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Teaching the Truth About Islam
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Aug 18, 2015 12:35:34   #
tenneman
 
Islam is a political system with religious enforcement therefore not comparable to the planet's other great faiths but you can take this to the bank:

It is the only doctrine where there is a direct command from Allah to reek violence on unbelievers. You simply will not find such in any other religious texts spawned by earthlings.

Before jumping to conclusions re the violence in the Bible think seriously about each of my words:

Islam is the only political/religious ideology where there are explicit commands from the Muslim God to bring heat on those who do not believe as they do.

tenneman

Reply
Aug 18, 2015 14:08:26   #
payne1000
 
tenneman wrote:
Islam is a political system with religious enforcement therefore not comparable to the planet's other great faiths but you can take this to the bank:

It is the only doctrine where there is a direct command from Allah to reek violence on unbelievers. You simply will not find such in any other religious texts spawned by earthlings.

Before jumping to conclusions re the violence in the Bible think seriously about each of my words:

Islam is the only political/religious ideology where there are explicit commands from the Muslim God to bring heat on those who do not believe as they do.

tenneman
Islam is a political system with religious enforce... (show quote)


Islam is a religion. Islam is not political. Zionism is political and Zionism's goals more closely match the militarism you falsely claim against Islam.

From Wicki:
"Within Islamic jurisprudence, jihad is usually taken to mean military exertion against non-believer/non-Muslim/Muslim combatants who insulted Islam. The ultimate purpose of military jihad is debated, both within the Islamic community and without. Jihad is the only form of warfare permissible in Islamic law and may be declared against illegal works, terrorists, criminal groups, rebels, apostates, and leaders or states who oppress Muslims. Most Muslims today interpret Jihad as only a defensive form of warfare."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam

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Aug 18, 2015 17:08:12   #
tenneman
 
Islam cannot be truly vetted via wiki. If one is to diagnose the reality of Islam he/she must engage the Qur'an, Hadith, and other texts all in concert with the history of Mohammad and the Middle East.

The exact Qur'anic verbage, regarding the jihad tenets, does not lend itself to any other interpretation than the one clearly stated. This exact form of intolerance is taught in all of the Madrassas to children, begining at 9 years of age.


It's a seminary. It's where students of different ages, as young as nine or ten, go to learn religious education and to be schooled first of all in reading and then in religious studies. Unfortunately the madrassas--thousands all over the Muslim world--are where Muslim children are taught the vitals of jihad.

The reality is that while active jihadists are a minority in the one and a half billion Muslims populating planet Earth all polls show that minority approaches a number larger than the population of North America and they base their actions in an exact form of Islamic theology, while in the ascendancy throughout the Islamic world. Factor that by the reality that nowhere in Islam is there a significant anti-jihad, anti-al Qaeda, or anti-bin Laden—---recently dispatched to meet his 72 virgins in the Garden------movement; while Muslims worldwide rioted over cartoons in a Danish newspaper and remarks by the Pope, they have never rioted over Osama bin Laden’s supposed hijacking of their faith. Remember the thousands of Muslims gathering in D.C a few months back? There were many placards being raised yet not one sign/placard demonstrated anti-jihad sentiments.

There is no way to misinterpret the jihad tenets. They can only be ignored or changed by the decision making mullahs in Mecca and Medina and those folks are big jihad supporters.

tenneman

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Aug 18, 2015 17:19:28   #
saltwind 78 Loc: Murrells Inlet, South Carolina
 
tenement, I was a US History teacher and Modern world history teacher as well. Islam is one of those ideas that changes with time and place. It was way ahead of the West during the middle ages. The level of civilization in Muslim Spain, Bagdad and the Ottoman Empire under Suliman the law giver was way superior then that of the West. It has to be noted that those Islamic cultures were far more tolerant than the Islamic countries that come to mind in todays world.
tenneman wrote:
I am retired and engaged as a substitute teacher in a large New England high school. Although I'm called in for all subjects my specialty is American and World history in which I have a Bachelor of Arts degree.

