thebigp

-58JH.,B58
President Donald Trump's "wall" along the U.S.-Mexico border would be a series of fences and walls that would cost as much as $21.6 billion, and take more than three years to construct, based on a U.S. Department of Homeland Security internal report seen by Reuters on Thursday.
The report's estimated price-tag is much higher than a $12-billion figure cited by Trump in his campaign and estimates as high as $15 billion from Republican House Speaker Paul Ryan and Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell.
The report is expected to be presented to Department of Homeland Security (DHS) Secretary John Kelly in coming days, although the administration will not necessarily take actions it recommends.
The plan lays out what it would take to seal the border in three phases of construction of fences and walls covering just over 1,250 miles (2,000 km) by the end of 2020.
With 654 miles (1,046 km) of the border already fortified, the new construction would extend almost the length of the entire border.
Many cost estimates and timelines have been floated since Trump campaigned on the promise of building a wall. The report seen by Reuters is the work of a group commissioned by Kelly as a final step before moving forward with requesting U.S. taxpayer funds from Congress and getting started on construction.
A DHS spokeswoman said the department does "not comment on or confirm the potential existence of pre-decisional, deliberative documents."
A White House spokeswoman said it would be "premature" to comment on a report that has not officially been presented to the president.
The report said the first phase would be the smallest, targeting sections covering 26 miles (42 km) near San Diego, California; El Paso, Texas; and in Texas's Rio Grande Valley.
The report assumes DHS would get funding from Congress by April or May, giving the department sufficient time to secure contractors and begin construction by September. Trump has said Congress should fund the wall upfront, but that Mexico will reimburse U.S. taxpayers. Mexico has said it will not pay.
Several U.S. congressional delegations are visiting the border this month to assess funding needs, according to several people familiar with the travel plans.
The report shows the U.S. government has begun seeking waivers to address environmental laws on building in some areas. It also shows the government has begun working with existing contractors and planning steel purchases for the project.
Trump told law enforcement officials on Wednesday, "The wall is getting designed right now."
The report accounted for the time and cost of acquiring private land, one reason for its steep price increase compared to estimates from Trump and members of Congress.
Bernstein Research, an investment research group that tracks material costs, has said that uncertainties around the project could drive its cost up to as much as $25 billion.
The second phase of construction proposed in the report would cover 151 miles (242 km) of border in and around the Rio Grande Valley; Laredo, Texas; Tucson, Arizona; El Paso, Texas and Big Bend, Texas. The third phase would cover an unspecified 1,080 miles (1,728 km), essentially sealing off the entire U.S.-Mexico border.
BARRIERS TO CONSTRUCTION
The report lays out costs to cover the border with barriers, but funding constraints and legal battles are likely to place limits on those plans.
It also does not account for major physical barriers, like mountains, in areas where it would not be feasible to build.
A source familiar with the plans said DHS may have to go to court to seek eminent domain in order to acquire some of the private land needed to cover the final and most ambitious phase.
The first phase, estimated to cost only $360 million, could be a relatively easy way for Trump to satisfy supporters eager to see him make good on his campaign promises to limit illegal migration. But the rest of the construction will be markedly more expensive, covering a much larger stretch of land, much of it privately owned or inaccessible by road.
In addition to seeking eminent domain and environmental waivers, the U.S. government would also have to meet the requirements of the International Boundary and Water Commission, a U.S.-Mexico pact over shared waters. The report estimated that agreement alone could bring the cost from $11 million per mile to $15 million per mile in one area.
SOURCE-NEWSMAX, BERNSTEIN RESEARCH

THUNDERBOLT

I would like to see the "Bids to Build the Wall".
How many companies can you hire at the same time?
Seems to me ,three companies working on three sections at a time...
One in CA, 2 in Texas. Do the math.
Who is designing the wall?
It just looks to me that estimates from the companies that are
going to be building has yet to be published.
All the reports do NOT really defend their cost estimates.

Finally, how about a contest for Americans to submit their "WALL IDEA"
design?

I'm just sayin'
ThunderBolt

BTW: Here are some more facts about border walls around the world:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3205724/How-65-countries-erected-security-walls-borders.html

zombietracker Loc: Fema region 6

Its still cheaper than paying for the illegal immigration.

pappadeux Loc: Phoenix AZ

By that time we will be broke and overrun ! Wait a minute, we already have. Wake the Friggin up America !!

permafrost Loc: Minnesota

There were 11.1 million unauthorized immigrants living in the United States as of March 2011, unchanged from the previous two years and a continuation of the sharp decline from its peak of 12 million in 2008. This decline has been the first significant decrease following two decades of growth up to 2007.[1]

The reduction has been driven mainly by a decrease in the number of new immigrants from Mexico, the single largest source. Net immigration from Mexico to the U.S. has stopped and possibly reversed since 2010. At its peak in 2000, about 770,000 immigrants arrived annually from Mexico; the majority arrived illegally. By 2010, the inflow had dropped to about 140,000—a majority of whom arrived as legal immigrants.[1]

