buffalo Loc: Texas

AuntiE, ak's are semi-automatic, not fully automatic, and they are legal.

peter11937 Loc: NYS

++The ORIGINAL AK-47 and its' MILITARY descendants today have a selector switch for semi or fully automatic fire, requiring a civilian owner to dance thru very difficult federal steps to own as per the 1934 gangster gun act. The crop of AK's on sale to qualified civilian buyers today are SEMI-automatic only. They are aeri really AK-47's as the Colt AR-15 is not a M-16, get it?

Blade_Runner Loc: DARK SIDE OF THE MOON

10-4. That's a roger on that. You need at least a Class 3 FFL to buy, own, or sell an automatic weapon.

peter11937 Loc: NYS

And I do not believe that the Obama Admin. has issued one ever in the last 7 years.

son of witless

[quote=straightUp]

son of witless wrote:
I feel you are making a mistake. If it was not this gun it would have been another. We are falling for the Obama ruse of blaming the gun.

There is no ruse and no one is blaming the gun. The whole idea of "blaming the gun" was conjured up by the opponents of gun control as a way to convince their own supporters that advocates of gun control are even more stupid than they are. The whole thing is ridiculous. I don't know ANY liberals who actually think guns are somehow animated things that go around killing people. We KNOW what the problem is... People are the problem. That being said, I agree with your point that if the assailant was determined enough he would have a found another way.

son of witless wrote:
If only this gun had not been stolen, the Officer would not have been shot. That is wrong thinking.

Well, it's theoretical... While I agreed that the assailant would have found another way if he was determined enough, I think it's wrong to automatically assume that he *IS* that determined.

One of the reasons why guns are so popular is because they're easy. You don't have to be in physical shape, you don't have to be clever or smart, you don't have exert yourself, women and children can be just as effective as any man and seriously... not to offend all you marksmen out there but it doesn't take THAT much skill to kill someone with a gun. Above and beyond everything else, you don't have to get close to your target... you can hide behind a rock or in a crowd or in car as it drives by. It's very possible that the assailant could have been too much of a coward to use any other kind of weapon.

son of witless wrote:

The criminal would have found another way to get a weapon and assault a cop.

...maybe, maybe not.

son of witless wrote:

I look at it, if only our weakling President had not allowed ISIS to grow and become an inspiration to idiots, this would not have happened.

The weakling president that gave us ISIS left office almost eight years ago and gun violence has been rampant in this country long before that.

The way I see it the best approach to curbing gun violence is to go directly to the source of the problem - the people... We should confirm a minimal level of intelligence BEFORE we anyone buy a firearm... if such a system were possible we could take ALL the guns off the illegal list but unfortunately it isn't. So that leaves us with the next best thing, putting limits on the guns.

So don't blame the advocates of gun control... blame the morons that ruined it for the rest of us by making gun control a necessity.

son of witless wrote:

It amazes me how many ISIS inspired killers do not blame Guantanamo.

Why would they? Guantanamo is a prison in Cuba, not something ISIS is particularly concerned with. If anything, the denial of human decency that Guantanamo is famous for set a precedence that ISIS is quite happy with.



was our declaration to the world that we since that's where Bush set the precedence for ignoring the Geneva Convention and any human sense of decency.
=========================================
Of course YOU are blaming the gun. The whole point of GUN CONTROL is to blame the GUN. If you are not blaming the GUN, why try to control it? That is why it is called GUN CONTROL!!!

The premise IS that if you take guns out of the hands of the general public, fewer will find their way into the wrong hands and all violence will go down.

THE problem with that logic is that you are disarming innocent people. WHEN they are attacked, not if, they cannot defend themselves.

As has been shown by the title of this post, THE CRIMINAL will still find a way to get his hands on a gun, even if he must steal it from the police themselves. AND as the Charlie Hebdo and the more recent Paris shootings have shown, even in a gun control Heaven, like Western Europe guns are always available to criminals.

