JerseyStrong

I joined this forum because I hoped to find an unbiased daily digest of political opinion. Currently unemployed in large part I believe because of a less than aggressive economic stimulation from Washington; I have more than enough time in breaks from my job hunt to read and contribute to this forum. Alas, so far, except for one contributor, this forum appears to be one for those who, many of whom appear functionally illiterate, are in need an arena to perpetuate falsehoods in the hope that doing so frequently enough will make them true. Preaching to their choir [or as one contributor I stumbled across put it "they're"; hence my functionally illiterate assessment] might give the poster some comfort does not further a constructive exchange of ideas, and the political discourse but contributes to its stagnancy. In fact, I ruminated for some time, watching on the side line, before registering so that I could make a post for that very reason, but nevertheless I jump into the fray; a lamb, perhaps, among wolves.

A life long Democrat and progressive, but never an ideologue; I long for the days when the conservative point of view was voiced by lettered gentlemen exemplified by William F. Buckley, Jr. instead of today's exemplars: Glenn Beck, Rush Limbaugh [neither of whom qualify as lettered or gentlemen] and the hoard of others of their ilk. For the record, the neo-cons have necessitated I track further to the left than I might historically have had on one position or another solely to achieve balance.

You can expect me to vent my spleen now and again. You can expect me to question your views rather than launch a broad-side challenge to them, and you can expect me to drop a bomb in your midst now and again solely to stir up the pot and get people to think. Know that I want a polite debate on the issues, but you can expect to be called to account when whatever it is you post while it may pass posting rules criteria doesn't pass the scrutiny of reality. To paraphrase the late Sen. Moynihan, we are all entitled to our own opinions, but not our own facts.

Constitutional libertarian Loc: St Croix National Scenic River Way

Why hello mr/ms strong which ever it maybe.

Please elaborate on your definition of Washington stimulation and why you believe it is the cause of not only your but that of 20 million other Americans current lack of employment.

Hehe

Ve'hoe

There is not a problem,, if you can actually back up your points,,, but you already started insulting folks,, less educated perhaps than you,,, which is not the same as intelligent....

Good luck to you though,,,there are libs here that I get along with,,,with very strong opinions,,,so strong that they believe them to be factual,,, simply because they will not look at any other possibility,,,,

I believe the current liberal world is melting away, as the ideology is deteriorating from its own weight,,, while the orchestrators keep denying it,,,, one things for sure,,, things are not well

Dummy Boy Loc: Michigan

I would like to understand too,

...Assuming You get unemployment the only thing you can buy is food, gas and electricity-which does what for the economy? No new jobs of any consequence have been created with this scheme, nor has raising SSA taxes on people trying to save for their children's future.

Should we invest in?:
Alternative Energy-Nope, that didn't work
Immigration Reform-Nope, the government can fire all the border agents
Obamacare-Nope, Everyone lost their insurance and those left with insurance are paying for services that are contrary to their core beliefs or unneeded
Military spending reduction-Nope, cutting projects and personnel has resulted in the Chinese getting itchy trigger fingers
Passing Laws and then Ignoring them-When are we initiating impeachment?
Farming-Price on food has gone up 30% in the last 4 years

Please help me understand what our wonderful representatives have done, in that the real power is in the senate, which is controlled exclusively by the Democrats. And a despotic president.

Constitutional libertarian Loc: St Croix National Scenic River Way

Well yes that is the opinion of many of us on here but I was curious as what a moderate liberal thinks about stimulus spending and what positive benefits it brings to the table.

Dummy Boy Loc: Michigan

Yes, what positive benefits are brought to the table....I vote none.

LAwrence

Another over educated brainwashed snob.

Boo_Boo Loc: Jellystone

Hello Ve'Hoe,
I too notice that a few folks have gone the way of one line, or in some cases, one word insults and forgoing discussions. Perhaps that is what our new member was referencing. I think that when people only insult, then their intelligence is up for questioning. You, have nothing to worry over, you are for the most part a gentleman.

Boo_Boo Loc: Jellystone

Hello and welcome. I look forward to reading your comments and I will allow that at times we all look completely ignorant and at times we all are brilliant. Keep hanging in there and do not be shy. Again, welcome aboard.

Ve'hoe

HAHAHHAHAHHAHHAHA!!!!!

I love that "For the most part" HAHAHAHHAHA

I like that!!

JerseyStrong

Dear Constitutional Libertarian;

I hesitated to include that phrase in my introduction, and did so only to indicate only that I have more free time on my hands than I normally would. My concern was that to open that window would obfuscate fundamental issues, and that fear has been realized by your comment/reply as it appears from my entire introductory statement, you gravitated to it; so I will answer your question but not in specifics as it applies to my case. For the record, what I characterize as inaction is not the cause, certainly, of my own unemployment. I lost my position due to the vagaries of the market, and the onus remains upon me to find a new position and it rests on my shoulders alone.