On many occasions I have received lesson plans enforcing only what may be the positive character of Islam. It became obvious that the intent of even discussing Islam was to thwart the Jihad tenets of the ideology in the minds of the students.

Regarding the subject of terrorism the plans included documentaries of Timothy McVeigh and the nutty white genius pipe bomber with the Polish name. Twenty five thousand plus terrorist attacks by Muslims and not one teacher brave enough to teach the truth.

America's liberals have mastered the art of whitewashing the causes they care about. Led by rich white elites who profit by supporting the "underdogs," their movement thrives by painting a picture that does not jibe with reality.

Their latest obsession is the "peaceful" religion of Islam and they are going to great lengths to be certain America's young students see that all of those terrorists, all of those oppressive Islamic regimes and militant organizations really have nothing to do with the religion as a whole. They persist in referencing Islam as a religion as opposed to the political system it actually is.

In one of our classes I had to show a video of a beautiful white American, upper class, Dallas Texas female preparing to do the pilgrimage to Mecca. She declared herself a Muslim and wore a designer head scarf which complemented her fashion motif.

She flew first class to Saudi Arabia and was greeted by male Saudi dignitaries who treated her as if she was the First Lady. She never once was shown with the thousands in the procession to the icon.

Having never seen such an obvious example of propaganda I spoke to the teacher soon afterward. His response was, "the kids get so much of the bad stuff in the news." Now this boob was the product of liberally controlled "higher education." I just walked away, not wishing to be an undesirable as I enjoy working with the kids.

In my defense, after the film was over my exact words to the class of 12 females and 8 males was, "Hopefully you guys know this is absolute bull shit." To my surprise, after hysterical laughing they they assured me they knew better. Right before the bell rang I said, "Praise Allah and pass the ammunition," which garnered more laughs.

tenneman
I am retired and engaged as a substitute teacher i... (show quote)

Reply
Aug 18, 2015 17:46:29   #
payne1000
 
tenneman wrote:
Islam cannot be truly vetted via wiki. If one is to diagnose the reality of Islam he/she must engage the Qur'an, Hadith, and other texts all in concert with the history of Mohammad and the Middle East.

The exact Qur'anic verbage, regarding the jihad tenets, does not lend itself to any other interpretation than the one clearly stated. This exact form of intolerance is taught in all of the Madrassas to children, begining at 9 years of age.


It's a seminary. It's where students of different ages, as young as nine or ten, go to learn religious education and to be schooled first of all in reading and then in religious studies. Unfortunately the madrassas--thousands all over the Muslim world--are where Muslim children are taught the vitals of jihad.

The reality is that while active jihadists are a minority in the one and a half billion Muslims populating planet Earth all polls show that minority approaches a number larger than the population of North America and they base their actions in an exact form of Islamic theology, while in the ascendancy throughout the Islamic world. Factor that by the reality that nowhere in Islam is there a significant anti-jihad, anti-al Qaeda, or anti-bin Laden—---recently dispatched to meet his 72 virgins in the Garden------movement; while Muslims worldwide rioted over cartoons in a Danish newspaper and remarks by the Pope, they have never rioted over Osama bin Laden’s supposed hijacking of their faith. Remember the thousands of Muslims gathering in D.C a few months back? There were many placards being raised yet not one sign/placard demonstrated anti-jihad sentiments.

There is no way to misinterpret the jihad tenets. They can only be ignored or changed by the decision making mullahs in Mecca and Medina and those folks are big jihad supporters.

tenneman
Islam cannot be truly vetted via wiki. If one is t... (show quote)


Show me where Muslims in recent history have killed as many Christians and Jews as Christians and Jews have killed Muslims in the Middle East in the last dozen years? Muslims would have to have killed over a million Christians and Jews to match the death toll of Muslims killed by the U.S./Israel alliance. Show me the figures of how many Christian and Jews Muslims have killed?
You can't count 9/11 because it has never been proven who did that job.

