norte

Rand Paul says no war with Syria without congressional approval

http://www.ajc.com/news/national-govt--politics/rand-paul-says-war-with-syria-without-congressional-approval/LYDAinX7Mo7HBo9G9hLpcK/

Worried for our children Loc: Massachusetts

Rand Paul is entitled to his opinion, but the president does not need congressional approval.

He may want to read the constitutional debates on August 17, 1787.

norte

Worried for our children Loc: Massachusetts

Mr. Buchanan's opinion is duly noted.

However, under the Articles of Confederation, which was "the constitution before the constitution," Congress had the sole power to wage war. The executive, under the Articles, had little power as it was, and in the case of war, had no say in the matter whatsoever.

On August 17, 1787, the delegates debated heavily over war powers. The fear was that by giving the President the sole power to wage war a tyrannical president would use those powers in an abusive manner. Yet, to give Congress the sole power of waging war was inefficient, and had proven to be a poor decision under the Articles of Confederation.


A compromise was needed. The founders needed to create both an efficient system, yet one that used limiting principles, and a system of checks and balances, to protect the nation from a potentially tyrannical executive.

The power to wage war was granted to the President, and the power to declare war was vested in the Congress. The President, as a result of those debates, was granted the power to wage war whenever and wherever he deemed necessary. However, that war could only be formally declared by Congress. If Congress disagreed with the President's decision to wage war, we are reminded that the Congress has the power of the purse strings, and has the power to deny the President the funding to wage war. So, though the President has the power to wage war as he believes is necessary, that power is checked by the Congressional power of being able to defund the war.

If a President continues to wage war, even after congressional attempts to cut off funding, the Congress also has the power to impeach the President as well.

An added point is that both Barbary Wars, waged by Presidents Thomas Jefferson, and James Madison, were undeclared wars. If the President must wait for a declaration of war in order to wage war, then that would be to suggest that Thomas Jefferson, and the father of the Constitution James Madison, acted unconstitutionally to wage war against the Barbary Pirates. Which of course, they did not.

norte

The devil can cite Scripture for his purpose.

Worried for our children Loc: Massachusetts

There's something to be said about that quote too, perhaps another time.

You're a strange fellow, norte. Always quick with a quote or an article. Are you a computer program?

norte

A quotation at the right moment is like bread to the famished.

Worried for our children Loc: Massachusetts

Which implies a rarity; you throw out loaves of bread.

norte

War is when your government tells you who the enemy is. A revolution is when you figure it out yourself.

Worried for our children Loc: Massachusetts

The boisterous sea of liberty is never without a wave.

norte

Of all the enemies to public liberty war is, perhaps, the most to be dreaded, because it comprises and develops the germ of every other. War is the parent of armies; from these proceed debts and taxes; and armies, and debts, and taxes are the known instruments for bringing the many under the domination of the few. In war, too, the discretionary power of the Executive is extended; its influence in dealing out offices, honors, and emoluments is multiplied; and all the means of seducing the minds, are added to those of subduing the force, of the people. The same malignant aspect in republicanism may be traced in the inequality of fortunes, and the opportunities of fraud, growing out of a state of war, and in the degeneracy of manners and of morals engendered by both. No nation could preserve its freedom in the midst of continual warfare.

Worried for our children Loc: Massachusetts

Of All the enemies to public liberty, war is, perhaps, the most to be dreaded, because it comprises and develops the germ of every other. War is the parent of armies; from these proceed debts and taxes; and armies, and debts, and taxes are the known instruments for bring­ing the many under the domination of the few….

(I'm a Madison fan as well)

The Constitution expressly and exclusively vests in the Legislature the power of declaring a state of war … the power of raising armies … the power of creating offices….

A delegation of such powers [to the President] would have struck, not only at the fabric of our Constitution, but at the foundation of all well organized and well checked governments.

The separation of the power of declaring war from that of con­ducting it, is wisely contrived to exclude the danger of its being declared for the sake of its being conducted.

The separation of the power of raising armies from the power of commanding them, is intended to prevent the raising of armies for the sake of commanding them.

The separation of the power of creating offices from that of filling them, is an essential guard against the temptation to create offices for the sake of gratifying favorites or multiplying dependents.

She has abstained from interference in the concerns of others, even when conflict has been for principles to which she clings, as to the last vital drop that visits the heart. She has seen that probably for centuries to come, all the contests of that Aceldama the European world, will be contests of inveterate power, and emerging right. Wherever the standard of freedom and Independence has been or shall be unfurled, there will her heart, her benedictions and her prayers be. But she goes not abroad, in search of monsters to destroy. She is the well-wisher to the freedom and independence of all. She is the champion and vindicator only of her own. She will commend the general cause by the countenance of her voice, and the benignant sympathy of her example. She well knows that by once enlisting under other banners than her own, were they even the banners of foreign independence, she would involve herself beyond the power of extrication, in all the wars of interest and intrigue, of individual avarice, envy, and ambition, which assume the colors and usurp the standard of freedom. The fundamental maxims of her policy would insensibly change from liberty to force.... She might become the dictatress of the world. She would be no longer the ruler of her own spirit.... [America’s] glory is not dominion, but liberty.

norte

One man with courage is a majority.

Quakerwidow Loc: Chestertown, MD

As has been amply demonstrated during my 68 years.

Quakerwidow Loc: Chestertown, MD

If only we had paid attention to this.