Docadhoc Loc: Elsewhere

One problem is people believing we live in a democracy. We do not. We live in a constitutional republic.

HedgeHog

Clarification: You're supposed to be living in a constitutional republic. There is nothing "free" about America today, except "free" stuff for the "masses". Which America never had before. America was never made up of the "masses". A funny thing happened on the way to the future.

Docadhoc Loc: Elsewhere

In a democracy it is possible for the government to control the citizens. In a constitutional republic the government can only control if allowed. If people exercised their voting power as a cohesive unit, the government would be under control of the people. However, that requires people to agree on issues. As long as government keeps us divided there will not be enough agreement to control said government.

Confusion is job security to career politicians.

nwtk2007 Loc: Texas

The US was formed based upon intelligent responsibility. The freed slaves were given that as opportunity. Any perceived oppression is now, only an excuse for not being responsible. Of course, the lazy whites et al are no better.

America is for the ones who take responsibility seriously. The rest will, naturally, suffer.

HedgeHog

A democracy, or if you will, constitutional republic, can only work if the electorate are responsible voters. Either can become a tyranny, as Ben Franklin hinted.

I define democracy as government by the governed. That definition would include a constitutional republic. Madison and the other founders knew the US Constitution, and thus government, was an experiment; Madison referred to a "Theory of a Free Constitution", wondering if it was possible (after all, history has shown democracy's pitfalls) for any people to "wield the power of the sword" over themselves. That is, without the involvement of a disinterested third party.

There are major flaws in democracy, and it doesn't work in the same way for every kinds of people. I believe a necessary factor is that the people be self-reliant---a "substantial and sensible yeomanry" as one of the anti-Federalists put it.

Need I point out that "government dependency" is not self-reliance? When a people become government-dependent, their thinking will also be government-dependent. James Q. Wilson even referred to a belief that "government shapes character".
Reminiscent of "Hitler Youth" and Komsomol.

nwtk2007 Loc: Texas

I'm wondering if man can "do" democracy, in any form, given population growth and resources which naturally, will become limiting. Or rather, can it be achieved at this point?

HedgeHog

1. The type of democracy depends on the people.

2. Limiting factors of population growth and resources can be alleviated through education (realistic education, not Leftist/Liberal education) and an acknowledgement of a "need for meaning" in one's life. Some find that in God, some in themselves. But it is the same, nonetheless.

nwtk2007 Loc: Texas

So, at this point, is it a pipe dream??

HedgeHog

You mean good government?

I don't know. IF we can eliminate that malignancy of 19th century European philosophical thought, man may be able to establish working governments, not all the same for all peoples, of course. Still, think of governing as a work in progress; as all of man's activities are.

nwtk2007 Loc: Texas

I'm just hoping a "purge" won't be needed to allow for the growth of good government.

HedgeHog

A purge of what? The human race?

nwtk2007 Loc: Texas

Yes. War, basically.

pafret Loc: Northeast

That is insanity, we existed during the cold war with MAD, Mutually Assured Destruction. The cold war ended with the dissolution of the Union of Socialist Soviet Republics but the danger of MAD has multiplied many fold. There are nations such as North Korea, led by a madman, who has an ICBM and Nuclear arsenal. Iran is rapidly approaching the same status. China and Russia both have the same capability and it wouldn't surprise me if Israel also has that weapon. The United Kingdom and France are long time members of the Nukem nations. Pakistan, South Africa and India also are members of the nuclear club.

There is so much animosity between nations that the slightest provocation could set all of them to lobbing bombs at each other and us since the common denominator seems to be, everyone hates the United States. A nuclear exchange between the major powers will clear all life from our hemisphere. The only government likely to emerge is sentient cockroaches.

nwtk2007 Loc: Texas

That's why I'm hoping it isn't necessary. I'm not overly fond of cockroaches.