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The secret's out, I suffer from income 'inequality'
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Dec 22, 2013 13:03:21   #
Floyd Brown Loc: Milwaukee WI
 
catpaw wrote:
So call "producers" and "job creators" don't produce products or create jobs. Consumer demand and disposable income produces products and creates jobs.


What your are saying goes back to the start.

Some one made something that some one else wanted.

When there were just families or tribes they taught each other improvements.

Later others created things & people traded with each other.

Creating money made it easier to transact things between each other.

Now it is those that have the money use it to control all most every thing.

So you are right it was demand that comes first.
Disposable income is the fuel that moves the market place.

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Dec 22, 2013 13:05:05   #
Floyd Brown Loc: Milwaukee WI
 
lpnmajor wrote:
My own income has always been unequal to my demand for more stuff. The more I have the more I spend. I do feel sorry for those who lose income and are forced to sell the Lear jet and maybe the Mercedes too, but not as much as I sorrow for those deciding to eat or buy medicine.
I finally learned, at the end of my life, that it is not how much money you have, it's how you use it. Would a family of four living on $42,000 a year be expected to have a pool, 2 four wheelers, 2 jet ski's, a camper, premium cable and unlimited text/data on smartphones for all members? To many of us the answer is "no", but I know many families that this is the case. They claim poverty. Todays society has their perspectives all screwed up.
My own income has always been unequal to my demand... (show quote)


Your lite touch to issues is a welcome sight. :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:

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Dec 22, 2013 13:24:54   #
Fred Schnaubelt Loc: San Diego
 
Floyd Brown. What would you say "is" a fair wage? $50,000 a year, $100,000 a year, $1 million a year? Mexican nationals working in the U.S. at our minimum wage receive approximately 8 times the minimum wage in Mexico's interior (in their opinion they are not exploited by American businessmen). Everyone in Zimbabwe is a billionaire and yet the poverty rate is horrendous. According to the U.S. Bureau of labor Statistics only 1.4% of wage earners in California and 4.7% nationally receive the minimum wage, and rarely for more than a year. The very few "heads of households" that receive the minimum wage qualify for the tax credit refund. The minimum wage is a learning wage to find out if people will show up the day after payday. The primary beneficiaries of the minimum wage increases are the 95% above the minimum wage and union workers whose contracts require pay increases whenever the federal minimum wage rate goes up. That is why it is union workers who strike the fast food operations. People lobbying for a minimum wage increase hurt the very people they "claim" they want to help.

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Dec 22, 2013 14:24:37   #
alex Loc: michigan now imperial beach californa
 
catpaw wrote:
Interesting. I don't recall Obama or liberals quoting Carl (or Groucho) Marx.
And it's simply because tens of millions of people suddenly decided at the same time to choose poverty over jobs with an equitable wage. And when they try to advance themselves (such as striking fast food joints), they are suddenly greedy, lazy, communists who don't want to work or better themselves.
How's this for communist brainwashing and Marxist doctrine:
The less gap of wage disparity, the more money circulating the economy. That means a broader tax base, which means more government revenue, which means less of a deficit and more debt paid down and more investment in infrastructure, education, health care--you know, the usual socialistic, communist, marxist, give-away programs.
Equitable wages also means more spending, more consumer demand, and consumer demand means more production and--yeah, you guessed it--more jobs.
But since this is obviously an communist plot from an anti-christ who hates America and wants to destroy all we hold holy, let's not do it.
Interesting. I don't recall Obama or liberals quot... (show quote)


if you want to narrow the income gap get off your a** and earn more

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Dec 22, 2013 14:28:25   #
alex Loc: michigan now imperial beach californa
 
catpaw wrote:
Who said anything about printing more money? An equitable wage does not require printing more money.


if you want an "equitable" wage earn it

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Dec 22, 2013 14:31:23   #
alex Loc: michigan now imperial beach californa
 
Floyd Brown wrote:
When will some people wake up & get the point that the basic problem we are having is that paying a fair wage that is enough for a person to be able to live a decent life on is not going to kill this country & would go a long way in things being better for
all but a few that have more than they need.


you will never get what you call a living wage by raising the minimum wage because that only makes everything cost more, instead of raising cost raise your ability

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Dec 22, 2013 14:35:38   #
alex Loc: michigan now imperial beach californa
 
lpnmajor wrote:
I'm still wondering where that " 11 million " number comes from. I only know of 3 and I doubt that no more have crossed the river.


