PeterS

I've always done things for myself and never had a nanny. And I've never voted for anyone who promised me freebies--in fact when I voted for Obama he raised my taxes. Not as much as I wanted but he did raise them. And no, it doesn't suck to be me. In fact being me has always been pretty damn good.

And I have to ask--in 2000 we were give a choice of getting a tax cut or paying down debt. Bush wanted a tax cut and Gore wanted to pay down debt. Who did you vote for? My money is on Bush and I'll bet a large part of the reason is because you were salivating for a tax cut. How are you any different than anyone else Tiny Testicles. You vote for the person who will give you the most and screw everyone else. Ain't that right TT. You are as big a whore as anyone TT you just lack the intellectual capacity to know so and the intellectual integrity to care. Such a shame...

Little Ball of Hate

All right, smarty pants. Just how was Gore going to reduce the deficit? The last five Presidents added to our national debt. We almost had it paid off, in 1980, with just 800 billion in debt. And look at how much oblunder added to our debt. More than all other presidents combined. How much of that do you think was handouts? Record number of people on food stamps. Job participation at it's lowest point in several decades. Wages stagnant. Keep drinking the cool aid, Petey.

PeterS

By applying the surplus to it. That's the only way we can pay off the debt. And if you look at the chart below debt under Clinton it was the only time in modern history where the debt held by the public was lower at the end of a presidency than the beginning.

http://origin.factcheck.org/Images/image/FederalDeficit(1).jpg

And yes in 1980 debt held by the public was about 800B but at the end of Reagan's last term it was over 2.2 trillion proving that you can't cut taxes and increase spending--not unless you want exploding debt as the result. And under Obama spending has been basically flat so what has he done to add to the debt? Obama came in at the beginning of the deepest recession since the great depression. Below is spending from 2008 through 2015.

2008=>2,982.5
2009=>3,517.7
2010=>3,457.1
2011=>3,603.1
2012=>3,537.0
2013=>3,454.6
2014=>3,506.1
2015=>3,688.3

The YoY growth for 2009 through 2015 is 5% total and the lowest for any president since full records have been kept. For example under Bush it was 70.88%

Had he actually cut the budget it would have reduced spending as a percentage of GDP causing the economy to slow down even further than it was. So was he suppose to put us in a deeper recession or try to get us out of the one we were already in? And had he done that do you have any idea what debt would look like than? As ugly as it is now it would have been far far worse...

Cool Breeze

It doesn't take much to destroy your drivel so I'll make it brief. The main enemies of freedom wasn't Elijah Muhammad Malcolm X The Civil Right Movement or the Black Nationalist speeches. The problem was White American Racists and their Allies now put that into.'context' America doesn't really want an informed populace and you are the proof of that.

PeterS

Nicely said! I'll bet they are sorry they taught you to read and write huh! Not only that but you can think too. Now that is a dangerous combination and it's so nice to see it displayed...

CDM Loc: Florida

The Welfare State as is Racism is very much a component of an ideology that is designed to destroy individuality and supplant it with central, collectivist control. If you were an educated Leftist you would know this from sitting in on one or two poli-sci 101's... and in America this underlying Ideology is known as the Democrat Party.

You also are very obviously unable to grasp spherical concepts (which I understand since I learned long ago that Leftists are incapable of spherical thinking) and so, as to deflect away from the deeper arguable implications, therefore reduce or re-context 'welfare' to the simple, very vertical, linear Leftist understanding of it...free shit.

You end this extremely foolish statement with “just saying”... I have got to ask for myself and maybe some others here who might be curious...what the f**k are you saying, exactly. It's all non sequitur to anything I have posted and certainly makes no attempt to address directly any fact based question I have asked.

The welfare state is comprised of 10's of thousands of pages of Leftist Democrat legislation; social engineering to 'eliminate' racism (oh, did I say MY WHITE ASS?) But you and Mr. Cool and all the other Leftists here have yet to address even one, ONE, of the many questions I have asked regarding the current state of the racial union that has, according to you all, not improved even in the face of decades of Democrat social engineering and hundreds of billions of dollars spent. The only reason given so far by Leftists is that all white people are racist. Open and shut.