As a rule however, it is the responsibility of government to provide an environment: economic, policy, and infra-structurally that engenders growth and provides business with a reasonably sound arena within which to operate. It has not done that. Wall St. is doing well, but Wall St. is not Main St. Sometimes the pump needs priming. Our congress has not in my opinion done anything to improve the dismal economic conditions within which we find ourselves; in fact, I maintain that the economy has improved [as little as it has] despite the inaction of the congress. Culpable too, our president appears unable to do what is necessary through personal engagement with members of the congress to move it as successful past presidents have. [From history, L.B.J.comes to mind. Whether or not one agrees with his politics, he certainly knew how to get what he wanted out of the legislature.] In fairness to Mr. Obama, he appears stymied by ideologues who are in general unwilling to compromise; notwithstanding the recent Rep. Paul Ryan and Sen. Patty Murray budget agreement which might be a nascent opening up to the reality of political compromise which Washington is so bereft of late. Likewise, Mr. Obama is dealing with an opposition members of which on the day of his first inauguration discussed over a steak dinner how to make the president fail rather than put the benefit of the nation above partisan politics. If you disagree with my fundamental premise, read no further, we have nothing to discuss; if you are willing to consider an alternative to or a moderation of strict constitutional libertarianism whatever that might be for you, we have something to discuss.

The economy has limped along for 5 years. A casual observation of past down turns and subsequent recoveries will show that in its behavior business demands that government prime the pump now and again. What I see now might best be described as a line of swimmers standing at pool's edge each eying one another to see who will jump into the pool first; hesitating because they do not know how close the bottom of that pool might be. Moreover, we have never cut our way out of deficits which seems to me, anyway, to be at the core of the House's, at best, inaction or, at worst obstruction; but we have in fact have grown our way out of deficits, most recently in the 1990s. It seems to me the congress remains focused on an ideologically inspired position with which in principle I do not necessarily disagree; but I think it a discussion that might better be left for fatter times rather then rely on tried and true, Keynesian if you will, levers to stoke the boiler of our economy.

In my own search, I do not see mid-level or entry level [neither of which would describe me,] positions offered save for the occasional internship but instead consistently see senior or master level positions offered. When three or more qualified applicants vie for a position; too many people will walk away from that contest in second, third, or worse place.

Finally, to answer your other question, I am a he.

Ve'hoe

Hmmmm,,,, First,,, good luck on the job hunt,,, despite the bs out of the administration,, it is not a rosy picture,,, been there done that.

That is certainly one way of looking at it,, the Govt "CAN" provide a healthy environment for business,,, but LBJ is the architect for the war on poverty that we are losing,, look at the post of the $15 minimum wage thread!!

Another way to look at it is that govt can do the best when it stays out of the way,,, ie: taxing and regulation (like EPA etc)
While there have to be govt rules, otherwise people will and have destroyed the environment due to greed,,, the govt does best when it stays out of our business.

Example: when I owned my own practice:
I grossed about 300K a year through the office. That is what I paid taxes on. I paid myself $100K, the Employees (2) $100K and $100K for taxes and expenses to include marketing and advertising, if we were to grow.

Once marketing realized gains,,, the taxes went up at the same rate,,, the employees filled all their available time/mental/physical capacity. The business needed another employee,,,,, or further growth couldn't be reached or sustained. That "EXTRA" money came out of my 1/3rd of the money, of course after I paid taxes on it. I hired another employee,,,, she began to work,, income went down initially so I carried her out of my pocket. Soon she started performing and we gained more money in the door through an increased ability to add more patients. Now I needed to recover the income I had lost.
Why, when the money came from my families mouths, out of my pocket, is it the right thing to do, to give the profit then to the employees, who are doing no more work, nor singly responsible for the jump in growth?
I risked the money, I made the investment, the govt increased their own cut as I increased income,,, Everyone "GOT" their money,, it was up to me to make the thing grow, and there is NO govt agency that could have primed the pump,,, because the immediate "income" I gained would have been from some other taxpayers pocket. Though my employees would have benefitted from the intial raise of govt money, they would have done no further work, and the company couldn't sustain that "false growth" since the infrastructure wasn't behind it. Plus, that money, would have done just as much for the economy in the pocket of the original person who earned it,, as it did, coming from the govt,,, to my business, and down to my employee.

Taxes are the one thing the govt do to help business, anything else, is interference or unsustainable growth.
We must have regulation, because some people will do anything for a buck.

Nothing the govt "gives" exists, until they take it out of someone elses pocket.

For the girl who wanted the $15 min wage,, what she is not intelligent enough to see, is that by raising it, she is only raising the level of poverty to a new level.... artificial and unsustainable, primarily due to the cost of goods after that happens. In my example above,,, if the govt raised the minimum wage of my employees,,, what happens?
The business has to pass it on,, it cant come out of the govts portion,,, you go to jail for that. It is my business that I paid $150K for school, to be able to practice.
That only leaves one portion,,, the employees,, if I cant make the investment to jump to the next level of performance, we ALL suffer. If the Govt raids the game by raising taxes or artificially raising wages then the same thing happens,,, growth is stifled,
THAT is what you are experiencing,,, that is why they need Upper level guys,,, to get them out of the govt tar pit...

Boo_Boo Loc: Jellystone

I am glad that you took it as I intended. No insult intended!

Ve'hoe

I have a great respect for humor,,, but so many say mean things and try to hide it as humor,,,funny is funny!!

Constitutional libertarian Loc: St Croix National Scenic River Way

Why thank you Mr Stong you did a fantastic job of detailing how a reasonal sane person would could and should look at our current economic state.

Please know it was never my intent to belittle you in anyway only to generate a non confrontational conversation.

In your opinion which of these 2 options would have had a greater chance of stimulating the economy:

A) spend approximately 1 trillion dollars in an infrastructure stimulus package.
Or
B) reduced corp, business, personal and investment taxes by approximately half of that amount say 500 billion.

If you answer B, you might just be a tea party person.