifying that!

Cool Breeze

God makes mistakes??? Impossible! You are mistaken because your understanding is limited.

Chanita

That's my point. Rachellel definitely mrans peddlar. What took Moshe Rabbainu (Moses our Teacher) 40 days to learn in heaven? Everything not written down.
Theres a statement in Deuteronomy that says " slaughter the cattle as I have told you. But where? It's not in the written Torah anywhere.

Chanita

Cool Breeze that's exactly my point! You missed choice 3. He gave more information than was written down.
Rabbi Shimshon Rafael Hirsch, a major Orthodox Rabbi in mid 19th century Germany said the written Torah are the classnotes to a series of lectures.

Boo_Boo Loc: Jellystone

Let us be open with each other..... you could care less where animals are slaughtered... what you want to know is why everything that was shared with Moses or other prophets was not made available to you. You feel left out. I am positive that everything given to Moses was written, but has been lost. Remember, when the Ark of the Covenant was constructed Moses was told "And you shall put into the ark the testimony which I shall give you." "Exodus 25:16... that Ark is gone, so we do not know if G*d and Moses had secrets that you and I are not privy. Certainly we know that the Torah, Navi and Ketuvim were passed down orally to people. Some of the old transcripts are still in existence, but do they contain everything.... probably not.

So here is the deal, stop trying to follow the suggestions you may have found on the website for the "Evil Bible", follow your heart and study. The more you study, the clearer things become. You will learn to reason out these things... do not let other do your thinking... If after reading and assigning logic to your thoughts, asking unveiled questions you may still be an atheist, or not... it is your choice.

Chanita

Pennylyn, I thought you were an Orthodox Jew. Your last statement shows you're not.
But this thread started about xianity. John has never gotten back about my questions. Here's another question. Any person claiming to be a prophet has to prove it. There are 2 ways.
1. A proven prophet has to endorse him or her.
2. A prophecy that comes true in every detail. It's going to rain next week doesn't cut it. Its going to rain next Tuesday at 3:11 for exactly 42 minutes for 1.254 inches would. BUT any subsequent prophecy that doesn't come true in every detail disqualifies the prophet. I'm not sure but maybe even retroactively. I could bring up lots more questions but try answering the ones I've posted first.

jack sequim wa Loc: Blanchard, Idaho

Much appreciated. Having a 17 year relationship with my wife makes it easy to understand a statement "handicap ".
Typically standards are higher in general , perfectionism, ocd type character traits.
My wife was not in mainstream elementary school, rather often sat at a side desk doing one-two grade higher class work, causing her to feel freakish and not part of the group.
Graduation of college before graduation of high school put her, much younger than adults attending college (not part of the group ).
In friendships she needs to dumb herself down an example....she just finished explaining to professors grading her papers how to use mathematical formulas she created, with shortcuts. Four hours later she meets with friends, one may not have finished high school, another only a bachelor's, another a stay at home mom and their topics of discussions would be like you or myself having friends night with 9 and 10 year olds.
I could list many, many more reasons why (handicap ) is how both Penny and my wife may "feel" like.
You and I see nothing but "blessings " being able to cover 2-3 books 300-400 pages in 1-2 days and ace a test, while others have been working two weeks sweating it out, for a 3.2 grade point average.
I might add that she is very aware how she has made me feel, knowing I am unable to stimulate her in an intellectual level, a need she has and grows frustrated when to much time goes by in the absence of being around "those kind of relationships". And her finding ways to keep our relationship healthy using other means and activities.
These women live in different world's than average 4.0 students, which are few. They are in no way average.

Take care,.
Have a great evening