Address some of my very pertinent questions if you really want to debate or, stick with Mr. Cool; with your intellectual pants below your ass, you cap cocked at an angle and holding your Glock sideways so the casings eject into your face as you're (statistically) killing one of your own people … because that's the vision you've not only crated...but perpetuate.

CDM Loc: Florida

Ball; anyone can find the very argument that Peter S. is trying to hand you with his post up above a shallow assessment of a very complex mechanism. It's posted on thousands of Leftist websites in many forms for the edification of the terminally stupid.

As an aside much of it is designed to camouflage the fact that W.J. Clinton set up the great crash of 2008 and unwittingly assisted Barack Obama in the charade of the lie of his failed presidency; Bush did it. While Bush is guilty of doing little to nothing to patch it up, Obama openly pursued the play-book Leftist Democrat tactic; raise taxes on the middle class, print money and spend your way out (by giving the money to his union and Wall Street buddies?)...essentially amplifying the crippling effect of the ineptitude and mismanagement of his predecessors. He became the champion of 'no managment'.

By the way, there are hundreds of good, solid economic models published, many in economics text books, that demonstrate that debt is not bad. In fact it's useful when applied as part of a growth strategy. It requires only three elements to be properly used; an ongoing income stream, a repayment plan and, most importantly, intelligent management to execute the plan. If our productivity were in the range of 4.5 to 5% (it never again will be if Leftists retain control) and we had a management team in place we could manage the debt as a component of a growth plan. American corporations (those Capitalist Pigs we hear so much about) do it every day. Trump is a maser at it.

Leftists don't think...particularly analytically or critically; they believe only that which is transmitted in the clicking and buzzing from the hive of Collective Central. They regurgitate. And the regurgitation here is that “things would be worse if not for Obama”... Oh, did I say 'my white ass?'

PeterS

I minored in political science and what you say has nothing to do with liberal ideology. Public welfare comes from the principle of common good and establishing a minimum quality of life. If people choose to remain at the minimum that's their choice and irrelevant to the reason welfare exists. And we have more whites on welfare than blacks so if this was an attempt at social engineering it clearly didn't bring about the intended results. And sorry, I don't follow your posts so don't know what questions you are talking about. As for ALL whites being racists--that's not the case, just white conservatives and now that Donald has removed the stigma of PC they seem even more so now.

So does that clear things up!

Loki Loc: Georgia

Now all Fetid Zephyr has to do is get the order correct. Think, read, write. Not "ready, fire, aim."

Loki Loc: Georgia

There are nearly 6 times as many whites as blacks. Percentage-wise, twice as many blacks as whites are on welfare. US citizen Latinos are about the same as whites. Wetbacks are considerably higher, usually due to their anchor babies.
Somali refugees are at just about 90%.

PeterS

The argument I was giving Little Balls was that growth was too flat for the handouts he insulated was causing the debt. And it was. The debt was caused by revenue growth which was tied to the downturn and not from anything Obama was doing...

And I do have some questions for you 1) when was there ever a plan to pay off debt? The only time I ever heard it addressed was in the 2000 election where Gore wanted to pay it down and Bush wanted to cut taxes. We cut taxes 2) When did Obama raise taxes on the middle class? 3) When was productivity ever consistently above 4%? 4) Why are you linking the payment of debt to productivity. For that to happen it has to increase income, either business or personal, and than tax revenue needs to increase accordingly. Increases to productivity no longer go to wages so the only way for it to increase revenue is through taxes on business. Since our effective tax rate on business declines year by year I really don't see that ever happening but if you do I would love to have you explain. Also, if productivity ever did increase revenue enough that we could think about paying down debt I am willing to bet conservatives would demand another tax cut instead of paying on debt. What do you think...

Below are historical tax rates and productivity if you would like to use them plus an article on productive to wages--very insightful...

http://taxfoundation.org/sites/default/files/docs/fed_individual_rate_history_nominal.pdf

http://data.bls.gov/pdq/SurveyOutputServlet

http://www.epi.org/publication/understanding-the-historic-divergence-between-productivity-and-a-typical-workers-pay-why-it-matters-and-why-its-real/

PeterS

deleted

CDM Loc: Florida

Not reading my posts is rather explanatory as to why you consistently post comments non sequitur to mine. The questions I refer to are right here in this thread...you've been responding to some of those posts already. Your simply avoiding the questions or, responding as a Pavlovian knee jerk (like Mr. Breeze does) when you see my avatar...