Reply
Aug 18, 2015 17:50:31   #
payne1000
 
saltwind 78 wrote:
tenement, I was a US History teacher and Modern world history teacher as well. Islam is one of those ideas that changes with time and place. It was way ahead of the West during the middle ages. The level of civilization in Muslim Spain, Bagdad and the Ottoman Empire under Suliman the law giver was way superior then that of the West. It has to be noted that those Islamic cultures were far more tolerant than the Islamic countries that come to mind in todays world.


Did it ever occur to you that Muslims might be upset for the illegal "Shock and Awe Bombing" they received in Iraq? They also know they were falsely blamed for 9/11. That would piss off any race/religion.

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Aug 19, 2015 07:58:52   #
saltwind 78 Loc: Murrells Inlet, South Carolina
 
Any Muslim deaths caused by war with the West and or Israel occurred because of muslims with the exception of Iraq which was a Bush thing. Jihadist murder against the rest of the world including Muslims is horrific! POWs burnt in a cage, babes murdered in their parents arms, African villages plundered, raped and murdered, these are the actions of psychopaths. You blame the rest of the world for defending themselves. You say the real monsters are the Jews, for being able to defend themselves successfully against these beasts.
As far as the crazies go, I remember a phrase we used to have in Nam, " kill 'em all and let G-d sort out the good ones".That is for the Hezbollah, Hamas', ISIS and those that seek to turn the world into a pure hell!
payne1000 wrote:
Show me where Muslims in recent history have killed as many Christians and Jews as Christians and Jews have killed Muslims in the Middle East in the last dozen years? Muslims would have to have killed over a million Christians and Jews to match the death toll of Muslims killed by the U.S./Israel alliance. Show me the figures of how many Christian and Jews Muslims have killed?
You can't count 9/11 because it has never been proven who did that job.

Reply
 
 
Aug 19, 2015 09:45:46   #
payne1000
 
saltwind 78 wrote:
Any Muslim deaths caused by war with the West and or Israel occurred because of muslims with the exception of Iraq which was a Bush thing. Jihadist murder against the rest of the world including Muslims is horrific! POWs burnt in a cage, babes murdered in their parents arms, African villages plundered, raped and murdered, these are the actions of psychopaths. You blame the rest of the world for defending themselves. You say the real monsters are the Jews, for being able to defend themselves successfully against these beasts.
As far as the crazies go, I remember a phrase we used to have in Nam, " kill 'em all and let G-d sort out the good ones".That is for the Hezbollah, Hamas', ISIS and those that seek to turn the world into a pure hell!
Any Muslim deaths caused by war with the West and ... (show quote)


The real monsters are the Zionists, not the Jews. When you keep deliberately ignoring that distinction, it is an intentional troll-like tactic to make it appear that I hate Jews.
Bush had little to do with causing the war in Iraq. The Zionist neocons were the catalyst for that war. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6oJUnG3Z6WI

It was these guys

Zionist neocons of PNAC
Zionist neocons of PNAC...

More Zionist Neocons who pushed for war with Iraq.
More Zionist Neocons who pushed for war with Iraq....

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Aug 19, 2015 12:04:23   #
saltwind 78 Loc: Murrells Inlet, South Carolina
 
U tube has been sighted by the ADL as carrying thousands of anti Semitic messages. They have refused to consider removing or not permitting these messages to continue. As I have said over and over again, anybody can post anything on the web. If you want to quote, use recognized authorities on subjects. I much prefer books by scholars without an axe to grind! Payne, You continue to place all hateful blame on Zionists, and defend Muslims. Now you go so far as to say that the monster that committed the Boston Marathon bombing is innocent. You clearly have an axe to grind and it is anti Semitic! Not all anti Zionists are anti Semitic, but all anti semites are anti Zionists.
I don't look at quotes that I know beyond a shadow of a doubt are false. I wouldn't look at a post that says that the earth is flat or that aliens are among us. I believe that you do hate Jews. Your outrageous claims make it obvious to me and others that read your posts. The large majority of Jewish people in this country, and around the world support Israel in its fight against those that seek to destroy it. I among these Jews, and will always be.
payne1000 wrote:
The real monsters are the Zionists, not the Jews. When you keep deliberately ignoring that distinction, it is an intentional troll-like tactic to make it appear that I hate Jews.
Bush had little to do with causing the war in Iraq. The Zionist neocons were the catalyst for that war. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6oJUnG3Z6WI

