son of witless

Let me tell you a little of my journey. I had a holy roller grandmother who bounced my mother off walls growing up. She used to watch me when I was little and I got a little of that. I had my period of anti religious rebellion. Later in life I came back to Christianity because I found not all Christians were my battle ax Grandma. I also found out about her suffering abuse, so the holy rolling was from something else.

As I came back to Christianity I found I had more in common with Christians and found I really could not stand most anti Christians.

nwtk2007 Loc: Texas

Sounds pretty crazy. Amazing the abuse that goes on.

I too enjoy Christians. They are usually good people. If they'd not press the belief in the old stories or the miracle magic, I'd be fine. I go to a church with my lady friend. They are always welcoming, so I shouldn't criticize their beliefs. And they listen to my lack thereof. They worry about me and pray for me. But not obnoxiously.

They say I challenge their Bible knowledge so they always like to hear my take on things.

Works for me. I should probably do their yard or something.

Docadhoc Loc: Elsewhere

And Christ gave them two swords.

And.one was used.to cut the ear off a servant of a high.priest. And Christ healed the servant.

No one was killed nor was killing intended.

Docadhoc Loc: Elsewhere

There are Christians who.push, but most Christians are good folks who don't push. I don't.push at all until I hear someone bad mouthing my faith. Then I speak.up. if these anti Christians could keep their opinion to themselves there would be no problem.

PeterS

God exists in our imagination. Only the imagination limits god. And let me ask you--if your child was Adolph Hitler and before you even conceived him you know what and who he would become, are you telling me you aren't influencing the outcome! The god of our imagination is playing dice knowing the outcome of every roll he makes. Aside from playing a very boring game he is fully responsible for the game that is being played. You think you have free will? So what. It means nothing in a world where the outcome is known before the game is even played.

And you did hit one thing squarely on the head. God is irrational. Man is a creature of reason and no, the rational mind cannot understand the irrational mind of a god. And aside from the physical laws of nature Doc--everything is opinion. What it comes down to is whether your opinion is created through rationalism or irrationalism. One leads to a rational certainty and the other, by definition, is chaos...

lindajoy Loc: right here with you....

Your mind is your best friend or worst enemy~~I believe as I do and you believe as you do..I respect that, period..

Our choices for whatever reason are also just that..Some believe choosing to be good falls within their sense of balance as the person they are..Some believe we have a code or laws of the Bible that guide us..Both have the same end result, a choice between good and bad and the world smiles with you.........

PeterS

So are you saying those who follow the old testament are mistaken?

And I am finding this really curious. I stated earlier someone who had faith in god would need no gun as Christ was his protector. You are saying that Christ does not support killing. You said I was wrong but if Christ doesn't support killing how so?

lindajoy Loc: right here with you....

The Lord helps those whom help themself as well.....God didn't give us brains to be stupid..............

PeterS

I am simply talking about what choice means when one creates an omnipotent god. Jefferson and his fellow deists believed that god was simply the power that created the universe and therefore, indirectly, the force that created us. They didn't believe that god interacted with man or was there to guide us down any particular path. That was up to man and why they created a government where man was free to worship god but gods influence stopped there. If god exists, that would be the type of god, as it is fully irrational to think any other way. Doc and his fellow CC's are at home in the world of irrationalism. I am not condemning them for that only saying that they would be better off to admit what, and how, they believe.

I started college at the University of Albuquerque, which had been called 'The University of St Joseph on the Rio Grande', and was a Catholic college that required 12 hours of theology to graduate. The first thing I was taught in Philosophy of Religion was the principles of Rationalism and Irrationalism and how one guides Man and how the other guides God and it's the conflicts between the rational and irrational where Man is tested.

Doc and others think I don't know what I'm talking about but I understand too well.

Believe as you like Linda--both theologically and politically--that will never change my opinion of you. And for everyone their minds are their best friends or worst enemies. I am comfortable with mine far more than when I trying to resolve the conflicts between reason and theology...

lindajoy Loc: right here with you....

You have read the Federalist papers, as have I ..So much to learn in what our founding fathers were concerned with and their personal views of things...I agree with what you are saying as well to a degree..I am also saying we believe as we do regardless of what others want us to believe and the "learning process" of those topics enhance, good or bad...

Theologically or politically my opinion of you remains measured in the man I have come to know and am honored in your friendship, period..And the pictures are done...

Artemis

Comes down to every man's truth is his own. It's not about accepting someone else's truth but accepting what they believe for themselves.

mwdegutis Loc: Illinois

So truth is relative and there's no such thing as absolute truth?

Artemis

Proven facts are truths, yet it's still relative, you can tell someone an undeniable truth yet they can simply choose not to believe it, in that sense it is relative. Take the discussion on global warming... a perfect example.

mwdegutis Loc: Illinois

You didn't answer my question...Is there no such thing as absolute truth because according to your logic murder is not wrong because someone chooses not to believe it is wrong.

Artemis

I did answer you question, there is absolute fact for those that believe it to be absolute A man who commits murder is wrong in the eyes of all those who believe that to be true, but for example if a man kills someone under the pretense of a religious sacrificial gesture to their god, in the "eyes of his congregation" is it murder? Under his culture the answer would be no. He had done no wrong.

Does a soldier commit murder when fighting? The human mind can rationalize anything. We have laws we abide by, we do that in agreement to what we feel to be true to ourselves, by what we are taught and than follow...or not, as we do have free choice even if it leads to our own demise.