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Finally Science and religion may be becoming friends.
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Jun 5, 2016 16:24:41   #
PeterS
 
Super Dave wrote:
Perhaps the universe is just God showing off. Or perhaps He gives us undeniable proof of His existence so that we can more easily follow Him.


If he wanted undeniable proof so people could easily follow him; he could have created a earth, a moon to provide seasons, and a sun to provide light and heat. Anything else could have only come from a god as there would be no other source for the elements that we are created from. As it is, the exact same elements we are made from are abundantly provided for by the universe. This is the reason why people who are guided by reason see the universe, instead of a god, as the source for life on earth. It's this confusion created by the existence of a universe that leaves us skeptical that supernatural forces are at play.

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Jun 5, 2016 16:33:11   #
robmull Loc: florida
 
PeterS wrote:
So it's not possible to have no god because there is no god? And tell me, if I pick up a rock and start worshiping it does that mean I now have a god? And tell me wolfie, will he strike you down if you deny him? If that's true why are there more atheists now than ever before? I think my rock is more dangerous than your god--because my rock, in the right hands, really can kill me...








Karl, is that you??? Karl Marx??? Why it IS you, you little devil; I'd know that "earthly" philosophy anywhere!!! You little devil you!!!

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Jun 5, 2016 16:46:09   #
nwtk2007 Loc: Texas
 
Nickolai wrote:
It's just as likely that the universe is just a laboratory experiment in a giant world certainly not a personal savior that listens to your prayers guides your destiny an has a plan for the lives of the approximately seven billion three hundred million human beings on earth


You are correct. But someone will ask, who made the lab, and I'd say who made the researcher and they'd say Gawd and I'd say who made Gawd and they'd say Gawds always been and I'd say how convenient and they'd say if you'd believe, the Gawd spirit would reveal it to me and I'd say again, how convenient!

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Jun 5, 2016 17:35:10   #
Ike Loc: Minnesota Iron Range
 
crazylibertarian wrote:
The schism never really existed anyway. Scientific investigation was considered the search for God's plan for the universe and consequently us. The Jesuits were entrusted with much of that part of the Church's functions.

The Galileo incident, that has been used by secularists and atheists to discredit the Church & hence religion in general, was not handled well by the Church and has played into opponents' hands. What has been ignored is that the Jesuits had more accurate measurements that pointed to a terracentric universe while Galileo's pointed to solacentrism. As time has shown, both were wrong and our planet, solar system & galaxy, the Milky Way, are hurtling together toward some other place. Along the way we are likely to pass through another galaxy.

It is important to realize that the Church, along with the Jesuits, monks and other of its groups, have had a hand in much scientific discoverery. Among the most important is the work of Grigor Mendel who laid the foundation for inheritance. And no matter what else, everyone should realize that as he hoists to enjoy a glass of champagne or other sparkling wine, Grand Marnier or other liqueur and many beers & ales, that his imbibing is a result of work of innumerable and unheralded monks.

Even Richard Dawkins can't deny that. And maybe all of you readers of this who are atheists and anti-theists should cease and desist in such joie de vivre.
The schism never really existed anyway. Scientifi... (show quote)


Unfortunately, I think the schism did exist and still exists. Galileo was right, within his frame of reference, which was the solar system. The Jesuits were not. Future advances in astronomy have shown our planet is in orbit around an insignificant star that is embedded in one of the spiral arms of a typical galaxy in a rapidly expanding universe.

We see the schism every time a religious group tries to ban a science text that says the earth is more than 6,000 years old or that life as we know it has evolved over hundreds of millions of years or that dinosaurs did not coexist with humans.

I have no problem with intelligent design as long as it doesn't interfere with science's attempt to expand our understanding of natural phenomena and natural forces.

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Jun 5, 2016 17:39:33   #
Armageddun Loc: The show me state
 
PeterS wrote:
That doesn't explain the universe though and that's what I was alluding to. Consider this--if we just had a planet, a moon to provide the seasons, a sun to provide light and warmth, than all else necessary is a god to provide the elements to make up life. Instead we have a universe that contains all the same elements that we need in order to be alive. There would be no reason to believe that we are creations of the universe unless it could provide all we needed for life.

It seems all god did in creating a universe was to confuse how life could have begun on this planet. He provided us with the reason to doubt his existence and for a loving god that seems a most curious thing to do...
That doesn't explain the universe though and that'... (show quote)



Peter, it seems as though you are not going to believe in God no matter what evidence is presented by anyone. I do pray that whatever you hold dear supports you through the times of hurt, loss, and grief that we all endure at some point in our lives. No matter if you look at life through a microscope or a telescope there are amazing unexplainable wonders that even the smartest and wisest of mankind still can't explain. To say that God does not exist is to say that you have inspected and dissected the entire universe and have proven He isn't there. Good luck

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Jun 5, 2016 17:46:49   #
Ike Loc: Minnesota Iron Range
 
Meister wrote:
Oil and water. Faith does not need proofs to support it, nor do the findings of science assault it. Think of Romans1:19-22. God is plain in nature, a candid glimpse. All science can do is for us to marvel at and experience awe in his guiding hand. There is no fight, no conflict, between science and religion...unless we are closed-minded moralists or blind fundamentalists.


Well, I don't think that is all that science can do. But one of the true "miracles" of the universe is that it is just complicated enough that it isn't easy to understand the fundamental principles on which it operates, but it is not too complicated for us to gradually unravel its mysteries.