It was these guys

Reply
Aug 19, 2015 13:24:28   #
tenneman
 
From Wicki:
"Within Islamic jurisprudence, jihad is usually taken to mean military exertion against non-believer/non-Muslim/Muslim combatants who insulted Islam. The ultimate purpose of military jihad is debated, both within the Islamic community and without. Jihad is the only form of warfare permissible in Islamic law and may be declared against illegal works, terrorists, criminal groups, rebels, apostates, and leaders or states who oppress Muslims. Most Muslims today interpret Jihad as only a defensive form of warfare."

The first sentence requires one to research what exactly is an "insult" to Islam. If you have the time you will find that all of the behavior of non-Muslims is an "insult" to Islam. The list is simply to long to cover in this reply.


I found it instructive when comparing the Islamic condemnation of terrorism with Christianity’s condemnation of murder. I’ll give you a hint which the progressive media establishment cannot get their heads around: the Islamic doctrine’s definition of “innocent” does not coincide with Webster’s.

While non-Muslim Westerners assume they know what is meant by “terrorism,” “innocent” and “civilians,” these are hotly debated terms in the Islamic world. Anjem Choudary, leader of a British Islamic group explained it quite clearly to an interviewer when responding to questions about the July 7, 2005 London bombings. He explained that victims of the affair were not innocent because they were not Muslims: “When we say innocent people we mean Muslims. As far as non-Muslims are concerned they have not accepted Islam. As far as we are concerned, that is a crime against God…… As far as Muslims are concerned you are innocent if you are Muslim. Then you are innocent in the eyes of God. If you are non-Muslim, then you are guilty in the eyes of God.”

If you check out the position of the Islamic spiritual gurus in Mecca and Medina you will find the fore mentioned at the core of their "jurisprudence."

tenneman

Reply
Aug 19, 2015 13:40:34   #
saltwind 78 Loc: Murrells Inlet, South Carolina
 
I thought that jihad is meant to mean an internal struggle. The secondary meaning in a struggle against non Muslims.I think that different Muslims view jihad in different ways. In general, I think you are correct.
tenneman wrote:
From Wicki:
"Within Islamic jurisprudence, jihad is usually taken to mean military exertion against non-believer/non-Muslim/Muslim combatants who insulted Islam. The ultimate purpose of military jihad is debated, both within the Islamic community and without. Jihad is the only form of warfare permissible in Islamic law and may be declared against illegal works, terrorists, criminal groups, rebels, apostates, and leaders or states who oppress Muslims. Most Muslims today interpret Jihad as only a defensive form of warfare."

The first sentence requires one to research what exactly is an "insult" to Islam. If you have the time you will find that all of the behavior of non-Muslims is an "insult" to Islam. The list is simply to long to cover in this reply.


I found it instructive when comparing the Islamic condemnation of terrorism with Christianity’s condemnation of murder. I’ll give you a hint which the progressive media establishment cannot get their heads around: the Islamic doctrine’s definition of “innocent” does not coincide with Webster’s.

While non-Muslim Westerners assume they know what is meant by “terrorism,” “innocent” and “civilians,” these are hotly debated terms in the Islamic world. Anjem Choudary, leader of a British Islamic group explained it quite clearly to an interviewer when responding to questions about the July 7, 2005 London bombings. He explained that victims of the affair were not innocent because they were not Muslims: “When we say innocent people we mean Muslims. As far as non-Muslims are concerned they have not accepted Islam. As far as we are concerned, that is a crime against God…… As far as Muslims are concerned you are innocent if you are Muslim. Then you are innocent in the eyes of God. If you are non-Muslim, then you are guilty in the eyes of God.”

