Glaucon

"Mommy, Timmy hit me first."

petertimber

How can there be reasonable exchanges which lead to nowhere since we are all bound by rules,regulations, policies and procedures to inconsummate bastards who would rule and not obey their own rules and hide behind titles that mean refined enslavement save for their tribe and kin. Humankind cannot tolerate rationale behavior for to long lest they go bonkers trying to figure out their next need or want, real or imagined, physical or mental etc etc etcuntil they breathe their last hoping that they do not end up being a ball of dust in somebody's living room. I just want God to exist in reality to make sense to my breathing in and out.

Airforceone

But why there had to be a mind set that created this type of ideology. I attempt to research through actual bills sponsored by particular legislators , I follow up how legislators votes. I read these bills and yes sometimes you create a perceptions of it's intended purpose of helping poor, middle class, wealthy, or corporate elite.

But if you read these right or left propaganda sites and then read actually what is being debated in congress you form a perceptions that's not reality. But by debating with responsible people on the left or right then perceptions can actually become reality of it's intended purpose.

But when you read birther, brown shirts, chemtrials, and any of this crazy talk and you actually believe this BS how can you get to reality.

Airforceone

I am not saying that democrats did not vote for the patriot act or homeland security, it was all based on 9/11 and this country was in fear of another attack. What would the Bush administration through Chaney and his henchman had done to any legislator that spoke out against this Patriot Act. You would have been destroyed so it was political suicide to vote against it. So why would you just point out the left for voting for it and forget to mention who wrote it and who sponsored it.

Glaucon

I am a very optimistic person and what your thoughts seem to be very pessimistic. I agree with most of what you say, but with some optimism about the process. I am convinced that humans are capable of much amazing reasoning and automatic behavior when they begin to understand the way our human minds have evolved, how they work and why they don’t work.
.One example of an automatic bias that all humans have is the confirmation bias; we all seek out information that supports what we already believe and avoid information that refutes what we already believe. That bias is true of all humans and most humans are not aware of it, its effects on their attempts at reasoning and how to manage the biases so that it dose us and humanity the least possible harm. There are lists of these automatic biases all we humans share and of which we are mostly unaware.

I think you stated the fundamental human dilemma very well in your last sentence and I think you should begin a new thread to exchange views and beliefs about that issue.

If you are interested, look up biases and heuristics on Wikipedia for a list of human, automatic biases .

Glaucon

I agree with most of what you said. I think we humans now have access to the findings that have fundamentally changed or understand how our minds work.

Most people on this site seem to be only interested in supporting their own views, but if you are the exception and want to know some amazing things that have been discovered in the past few years, read, Thinking fast and slow by Daniel Kahneman, it change much of my understanding about how the human mind actually works and why it often doesn't work.

Airforceone

Thanks anything that will help me understand why people vote against there own self interest

petertimber

Anything beyond the 7 basic approbations of mankind is a conclusion which, for most people is a place where they tired of thinking. Add to this is the problem with the gene pool where there is a severe shortage of lifeguards.

Glaucon

I feel your emotions, but the intensions and meaning of your very comments are confused and/or confusing.

Glaucon

Being serious, I suggest that maybe we are not clear on their motivations and what they consider to be their best interests.

In the Nazi concentration camps, some of the inmates made crude swasticas (sp?) into arm bands and wore them to identify themselves with their aggressor, Nazis) thinking that really bending over to their abusers might cause them to be spared . It didn't work and doesn't work.

Glaucon

I don't understand what you are trying to say. That may be my fault or yours. I am interested in what you are trying to say and I will appreciate it if you will try again to say it in a way I will understand and I will try to listen very carefully and do my best to understand.

petertimber

whats not to understand? The words speak for themselves and mean what you divine them to be.

Glaucon

You sound more like a Tarot card reader or a psychic than someone who is interested in an respectful sharing of ideas, information and opinions.

Were your insults intentional? I am asking because some of your previous comments seemed rational and useful/ and this one sounded like intentional insults.

petertimber

So instead of dealing with what I say you ask me to elaborate on my statements while you sit back and contribute nothing to the conversation....You certainly could have formulated some thoughts on what I stated beyond asking me more questions. You make it sound like Your the teacher and I am the student.

Anigav6969

I have to admit, I read your post above......I don't know what the hell you're saying....it might help to elaborate or explain.....also, you don't use quote / reply, so no one can tell who you're talking to.....maybe you could use a teacher