ISIS is the bastard step child of your hero Obama. It is Al Queda reborn, re branded, and revitalized by a weakling president who will never understand that America's weakness is what enables her enemies to flourish. Bush had them defeated and contained. Those are facts!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

NOW lets us speak of Guantanamo!!!!!!!!!!!! Your MORON said that it inspires the terrorists and now you say it ain't true!!!!! Obama is letting the worst of the worst out of Prison. That should be proof of his insanity.

You and your hero should maybe get on the same page!@!

WTF are you speaking of decency???????????????? HUH!!!!!!!

ISIS are beheading, burning people alive, selling and raping little girls!!!! And you speak of decency? If any thing Bush did not go nearly far enough!!!!!!!!!!!

You have heard of the rapes and murders by Islamic Terrorists, right?????????????????????

straightUp Loc: California

So then you KNOW the government can NOT meet Bundy's demands. That precedent can NOT be set without compromising the integrity of the Constitution, so refusing to concede is NOT a choice for the president - it's a sworn duty. That is the only question I care about... Bundy and gang will loose, that isn't even a question and if they go down peacefully or under fire is not up to the president either... it's up to Bundy and gang... They can surrender at any time without a shot being fired. If they all die it will only be through their own fault.

straightUp Loc: California

What makes you think I don't know that? I was trying to make a point about the difference between firearms designed for domestic use and military use and WHY military grade weapons are banned. The AK-47 is the iconic example, which is why I used it... I keep forgetting that any time I mention a specific model, the gun enthusiasts that flock to these issues shift into this weird "geek mode" and start beating their chests as they recite statistics and dates.

I guess it's one way to side-step the issue.


Buff - AK-47's are manufactured as fully automatic and have to be converted to be semi-automatic and legal according to the law AuntiE referenced. ;)

straightUp Loc: California

Don't be an idiot... Guns are inanimate. People are ALWAYS the factor being controlled. It's called "gun control" because that's easier than calling it "control of which people can use what guns"


I think it's a sound theory.


I've owned guns since I was 11. In the 42 years since then I have NEVER been in a situation where I could have used them to defend myself despite having been confronted with violence several times. Each time I was confronted with violence I only had split seconds to react. I'm betting it's the same thing for at least 95% of the innocent victims of violent crime. I can buy the right to bear arms for the sake of insurgency should the government get tyrannical, but to answer crime... That's just the stupidest thing ever.


No shit, Sherlock.


Those are lies.


1. Bush and Cheney were already releasing prisoners from Guantanamo before Obama even came to office. The prisoners being released before and after Obama stepped in were found innocent and determined NOT to be a threat to the U.S.
2. Obama was suggesting that our treatment of prisoners in Guantanamo may inspire a reaction among terrorists and I agree. The point I was making earlier is that there is little indication that ISIS in particular really gives a shit.



Far enough with what? Destroying the regime that was keeping a lid on it? ISIS is the consequence of several things including the American vote for Bush. All those people getting their heads chopped off, all those little girls being rapped... None of that would have happened if the American people would have just done the right thing and kept that insipid worm out of office.


Who hasn't?

America Only Loc: From the right hand of God

Not true. There are many manufacturers of the AK-47 platform. They manufacture them as Semi and Full Auto, depending on where the orders are going to be sent and what company is going to make them. Some are never anything but Semi Auto and actually that would be the norm of what is made and sold in the USA.

buffalo Loc: Texas

I am fully aware of the law. Yes, certain firearms can be made to fire repeatedly by filing down X, Y, and Z, but not with any regularity or safety. And a gun that shoots repeatedly when you only intend it to shoot once isn't something that's going to be accurate enough to hit the target before the muzzle decides to try to hit a cloud or the ceiling.

Only an idiot would want a fully automatic AK, any of its variants, or any hand held large caliber weapon.

The other issue is that full auto goes through ammo like Obama goes through teleprompters. Well, maybe not that fast but considering a common 'high capacity' magazine holds 30 rounds and full auto fire can chuck out 650-700 rounds a minute, you're out of ammo in less than 3 seconds. Being that maybe the first round or two will be on target before the recoil throws you off, that's 28 rounds of 'noise' you just wasted.

Besides converting a gun to fully automatic is beyond the ability of the average gun owner. Anyone possessing the equipment, milling machine, drill press, etc is probably licensed.