If you check out the position of the Islamic spiritual gurus in Mecca and Medina you will find the fore mentioned at the core of their "jurisprudence."

tenneman
From Wicki: br "Within Islamic jurisprudence,... (show quote)

Reply
 
 
Aug 19, 2015 14:05:06   #
payne1000
 
tenneman wrote:
From Wicki:
"Within Islamic jurisprudence, jihad is usually taken to mean military exertion against non-believer/non-Muslim/Muslim combatants who insulted Islam. The ultimate purpose of military jihad is debated, both within the Islamic community and without. Jihad is the only form of warfare permissible in Islamic law and may be declared against illegal works, terrorists, criminal groups, rebels, apostates, and leaders or states who oppress Muslims. Most Muslims today interpret Jihad as only a defensive form of warfare."

The first sentence requires one to research what exactly is an "insult" to Islam. If you have the time you will find that all of the behavior of non-Muslims is an "insult" to Islam. The list is simply to long to cover in this reply.


I found it instructive when comparing the Islamic condemnation of terrorism with Christianity’s condemnation of murder. I’ll give you a hint which the progressive media establishment cannot get their heads around: the Islamic doctrine’s definition of “innocent” does not coincide with Webster’s.

While non-Muslim Westerners assume they know what is meant by “terrorism,” “innocent” and “civilians,” these are hotly debated terms in the Islamic world. Anjem Choudary, leader of a British Islamic group explained it quite clearly to an interviewer when responding to questions about the July 7, 2005 London bombings. He explained that victims of the affair were not innocent because they were not Muslims: “When we say innocent people we mean Muslims. As far as non-Muslims are concerned they have not accepted Islam. As far as we are concerned, that is a crime against God…… As far as Muslims are concerned you are innocent if you are Muslim. Then you are innocent in the eyes of God. If you are non-Muslim, then you are guilty in the eyes of God.”

If you check out the position of the Islamic spiritual gurus in Mecca and Medina you will find the fore mentioned at the core of their "jurisprudence."

tenneman
From Wicki: br "Within Islamic jurisprudence,... (show quote)


Promoting a religious war through lies and misinformation is the most despicable agenda I can imagine. You and many others on this forum are guilty, Tenneman. If there was a God, I think it would deal harshly with your ilk.

Reply
Aug 19, 2015 14:10:15   #
payne1000
 
saltwind 78 wrote:
U tube has been sighted by the ADL as carrying thousands of anti Semitic messages. They have refused to consider removing or not permitting these messages to continue. As I have said over and over again, anybody can post anything on the web. If you want to quote, use recognized authorities on subjects. I much prefer books by scholars without an axe to grind! Payne, You continue to place all hateful blame on Zionists, and defend Muslims. Now you go so far as to say that the monster that committed the Boston Marathon bombing is innocent. You clearly have an axe to grind and it is anti Semitic! Not all anti Zionists are anti Semitic, but all anti semites are anti Zionists.
I don't look at quotes that I know beyond a shadow of a doubt are false. I wouldn't look at a post that says that the earth is flat or that aliens are among us. I believe that you do hate Jews. Your outrageous claims make it obvious to me and others that read your posts. The large majority of Jewish people in this country, and around the world support Israel in its fight against those that seek to destroy it. I among these Jews, and will always be.
U tube has been sighted by the ADL as carrying tho... (show quote)


Blind loyalty to a morally corrupt political movement is what caused the German people and the rest of the world to suffer through a horrible war which killed 60 million.
How many have died and will eventually die in the wars brought on by Zionism?

Reply
Aug 19, 2015 15:02:50   #
saltwind 78 Loc: Murrells Inlet, South Carolina
 
I think that Tenneman makes a good point. As he said it is a debatable topic in Islam. Certainly not all Muslims agree with this, but I bet that the large majority of Islamic Jihadist do.
payne1000 wrote:
Promoting a religious war through lies and misinformation is the most despicable agenda I can imagine. You and many others on this forum are guilty, Tenneman. If there was a God, I think it would deal harshly with your ilk.

Reply
Aug 19, 2015 15:48:46   #
payne1000
 
saltwind 78 wrote:
I think that Tenneman makes a good point. As he said it is a debatable topic in Islam. Certainly not all Muslims agree with this, but I bet that the large majority of Islamic Jihadist do.


You're a member of Tennemen's ilk. My reply to him applies to you as well.

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