If a conclusion is based on solid evidence and good logic, it does not require any faith to accept it, just reasonable intelligence. Here's ore of my favorite quotes from Bill Maher: "I don't BELIEVE that water boils at 212 degrees, that's just how hot it is when it happens. It's not ideology, it's soup." And I might add that all that should be needed to convince any doubters is a pot of water, a stove, and a thermometer.

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Jun 5, 2016 17:48:37   #
Hemiman Loc: Communist California
 
Ike wrote:
Well, I don't think that is all that science can do. But one of the true "miracles" of the universe is that it is just complicated enough that it isn't easy to understand the fundamental principles on which it operates, but it is not too complicated for us to gradually unravel its mysteries.

If a conclusion is based on solid evidence and good logic, it does not require any faith to accept it, just reasonable intelligence. Here's ore of my favorite quotes from Bill Maher: "I don't BELIEVE that water boils at 212 degrees, that's just how hot it is when it happens. It's not ideology, it's soup." And I might add that all that should be needed to convince any doubters is a pot of water, a stove, and a thermometer.
Well, I don't think that is all that science can d... (show quote)


Provided by whom?

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Jun 5, 2016 17:48:47   #
Armageddun Loc: The show me state
 
Ike wrote:
Unfortunately, I think the schism did exist and still exists. Galileo was right, within his frame of reference, which was the solar system. The Jesuits were not. Future advances in astronomy have shown our planet is in orbit around an insignificant star that is embedded in one of the spiral arms of a typical galaxy in a rapidly expanding universe.

We see the schism every time a religious group tries to ban a science text that says the earth is more than 6,000 years old or that life as we know it has evolved over hundreds of millions of years or that dinosaurs did not coexist with humans.

I have no problem with intelligent design as long as it doesn't interfere with science's attempt to expand our understanding of natural phenomena and natural forces.
Unfortunately, I think the schism did exist and st... (show quote)


Those who truly believe that God was the designer and creator of this universe do not disagree with science. Science is the search and discovery of Gods' creation. The riff has not been with science, but scientist. It seems by this article some of the best scientist are beginning to give credit where credit is due. The truth of the matter is even those who believe in intelligent design still and will never have all the answers concerning the designer.

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Jun 5, 2016 17:54:15   #
Armageddun Loc: The show me state
 
Ike wrote:
Well, I don't think that is all that science can do. But one of the true "miracles" of the universe is that it is just complicated enough that it isn't easy to understand the fundamental principles on which it operates, but it is not too complicated for us to gradually unravel its mysteries.

If a conclusion is based on solid evidence and good logic, it does not require any faith to accept it, just reasonable intelligence. Here's ore of my favorite quotes from Bill Maher: "I don't BELIEVE that water boils at 212 degrees, that's just how hot it is when it happens. It's not ideology, it's soup." And I might add that all that should be needed to convince any doubters is a pot of water, a stove, and a thermometer.
Well, I don't think that is all that science can d... (show quote)


Mr Maher leaves so many questions: Where does the water come from to boil? Where does the heat source come from? Where did the wisdom and intelligence come from to make and use a thermometer? Where did all of the intelligence to make his soup come from. Please don't say man.

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Jun 5, 2016 17:56:56   #
Armageddun Loc: The show me state
 
nwtk2007 wrote:
You are correct. But someone will ask, who made the lab, and I'd say who made the researcher and they'd say Gawd and I'd say who made Gawd and they'd say Gawds always been and I'd say how convenient and they'd say if you'd believe, the Gawd spirit would reveal it to me and I'd say again, how convenient!



How convenient, sure makes life alot easier but less responsible, accountable, and reliable.

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Jun 5, 2016 18:03:53   #
Wolf counselor Loc: Heart of Texas
 
Nickolai wrote:
I got saved one time in a holy roller church and I prayed and prayed for God to reveal him self to me. The SOB has ignored me. It's been 71 years and I still haven't heard back


So someone in a " holy roller church ", told you that you were saved ?

And then they told you that if you prayed, God would reveal himself to you ?

Now, after 71 years He has never said a word to you ?

That means you are far too intelligent to believe in God.

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Jun 5, 2016 18:03:58   #
Ike Loc: Minnesota Iron Range
 
Armageddun wrote:
Those who truly believe that God was the designer and creator of this universe do not disagree with science. Science is the search and discovery of Gods' creation. The riff has not been with science, but scientist. It seems by this article some of the best scientist are beginning to give credit where credit is due. The truth of the matter is even those who believe in intelligent design still and will never have all the answers concerning the designer.


So the people who try to ban books that teach the history of the universe and of life on this planet are not among those who "truly believe that God was the designer and creator of this universe"?

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Jun 5, 2016 18:05:04   #
nwtk2007 Loc: Texas
 
Armageddun wrote:
How convenient, sure makes life alot easier but less responsible, accountable, and reliable.


It's the believer who finds convenience I their beliefs. The unbeliever doesn't need excuses

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Jun 5, 2016 18:07:01   #
PeterS
 
robmull wrote:
Karl, is that you??? Karl Marx??? Why it IS you, you little devil; I'd know that "earthly" philosophy anywhere!!! You little devil you!!!


Still unable to ad anything worth while hey rob. Well keep trying, maybe someday you will...

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Jun 5, 2016 18:09:54   #
Hemiman Loc: Communist California
 
PeterS wrote:
Still unable to ad anything worth while hey rob. Well keep trying, maybe someday you will...


Ha ha ha look who is talking.

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