I would bet it is closer to 20 million

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Dec 22, 2013 14:40:28   #
alex Loc: michigan now imperial beach californa
 
catpaw wrote:
:thumbup:

So far, every argument I have heard that wage disparity should ignored is the same regurgitated hostile name-calling when the minimum wage was $1.25.
The country is not segregated Texas in the 1950s. Those good ol' days are gone. Accept it. Communists and athiests and illegal immigrants did not elect the President. The country was changing before Obama came along. Republicans a la Tea Party either would not or could not see this. And apparently still can't. They insist that they speak for the American people and wonder why they continue to lose elections and why their polls are slipping below the president's. Time to get their heads out of the sand and face reality.
:thumbup: br br So far, every argument I have he... (show quote)


oh yes they do how do you think obozo got in office

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Dec 22, 2013 14:50:10   #
UncleJesse Loc: Hazzard Co, GA
 
I don't know why the feds never tied a COLA to the law like SS. A 2-3% automatic adjustment per year would be a innocuous to small business and macro economics while allowing folks to keep up with inflation.

Floyd Brown wrote:
When will some people wake up & get the point that the basic problem we are having is that paying a fair wage that is enough for a person to be able to live a decent life on is not going to kill this country & would go a long way in things being better for
all but a few that have more than they need.

Reply
Dec 22, 2013 15:32:46   #
Loki Loc: Georgia
 
RetNavyCWO wrote:
That's true, of course, but let me add to it: I think there just aren't enough jobs out there that pay enough to motivate people to want them. Critics of the poor like to say that they should better themselves to move up to better-paying jobs...as if enough of those jobs actually exist. They don't! The stock market is soaring because companies have learned to generate profits without unskilled American workers. It's a combination of technology replacing workers and the transferring of menial labor jobs to foreign countries.

Remember the days when unskilled assembly line workers could afford nice, tho modest, homes and cars? Heck, they could even afford to send their kids to college. Those days are gone.

Create jobs that pay a decent wage and watch the welfare rolls drop.
That's true, of course, but let me add to it: I t... (show quote)


By create jobs that pay a decent wage you mean manufacturing. By manufacturing you mean those evil corporations that don't "pay their fair share." Cheap foreign labor is not the only reason our manufacturing jobs have moved offshore. The highest corporate tax rate in the world, (with the possible exception of Japan), also has something to do with it. A corporation's first duty is to it's stockholders, not the US public. There will be no real recovery until there is a revitalization of manufacturing in this country. I am not sure how the best way to bring that about is, except that I am sure that the more the Federal Government has to do with it, the less likely it is to succeed.

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Dec 22, 2013 18:24:25   #
jb
 
Nuclearian wrote:
In a December 4 speech, President Obama declared income "inequality" to be "the defining challenge of our time."

It is time for me to come clean; to own up to a dark secret I have been hiding most of my life. It is embarrassing to admit it, but I suffer from income inequality.

Yes, there are hundreds of thousands, perhaps millions of people who make more money than I do and it has affected my life in ways too numerous to recount.

Starting with my first summer job as a bellhop and kitchen worker at a hotel in Maine when I was 14, I kept records of the amount of money I earned. The ledger records that on a really good day I made as much as $8 in tips. The hotel owner paid me a salary of $20 a week, but included a small room in the basement and all the food I could eat. He made more money than I did.

In the early '60s, as a copyboy at NBC News in Washington, my take-home pay was less than $100 a week. Everyone else, including, I suspect, the janitor, made more than I did.

When I finally got on the air as a broadcast journalist, my NBC check stubs were far less than the withholding on David Brinkley's paycheck. I still bear the scars from this income "inequality."

When I was 37 I made $25,000 a year and took public transportation to and from work. Many others, including most of the people I interviewed, made far more money than I did. Some of them had cars and drivers to squire them around Washington.

Was it "fair" that these people were richer than I was? Absolutely, as long as I had the opportunity through education, risk-taking, experience and hard work to eventually make more.

President Obama and some leaders in the Democratic Party appear to want us to accept a false premise: that if I earn more money than you, I "owe" you some of my money to make things "fair." This might be true if the amount of money available were fixed, but it is not.

The communist philosophy is similar to this way of thinking: "From each according to his ability, to each according to his need," is the slogan popularized by Karl Marx. In other words, mutually-shared poverty with just enough to barely sustain everyone, not an avenue out of poverty with hope as the mode of transportation, hard work as the fuel and success as the destination.

Income "inequality" is a part of the greed-envy-entitlement philosophy promoted by liberals who want to addict more people to government and entice them to vote for the party that is effectively buying their loyalty. And now they want to extend the 99-week limit for unemployment benefits, which has the potential to enable those people who are unwilling to look for a job.