One immigration research group reported that the number of illegal immigrants in the U.S. was 12.5 million in August 2007 at its peak. This decreased by 1.3 million to 11.2 million by July 2008 (11%) due to either increased law enforcement or fewer job opportunities.[2] Based on the Department of Homeland Security estimates in 2009, unauthorized immigrant population living in the United States decreased to 10.8 million in January 2009 from 11.6 million in January 2008. Between 2000 and 2009, the unauthorized population grew by 27 percent.[3]

Fox News hosted Washington Times staff writer Stephen Dinan to criticize the Obama administration on border enforcement, arguing that the 2 million immigrants deported by the Obama administration is "the wrong number" to use to judge whether the administration's enforcement policies have been successful because very few of those deported were longstanding undocumented immigrants. However, an immigration policy focused on apprehending and deporting undocumented immigrants who contribute daily to the U.S. economy and have longstanding ties to the country would cost billions of dollars and stifle economic growth in the United States.

Ricko Loc: Florida

perma-last paragraph would be true if that were really happening. Trump is deporting the criminal element and nobody else. Do not believe they contribute much to our country other than to inflict pain on their victims. The Obama numbers are false. They counted those apprehended at the border and not allowed into the country in the first place as a deportation which is BS. Figures lie and liars figure. America First !!!!

permafrost Loc: Minnesota

Ricko.


some arguments will never go away..

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2016/oct/21/donald-trump/trump-right-deportation-numbers-wrong-talks-about-/


Here’s what’s known about deportation numbers.

The Department of Homeland Security issues yearly statistics on enforcement actions. The latest available is for fiscal year 2014, which is Oct. 1, 2013, to Sept. 30, 2014.

From fiscal years 2009 to 2014, there have been more than 2.4 million removals, according to DHS data. Fiscal year 2009 includes data for a few months in which Obama was not in office.

Still, if we add just the full fiscal years in which he has been office, and for which data is available (2010-2014), there have been over 2 million removals. That corroborates Trump’s claim that "under Obama, millions of people have been moved out of this country."

U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement also issues removal data. But its removal totals equals the sum of two actions: "removals" and "returns."

Removals account for people moved out of the country based on a formal order from a judge. Returns track people who were encountered by ICE, but who chose to depart the United States prior to a resolution of their immigration case.

Even then, ICE data shows that more than 2 million people have been moved out of the country while Obama has been in office, supporting part of Trump’s claim.

‘Nobody knows about it, nobody talks about it’

In the debate, however, Trump also claimed these millions of deportations have not been spoken about.

"Nobody knows about it, nobody talks about it," Trump said.

But there is extensive reporting that shows otherwise. For years, news outlets have reported on Obama’s deportation numbers.

Some examples:

2010: The Washington Post reported that "the Obama administration is deporting record numbers of illegal immigrants."

2012: NPR reported that the Obama administration "deported a record 1.5 million" in his first term.

2014: An analysis by The New York Times found that since Obama became president, "two-thirds of the nearly two million deportation cases involve people who had committed minor infractions, including traffic violations, or had no criminal record at all."

2016: The New York Times reported in June that Obama "has carried out many more deportations than previous presidents, setting a record of more than 2.4 million formal removals."

Even immigration advocates have called out Obama for his deportation record, challenging his campaign promise to provide a path to citizenship for undocumented immigrants.

Obama was dubbed the "Deporter-in-Chief" in 2014 by Janet Murguía, president of the National Council of La Raza, an immigrant advocacy group.

"For the president, I think his legacy is at stake here," Murguía told Politico in March 2014. "We consider him the deportation president, or the deporter-in-chief."

We pointed out the Politico article to Trump’s campaign and a spokesperson said, "That was published over two years ago." But Trump’s claim at the debate did not specify that deportations under Obama are not currently being talked about -- which would still be an inaccurate statement.

Obama addressed the "Deporter-In-Chief" moniker in a 2014 interview with Jorge Ramos, a Fusion and Univision anchor. Ramos told him 2 million deportations under his presidency had destroyed families and that he was called "Deporter-in-Chief." Obama said it was "not true" when Ramos said he could’ve stopped deportations.

"There certainly has been a lot of folks who have focused on Obama’s deportation record," said William Stock, an immigration lawyer and president of the American Immigration Lawyers Association. "No one can argue that not only have there been hundreds of thousands of removals each year, but there have also been a lot of people talking about those removals."

The number of deportations under Obama have been raised by the press, advocacy groups and even at congressional hearings with Sen. Jeff Sessions, R-Ala., a Trump adviser, Stock said.

Our ruling

Trump said "Nobody knows about it, nobody talks about it, but under Obama, millions of people have been moved out of this country, they've been deported."

More than 2.4 million people have been deported under Obama’s presidency. But Trump’s claim that "nobody knows about it, nobody talks about it," is completely wrong. Not only is federal data issued about it on a yearly basis, there has also been extensive media coverage about it. Immigration advocates have called out the president for it and congressional hearings on deportations have also taken place.

Trump’s claim is partly right. We rate it Half True.