Full auto is a boogey man, used by the media and anti-rights bigots to 'scare the white people' into thinking that gangs are walking around carrying mini-guns, mowing down entire playgrounds like Rambo or the Terminator. You cannot convert a semi-automatic into a fully automatic any easier than you can switch a car from stick to auto transmission. It requires tools, skills, and quite a bit of work to do to make a machine that is reliable enough to do what you require.

But as with ALL gun laws restricting ownership and what kind of firearms are legal or illegal, there are countless ways around them. For gun laws to work criminals have to obey them.

RWNJ

Some weapons are pretty accurate on full auto. There is an full auto 12 gauge shotgun that can be fired accurately with one hand. There is very little recoil. There is also a 9 millimeter assault rifle that has very little recoil. You still burn up the ammo, but these weapons are deadly accurate. I, for one, would not want to be on the receiving end of one.

son of witless

straightup ;

son of witless wrote:

Of course YOU are blaming the gun. The whole point of GUN CONTROL is to blame the GUN. If you are not blaming the GUN, why try to control it? That is why it is called GUN CONTROL!!!

Don't be an idiot... Guns are inanimate. People are ALWAYS the factor being controlled. It's called "gun control" because that's easier than calling it "control of which people can use what guns"

son of witless wrote:

The premise IS that if you take guns out of the hands of the general public, fewer will find their way into the wrong hands and all violence will go down.

I think it's a sound theory.

son of witless wrote:

THE problem with that logic is that you are disarming innocent people. WHEN they are attacked, not if, they cannot defend themselves.

I've owned guns since I was 11. In the 42 years since then I have NEVER been in a situation where I could have used them to defend myself despite having been confronted with violence several times. Each time I was confronted with violence I only had split seconds to react. I'm betting it's the same thing for at least 95% of the innocent victims of violent crime. I can buy the right to bear arms for the sake of insurgency should the government get tyrannical, but to answer crime... That's just the stupidest thing ever.

son of witless wrote:

As has been shown by the title of this post, THE CRIMINAL will still find a way to get his hands on a gun, even if he must steal it from the police themselves. AND as the Charlie Hebdo and the more recent Paris shootings have shown, even in a gun control Heaven, like Western Europe guns are always available to criminals.

No shit, Sherlock.

son of witless wrote:

ISIS is the bastard step child of your hero Obama. It is Al Queda reborn, re branded, and revitalized by a weakling president who will never understand that America's weakness is what enables her enemies to flourish. Bush had them defeated and contained. Those are facts!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Those are lies.

son of witless wrote:

NOW lets us speak of Guantanamo!!!!!!!!!!!! Your MORON said that it inspires the terrorists and now you say it ain't true!!!!! Obama is letting the worst of the worst out of Prison. That should be proof of his insanity.

1. Bush and Cheney were already releasing prisoners from Guantanamo before Obama even came to office. The prisoners being released before and after Obama stepped in were found innocent and determined NOT to be a threat to the U.S.
2. Obama was suggesting that our treatment of prisoners in Guantanamo may inspire a reaction among terrorists and I agree. The point I was making earlier is that there is little indication that ISIS in particular really gives a shit.


son of witless wrote:

ISIS are beheading, burning people alive, selling and raping little girls!!!! And you speak of decency? If any thing Bush did not go nearly far enough!!!!!!!!!!!

Far enough with what? Destroying the regime that was keeping a lid on it? ISIS is the consequence of several things including the American vote for Bush. All those people getting their heads chopped off, all those little girls being rapped... None of that would have happened if the American people would have just done the right thing and kept that insipid worm out of office.

son of witless wrote:

You have heard of the rapes and murders by Islamic Terrorists, right?????????????????????

Who hasn't?
======================================================-------------------------------------------------

Moi an idiot? Good thing I don't give a damn about your opinion of me. Gun Control is about controlling the people by restricting their freedom to own guns. Democrats are always about restricting freedoms. Far easier to control unarmed serfs than independent minded armed citizens.