"And we have more whites on welfare than blacks so if this was an attempt at social engineering it clearly didn't bring about the intended results"... Again you reduce it to the most vertical, literal context for convenience of diversion from the core subject. This is how the Huffington and Puffingon Post and other Leftist blogs deal with it. Of course it follows that there will be more white people on welfare...they are 70% of the total population. Had you read what I posted above somewhere very much in keeping with the topic of this thread by the way, Black Americans, the Census Bureau and Bureau of Labor Statistics, non editorial agencies both, show that on a per capita basis (racial component) more blacks participate in all forms of 'welfare' (an all encompassing word here) than other races. The reason for this is not, as you suggest in the failure of the 'welfare' system. I have consistently argued it's in the stupidity of socially engineering equality...

"As for ALL whites being racists--that's not the case, just white conservatives and now that Donald has removed the stigma of PC they seem even more so now." This is in and of itself exemplary of the very putrid Leftist racism that will keep the black man down for eternity. How ever will he make it on his own without Political Correctness??? Oh my.

There was never anything to 'clear up'...I understood you perfectly from the beginning.

CDM Loc: Florida

Again we are going to be forced to argue the semantics of the lateralization of your mis-reading of every utterance of an idea or opinion... Do you work for NBC? Are you completely incapable of thinking beyond the confines of your own skull?

And please, spare us the Al Gore crap. Al Gore and John Kerry together could not figure out how to screw a goat tied to a fence post and Crazy Bernie would want to know if it's free. They epitomize the absolute stupidity of the Leftist in America.

I clearly said “It requires only three elements to be properly used; an ongoing income stream, a repayment plan and, most importantly, intelligent management to execute the plan. “ I do not imply in any way shape or form that these elements exist or have ever existed. They clearly have not...and that's the problem. It's theoretical if that makes it easier for you. In practice it would become fact.

Incidental to your narrow view of what's possible, this country is very, very capable of productivity above 4% and has made runs at it many times in the past 70 years. It first and foremost requires adults working at real jobs, not flipping burgers for Obama at $15/hour or spending a trillion tax paid dollars for shovel ready jobs that never existed in the first place but were an excuse to funnel money to constituents.

When did the lop eared asshole raise taxes on the middle class? From the day he assumed the office. Again, as with all Leftists you equate tax's literally, with legislation, with the IRS. You will never grasp the concept of policy impact on cost of existing. Because of Leftist Democrat money policy alone, just that one aspect (and the Republican, the supposed opposition party refusal to do anything), the American middle class sees less income, zero returns on any attempt at savings, literally zero opportunity to work in high productivity manufacturing environments and greater costs of simple survival than ever before. More of them are out of work than ever. A trite answer could of course be Obama Care...but why go there? Or to environmental, energy or immigration policy... all of which under this president tax the middle class ability to survive.

And now for this post the Coup De Grace of Leftist stupidity; “Why are you linking the payment (the proper terminology here by the way is repayment) of debt to productivity. For that to happen it has to increase income, either business or personal, and than tax revenue needs to increase accordingly. Increases to productivity no longer go to wages so the only way for it to increase revenue is through taxes on business...” This is so f**ked up on so many levels that I can't face it. This is the mantra of Leftist Democrat economics. Barney Frank and Chris Dodd would be proud. But in all fairness, here's a hint;

How about government that shares in the consumption of the products of the economy? A government that is sized to perform only those tasks the government was constitutionally intended to perform and budgeted to spend no more than the aforementioned “consumption” revenue can provide? How about a government that does not tax but rather encourages (somewhat forcefully) independence in retirement and health care savings (Oh my God!!!! individual responsibility?). How about a government that does not waste, literally waste, $1 billion/ hour of it's pathetic existence?

Cut and paste all the bullshit you like. It does not change the reality that we have failed and need to find ourselves or parish. I firmly believe that so long as Leftist Democrats (in America) draw breath, so to speak, so long as a majority believe the rancorous bullshit you obviously believe, we have no chance to right this ship.