Today, we have a tendency to punish the successful and subsidize the unsuccessful. It used to be the reverse, which motivated more people to become, if not a success, then at least self-sustaining.

There was a time when Americans would have been ashamed to take, much less ask for, anything from their fellow citizens. If you were able-bodied, asking for help from the government was regarded by a previous generation as moral weakness.

Today, the attitude promoted by the income "inequality" crowd is one of victimization. Poor people are told they are victims because successful people have stolen from them what is rightfully theirs.

Envy, greed and entitlement are not the things that built America, or sustained her through numerous wars and a Great Depression.

The concern should not be how much others make, but how much you can make if you apply yourself and adopt the values embraced by successful people.

Those who make what I once earned and think they can never earn more are being told a lie. Realizing this is the first step to improving one's income and one's life.

By Cal Thomas
In a December 4 speech, President Obama declared i... (show quote)



OP-ED CONTRIBUTOR
To Reduce Inequality, Tax Wealth, Not Income
By DANIEL ALTMAN
Published: November 18, 2012


WHETHER you’re in the 99 percent, the 47 percent or the 1 percent, inequality in America may threaten your future. Often decried for moral or social reasons, inequality imperils the economy, too; the International Monetary Fund recently warned that high income inequality could damage a country’s long-term growth. But the real menace for our long-term prosperity is not income inequality — it’s wealth inequality, which distorts access to economic opportunities.

Wealth inequality has worsened for two decades and is now at an extreme level. Replacing the income, estate and gift taxes with a progressive wealth tax would do much more to reduce it than any other tax plan being considered in Washington.

When economists try to measure inequality, they typically focus on income, because the data are most readily accessible. But income is not always a good gauge of economic power. Consider a group of people who all have high incomes but differ widely in their wealth. Who’s going to get into the country club? Who’s going to have the money to finance a new venture? Moreover, income data may not reveal the true economic power of people who are retired, or who receive their pay in securities like stocks and options or use complex strategies to avoid taxes.

Trends in the distribution of wealth can look very different from trends in incomes, because wealth is a measure of accumulated assets, not a flow over time. High earners add much more to their wealth every year than low earners. Over time, wealth inequality rises even as income inequality stays the same, and wealth inequality eventually becomes much more severe.

This is exactly what happened in the United States.

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Check out topic: OMG we all heard it
Dec 22, 2013 18:26:24   #
ldsuttonjr Loc: ShangriLa
 
catpaw wrote:
So call "producers" and "job creators" don't produce products or create jobs. Consumer demand and disposable income produces products and creates jobs.


Catpaw: Go back to school and read some M.Friedman, H. Hazlitt, and F.A Hayek....by the way stay away from buffoons like J.M. Keynes. What ever happened to investment? There is 18 Trillion bucks secured overseas just waiting for this POTUS to either leave, resign, or go to jail?......Until that happens no one with any sense will reinvest in this current financial debacle...!

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Dec 22, 2013 20:10:18   #
jb
 
ldsuttonjr wrote:
Catpaw: Go back to school and read some M.Friedman, H. Hazlitt, and F.A Hayek....by the way stay away from buffoons like J.M. Keynes. What ever happened to investment? There is 18 Trillion bucks secured overseas just waiting for this POTUS to either leave, resign, or go to jail?......Until that happens no one with any sense will reinvest in this current financial debacle...!


Whoa, big guy. No need to be so aggressive, just another point of view...
BTW, I invest in this current financial debacle. You have to gamble if you plan on winning in our economic structure.
But, so much for the other 90% who don't have the luxury, huh?

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Dec 22, 2013 20:42:19   #
ldsuttonjr Loc: ShangriLa
 
jb wrote:
Whoa, big guy. No need to be so aggressive, just another point of view...
BTW, I invest in this current financial debacle. You have to gamble if you plan on winning in our economic structure.
But, so much for the other 90% who don't have the luxury, huh?


Yep I'm doing OK in this current climate....what makes you think I'm a big guy? I'm just being assertive....you may not want to see my aggressive side? Catpaw is all wet on his assumption!

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Dec 23, 2013 01:05:23   #
Floyd Brown Loc: Milwaukee WI
 
banjojack wrote:
Ask your elected Representatives about the figure. It was promulgated by bureaucrats that they hired to do their job, so they could concentrate on important stuff like saving the country by getting re-elected so they could get re-elected yet again to save the country from career politicians.



I am with you.

It seems mean & harsh to ask politicians to do what they were elected to do, after working so hard to get elected

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