Artemis

OK but don't yell at me if I happen to disagree with you as far as never. I think the more we travel away from the traditional testament's the closer we may find our divine life source energy, which I imagine will not be of the physical world, sooo we will probably find it through cooperative efforts of irrational thought and scientific research, ironic eh. Blending and flexibility always seem to cohabitate so well together.

Artemis

Yes and I'm trying to tell you that...that truth is true for you, and many others but it is not an absolute truth. You may view it as a universal truth, but that truth is your opinion. A belief is not a universal truth as many do not agree, a truth and a belief are two very different things. . .

bdamage Loc: My Bunker

I ONLY fear for others LJ.
So much deception.
So much distraction.
So many will perish.

mwdegutis Loc: Illinois

Just because some don't agree with an absolute truth doesn't negate it as as such.

Artemis

Like I said before, what is an absolute truth? 1+1=2 that is an absolute truth, is there a God...nope, not an absolute.

mwdegutis Loc: Illinois

Just because you say that there is no God does not preclude the existence of God -- a transcendent fundamental or spiritual reality -- from being an absolute truth.

Artemis

Don't make this personal, I don't think I said what I believed, we were talking about truths. I didn't say God didn't exist, I said in my opinion in wasn't an absolute truth. It is not a fact, it is a belief, and a belief is only an absolute truth to the person who believes it, OK I think we've come full circle now. You have a blessed night

Docadhoc Loc: Elsewhere

You didn't even try as evidenced in your reply to my questions and answers to.yours.

You completely ducked my entire post and went back to your anec. te and fallacy commentary. I am trying to convince you of nothing. I am explaining my belief but you try to tell me about what I believe as if I asked. I did not. I said if we are to discuss, get your facts straight. I am not telling you that your belief is wrong. I am telling you that your facts are incorrect so if you want to deny, then deny the true facts, not distorted garbage.

I have been trying to find common ground on which to discuss Christianity and explain my belief and why, but you refuse to seriously discuss. Every time you are confronted with something you don't want to discuss, you go back to denial and start talking about "irrational".

There is nothing irrational about your belief or mine. I have nothing against you believing what you believe but you obviously object to me having my beliefs. You make comments about Christianity that are grossly incorrect and I tell you the truth and you deny it. You set yourself up as an expert regarding something you don't believe in and when I correct one of your incorrect statements, you go straight back to denial including your denial of dodging my posting to you, which you clearly did. You make comments based on completely incorrect information and I suspect you know it. Such as God controlling everything. Preposterous and you know it. It is insulting to see you attempt this charade.

You don't need to dodge or avoid anything. Just don't engage if you do not seriously intend to follow through.

In actuality you do not wish to engage. You want a platform from which to deny.

Your professed concept of God and Christianity is tremendously wrong as if all you know came from a "religiously oriented" philosophy class. If it did you should know that those classes teach only the instructor's opinion regardless of what you were told because if it was doctrine you could have bought the required books and the school would save the instructor's salary and associated costs.

And you won't like this either but if the school was Catholic, it was not main stream Christian. Don't tell me about the size of Catholicism. The Catholic church and mainstream Christianity are mile's apart and use differing Bibles so if that was your learning base, you have been fed a line about Christianity and are in fact a novice.

I find you disingenuous and locked in a mind set that prevents serious two way discussion regarding the Christianity you know nothing of. And I suspect you know better because what you say is so. egregious you have to be laughing as you type.

Say what you will, and you will because deniers must have the last word in absence of genuine interest as though it makes them points somehow. I'm done with you regarding this topic. And I see through your facade.

lindajoy Loc: right here with you....

I understand what your saying but you can not change what other choose....
You can not fear their deception..They made that choice knowing right from wrong and chose it instead...
Some do learn from it and in that may learn to cast out their deception and maybe not perish???
For others it is a way to sustain them self and they do not want anything more than to deceive and destruct..
Those will surely perish and most likely will never even see or know any difference anyway.....

PeterS

You can disagree with me all you like. All I ask is a reasoned debate, nothing more....

PeterS

Doc, I think I know as much or more about Christianity than you do. The ying and yang of Christianity is faith and don't tell me that it's not. And there is no two ways about it doc but if you have faith in Christ he well reward your faith by taking care of you in life and in death. If your life is in gods hands explain to me what you have to worry about? Life and death are transient--what's permanent is the after life. And your place in that afterlife will be determined by your faith in this one. All I have to say--if it's through guns that you protect yourself how is that having faith in god...

PeterS

And rightly so. What you don't seem to get is that truth depends on which side of the biblical sword you are on. That makes truth relative for if it were absolute god wouldn't ask others to do his dirty work for him as he is more than capable of doing it himself as he demonstrated so many times in the past. With a firestorm from heaven there is no questions but when you come to slit my throat and then you say it's a commandment from your god. Well, I say bullshit--you just wanted my house and my land. And who's to say who's correct. Well it depends on who has the last swing of the sword. Messy stuff murder and it's even worse when it's relative as than there endless excuses and you end up with a world--well much like the one we have today...

PeterS

Doc, here is the definition of irrationalism : a system emphasizing intuition, instinct, feeling, or faith rather than reason or holding that the universe is governed by supernatural forces.

And here is the definition of Rationalism: a belief or theory that opinions and actions should be based on reason and knowledge rather than on religious belief or emotional response.

I have no problem with your beliefs doc as they cover some of the better concepts that guide man. My only desire is that you open your eyes and understand the philosophy that guides you. I learned the concept(s) of rationalism and irrationalism in Philosophy of Religion and the point in understanding both was so that you could come to understand what and why you believe the way you do.

As for any expertise--I have probably thought more in depth about Christ and his meaning than any theist on this board. You will find you have to, to be able to reject the premise of god. I find myself very much in Jefferson's camp in that I believe he (Christ) was a great philosopher and teacher of morals but I don't believe he was a god--simply made one by man. That doesn't mean that I don't believe in Christs teaching for I do. I simply don't believe they will lead me to heaven nor do I think that was ever there intent...

I suggest you read the definition of irrationalism and see how it fits theists like a glove. Than I suggest that you accept who and what you are and than get on with your life....

Artemis

I thought I was, Isn't that what a debate is, when two disagree? Maybe my tone was misinterpreted. I take bold type as yelling, and mention of it was mostly in tease/jest. I don't disagree with you on most of your comments and wasn't condemning your opinion in any way.

lindajoy Loc: right here with you....

I posted this reply earlier but think it got lost in the flurry onslaught that followed..

"The Lord helps those whom help them self as well.....God didn't give us brains to be stupid.."

What you have said here about purpose of God and the afterlife is what is taught by the fundamentalist of "Church worshipers"...Not necessarily what I believe but factually correct, Peter.......

Our rewards come within this life we live or try to live and what happens when we pass is that the spirit leaves not the shell we wore while walking this Earth and learning..Until we have achieved that level of perfection we remain to learn and walk too~~No matter how long it takes...