Adding up your years I am just about your age. Your argument of guns being for insurrection and not for self defense is bass ackwards of most people on either side of gun control. You say you have never used your guns for self defense, yet you can see how useful they are for combating a tyrannical government.

You are far less likely to use them in an insurrection than you are for defending yourself from crime. I also have never used my firearms in anger. However, I will not give up that option. Like as of yet I have never used my life insurance, but I will not voluntarily hand it over to Mein Fuhrer Barry.

Now as for you Sherlock. The massacres in France prove that gun laws make them more likely. The French leaders are happy to allow their peons to be butchered like sheep. How would you like to be in that hall as calm murderers walk up and down the crowd shooting people? Would you beg for the lives of your daughters and wife and watch them get shot in the head before it was your time?????????????????????????????????? Well !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

If you survived and captured one of these animals, would you complain if somebody else slowly tortured them to death to get information about the rest of their co conspirators?

Those are not lies that ISIS is the product of your guy Obama ! ! ! ! He allowed them to grow. He retreated and created the power vacuum in Iraq. HE would not listen to HIS military advisers who begged him not to abandon our allies and not to allow Iran to get a foothold in Iraq.

That is truth ! ! ! The idiot that YOU put into the White House made the policy decisions that allowed the creation of what ISIS is today ! ! ! Well straightup you continue your fantasy and just keep retreating into denial.

Now for Guantanamo and releasing of prisoners. That you cannot see a difference between what Bush and Cheney did and what Obama did, demonstrates your rationalizing anything you can to defend this incompetent clown you inflicted on the rest of us good Americans.

It is extremely expensive to house terrorists at Guantanamo. You with me? So do you keep all of them there for life? Still with me? They are there because releasing them is dangerous. You are balancing two competing priorities. At some point unless they are guilty of murder you do have to release all of them. It is not an exact science. That is why Bush and Cheney released prisoners.

Now compare that to YOUR GUY ! ! He releases prisoners not when his lackeys determine it is finally safe. Noooooo ! ! ! YOUR GUY releases prisoners because he convinced a lot of weak minded voters that Guantanamo creates more terrorists. If this fraud does not then close Guantanamo one or two of his stronger minded followers might figure out they were lied to.

That regime which you trusted to keep a lid on Islamic rapists and murderers was itself committing rapes and murders, and would always be threatening it's neighbors. Perhaps you heard of when it conquered Kuwait?

straightUp Loc: California

And that's the problem... there are SO many idiots. And it's unfortunate but we can't always predict who the idiots are going to be, so we limit the firepower available to EVERYONE in an effort to minimize the damage capacity of the idiots among us. It's like everything else buff... from drugs to fireworks, products are restricted BECAUSE of idiots that ruin it for everyone else.


Yes, I know.


That isn't a guarantee.


Think about what you're saying here... The only reason why we don't see full auto on the streets is because it's illegal... otherwise, why would there even be a reason to convert semi to full?


That's why limiting available firepower is the best answer we have, because criminals don't obey laws. So instead of telling them they can't buy full auto, we take full auto off the market. See how that works?

peter11937 Loc: NYS

Some sanity here at last. If you think the AK on full auto is bad, try an M-14 A1 with the selector switch on full auto, that shoots the sky a lot! Filing down a sear might not give you what you think, tho, it might not fire at all.
Look at the news from the ME, those Mohammedans shoot the sky a whole hell of a lot. Saw one shooting a scoped AK but not using it.......Another was firing a HMG at an angle so high that it was useful only as indirect area fire......

There are places in NYC, like Brighton beach, where arms are available daily and nightly, to anyone with the money. Certainly there are like places in every major city in the USA. Not to mention casing the cops and isolated military armories are always vulnerable to theft or robbery.
Limiting access to firearms to honest people does nothing to prevent crime or criminal violence whatever.

buffalo Loc: Texas

I can assure you of one thing. IF fully automatic weapons were practical for criminals to use they would get their hands on them. They are not practical for several reasons. The amount of ammunition they expend in a very short time and accuracy for another. If this were not the case there would be a bigger supply of them. Albeit, illegal but non the less in more abundance. They are just not practical.